Who will be back for 23-24

[307bball]

That is pure hindsight - who knows. Your opinion is that we would have been better than last, but not first with Graham. Ok, I can see that. I can also see the dynamics changing SO much, that first could have still been in sight. The changes (TO THE TEAM) his presence makes when he is healthy and playing, are too many to mention here, including the 3 assholes not quitting, Reynolds not having to shoulder too much, etc., etc., etc.

Well...Is hindsight 20/20? Lol...just kidding. good discussion though.

In seriousness...I'm trying not to over-interpret as much as possible. As you point out...The addition of a healthy Graham is pretty huge...he's definitely not a minor contributor. This is the epitome of message board 'what-if-ism". Again...you have to squint pretty hard to look at last years squad and add Graham and put them on the level of SDSU. The only "if" i'm considering is the "if" of Ike being healthy. That means you still get all the negatives of Reynolds injuries and the team chemistry being terrible until the transfers left. That "if" doesn't put us into the top half of the MWC. Now, having Graham healthy would change a lot of other stuff positively so that is why I put the over under on where they would have finished at the top half/bottom half line. Sounds like you would take the over....I think I agree....The one caveat being ... we would have had to ride him like a rented mule and as tough as he is...he is seeming to be injury prone. As much as Maldo looked worn down towards the end of last year and the year before that...Graham would have been the same.

Maybe I'm biased by the way this season went down but, to me, this team was just bad. As good as Graham is, if you add him in, he's a stellar player on an otherwise bad team unless his addition is dramatically transformative. It's not like with Ike out we merely took a step back to the middle of the conference pack...we were the worst, period. The MWC is not just loaded with talent but the top teams will definitely take you out of what you want to do if you can only do one thing. Some version of a two man game with Maldo and Ike would have been a lot of fun to watch and would have won more for sure though. Given what the transfers turned out to be, both in talent and in temperament, even with Ike in...this season's high expectations were destined to be unrealistic.

[307bball]

Point of fact: Dusell did just about play 25 minutes per game... Average of 26.

I knew you would take that out of context. He averaged 34 minutes per game over the last 10.

I agree with the rest of your post. Rising tide and all of that. But I don't want to minimize what those guys are capable of if put into the correct role.

Really not trying to mislead here.

Nothing out of context at all here...he played too many minutes a game...we both agree on that. He played more late in the season because there was literally nobody else to play. On a good team X should be somewhere around whatever he averaged before that last ten game stretch.

The bit about guys doing better when their role is matched to their talent level is crucial.

[307bball]

We really needed Reynolds, damn.

Disagree. An undersized, nonathletic scoring guard should be pretty easy to come by. I will bet Reynolds makes a lateral move at best as a result of his entering the portal. And throw in the fact he didn't want to be here... see ya. And his defense sucked. Won't be missed.

I wish we had other 20 point scorers waiting in the wings but we don't. This transfer portal stuff is not good for us. Whether it's Marcus Williams or Noah Reynolds...it doesn't matter if they transfer and we never hear from them again....while they were here, they balled out and it makes us worse when those guys leave. In general, I chalk this up to kids getting bad advice. It's very hard to land in a good spot in college athletics...the vast majority will never play professionally and that includes guys who could have stellar careers at Wyoming. I think the grass is almost never greener but that will not stop guys from trying.

[SDPokeFan]

All this transfer crap makes it really hard to even get interested in the team. You don't know who is going to be on the team from one minute to the next. If Graham leaves this team may not win a game next year.

[Itsux2beaewe]

Ike automatically makes us a top 3 team. He PROVED it last year.

Agreed, if we can find a supporting cast. The loss of Jeff-threes was huge. We didn’t replace him with anyone close to his skills, rebounding one.

I agree also, the time the guys had to play without resting hurt us and made a mediocre team - minus Ike - worse. Pretty tough to play when you are tired, the complaint of a sub standard defense being evident.

[307bball]

Ike automatically makes us a top 3 team. He PROVED it last year.

Agreed, if we can find a supporting cast. The loss of Jeff-threes was huge. We didn’t replace him with anyone close to his skills, rebounding one.

I agree also, the time the guys had to play without resting hurt us and made a mediocre team - minus Ike - worse. Pretty tough to play when you are tired, the complaint of a sub standard defense being evident.

Jeff-threes is a great nickname!... How did I miss that!

[rich22]

Agreed, if we can find a supporting cast. The loss of Jeff-threes was huge. We didn’t replace him with anyone close to his skills, rebounding one.

I agree also, the time the guys had to play without resting hurt us and made a mediocre team - minus Ike - worse. Pretty tough to play when you are tired, the complaint of a sub standard defense being evident.

Jeff-threes is a great nickname!... How did I miss that!

Love that nickname!

I think we have the supporting cast already in place. I know I might be in the minority but I thought we were closer to a 3rd or 4th place finish in conference this year than we showed. Especially after the Cali exodus. That would have had us in the NCAA's or at least the NIT. There was a stretch before and during the Cali exodus that we struggled a lot but other than that we played ok. Let me explain my reasoning.

SDSU was crazy athletic this year as usual and we came within 5 at home of them. We played Drake tough and lost by 5. We played St. Mary's to 12. We played 8 or 9 teams that are in the NCAA tournament and then we played Boston College, Santa Clara and New Mexico as well. Those last 3 beat some good teams this year. BC beat Virginia I believe and Santa Clara beat Boise and gave Gonzaga all they could handle in a 3 point loss. IMO we were 1 strong big man that can defend the post, score in the post and protect the rim away from finishing 3rd or 4th and at least going to the NIT. Ike provides all of that.

The jump that Oden made this year was pretty big by the end of the year. Watching last year he couldn't dribble drive unless he was wide open. He was finally handling the ball well enough to penetrate the defense and not settling for 3's all of the time. He is only going to get better. DuSell is my favorite player because he plays smart defense and hits huge shots. I felt his minutes at the beginning of the year needed to be higher and then his minutes got to high by the end of the year and he was tired. haha. I have really enjoyed watching Wenzel develop toughness this year. He is twice the player now than he was at the beginning of last year. He was gritty on rebounds this year, especially at the end of the year. I really liked how the Powell kid looked. I think a year in a college weight room will help him tremendously. He has something that our big men haven't had since Cook Jr and Nance Jr and that is he can rise up and dunk on people. He just needs strength and about 20 to 30 lbs. I think him coming off the bench to spell Ike will be perfect for his development next year.

I think we need 1 or 2 high end players and then we need depth. We don't need 6 new guys that come in expecting to play 30 min a game like this year and cause chemistry issues. We need some Freshman that were like DuSell and Oden. Athletic and gifted but willing to come off the bench and contribute 15 min a game and work their asses off. I really feel with a starting line up of DuSell, Oden, Wenzel, Ike and a point guard that is a transfer, we could do some things. With a Bench of Powell, 3 Freshman that are ready to compete (DuSell, Oden types). 1 project Freshman that we take a gamble on that is a local kid. Think the Daum kid from South Dakota a few years back that turned into an amazing player. Maybe we already have that role filled in Talich? Last but not least 1 to 2 JC guys, I think Xavier McCord from LCCC would fit nicely here. That would be 1 to 2 Transfers, 4 Freshman and 1 to 2 JC guys. I think we have 7 spots to fill this year.

That is what I would do. I am actually excited for next year. If Ike comes back and Oden returns then I think we could get back to being pretty good next year.

[doreno5]

The big ifs are is whether Ike comes back and how will the injury and time off affect his play? Is there any news on how his rehab is going?

[307bball]

Jeff-threes is a great nickname!... How did I miss that!

Love that nickname!

I think we have the supporting cast already in place. I know I might be in the minority but I thought we were closer to a 3rd or 4th place finish in conference this year than we showed. Especially after the Cali exodus. That would have had us in the NCAA's or at least the NIT. There was a stretch before and during the Cali exodus that we struggled a lot but other than that we played ok. Let me explain my reasoning.

SDSU was crazy athletic this year as usual and we came within 5 at home of them. We played Drake tough and lost by 5. We played St. Mary's to 12. We played 8 or 9 teams that are in the NCAA tournament and then we played Boston College, Santa Clara and New Mexico as well. Those last 3 beat some good teams this year. BC beat Virginia I believe and Santa Clara beat Boise and gave Gonzaga all they could handle in a 3 point loss. IMO we were 1 strong big man that can defend the post, score in the post and protect the rim away from finishing 3rd or 4th and at least going to the NIT. Ike provides all of that.

The jump that Oden made this year was pretty big by the end of the year. Watching last year he couldn't dribble drive unless he was wide open. He was finally handling the ball well enough to penetrate the defense and not settling for 3's all of the time. He is only going to get better. DuSell is my favorite player because he plays smart defense and hits huge shots. I felt his minutes at the beginning of the year needed to be higher and then his minutes got to high by the end of the year and he was tired. haha. I have really enjoyed watching Wenzel develop toughness this year. He is twice the player now than he was at the beginning of last year. He was gritty on rebounds this year, especially at the end of the year. I really liked how the Powell kid looked. I think a year in a college weight room will help him tremendously. He has something that our big men haven't had since Cook Jr and Nance Jr and that is he can rise up and dunk on people. He just needs strength and about 20 to 30 lbs. I think him coming off the bench to spell Ike will be perfect for his development next year.

I think we need 1 or 2 high end players and then we need depth. We don't need 6 new guys that come in expecting to play 30 min a game like this year and cause chemistry issues. We need some Freshman that were like DuSell and Oden. Athletic and gifted but willing to come off the bench and contribute 15 min a game and work their asses off. I really feel with a starting line up of DuSell, Oden, Wenzel, Ike and a point guard that is a transfer, we could do some things. With a Bench of Powell, 3 Freshman that are ready to compete (DuSell, Oden types). 1 project Freshman that we take a gamble on that is a local kid. Think the Daum kid from South Dakota a few years back that turned into an amazing player. Maybe we already have that role filled in Talich? Last but not least 1 to 2 JC guys, I think Xavier McCord from LCCC would fit nicely here. That would be 1 to 2 Transfers, 4 Freshman and 1 to 2 JC guys. I think we have 7 spots to fill this year.

That is what I would do. I am actually excited for next year. If Ike comes back and Oden returns then I think we could get back to being pretty good next year.

I like your analysis....it is more rosy than mine, particularly in how close you think we were to the top third of the conference, but I agree w/you that there is some upside to getting the guys you mentioned into a position to succeed.

I would say that, at the end of the season, you are who your record says you are....as said by Bill Parcells. When a full season goes by it is tough for me to look at a last place team and find too many positives. There are so many "ifs" in a sports season but if the goal is to win a conference title ...that has to become the yardstick by which it gets measured. Linder got his can handed to him this year...there is no way around that. The soup that is a successful college basketball team is complex and his decisions before and during the season did not work out. Will he get better and grow as a coach?...I bet he will (at least I'm more confident in him than our football coach). It can always feel like you are a lot closer to success in basketball because you don't need so many top guys to be really good. I actually think that Graham is as good as advertised but the guys he's playing with need to step up. Look at the best team of Shyatt's tenure. Yes they had Nance and Adams but they were successful because Cooke, Grabau, Hankerson, and McManamen stepped up in the moments that they needed to. I have not seen that from Wenzel, Oden, or X. At least not to the level it will take to win a conference title ... regular season or tournament.

[PokeTransplant]

Oden just hit the portal.....

[Plainsman87]

Here’s my hope for recruiting the right kids. The message sent by the coaching staff is: “We don’t care who you are, freshman of the year? Power 5 recruit? If you’re not coming here to work hard and play defense, we can’t use you. If you are coming to do those things, we’ll help you blossom.”

The kids to whom that resonates are the kids you truly want. Noah Reynolds was one of those kids. Dude had no offers, but he truly grew as a player here. It’s a mistake for him to move on from that, but he’s an example of what this staff can do. I hope they can find 3-4 kids like that this off-season. No reason to think they can’t.

[LanderPoke]

Oden just hit the portal.....

Unreal. We are in complete rebuild mode. What the heck happened this season?

[McPeachy]

Effing Ae. May as well flush and restart the whole damn thing now. At what point will I completely lose my interest in college athletics...that answer may be coming soon.

[WYO1016]

Time to take this season out back and put it out of its misery. Unreal how bad this year has turned out.

[WYO1016]

To answer the original question of who will be back (as of 3/14 at 3:17pm):

DuSell
Foster
Ike
Powell
Roberson (walk-on)
Talich (walk-on)
Wenzel

[SDPokeFan]

Effing Ae. May as well flush and restart the whole damn thing now. At what point will I completely lose my interest in college athletics...that answer may be coming soon.

I'm with you. This portal poop is killing my interest in college athletics.

[LawPoke]

To answer the original question of who will be back (as of 3/14 at 3:17pm):

DuSell
Foster
Ike
Powell
Roberson (walk-on)
Talich (walk-on)
Wenzel

Those who stay will be...worn out.

[Pokes4L]

Effing Ae. May as well flush and restart the whole damn thing now. At what point will I completely lose my interest in college athletics...that answer may be coming soon.

I'm with you. This portal poop is killing my interest in college athletics.

Don’t think it’s fair to blame the portal… i think if you find the right kids they will stay. Look at the top programs… not many guys leaving those spots.

[Wyovanian]

I'm with you. This portal poop is killing my interest in college athletics.

Don’t think it’s fair to blame the portal… i think if you find the right kids they will stay. Look at the top programs… not many guys leaving those spots.

File under "N" for "No sh-t Captain Obvious".

[Wyovanian]

Effing Ae. May as well flush and restart the whole damn thing now. At what point will I completely lose my interest in college athletics...that answer may be coming soon.

Still early. As more results like Marcus Williams' career show themselves, there's simply going to be a lot more caution exercised... I agree, for now, it sucks, but at this point it's like trying to measure fallout levels six hours after detonation- it's going to be high, to the surprise of no one. Give it some time...