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Re: It's time: The Vigen Apology Thread
Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:13 pm
by laxwyo
ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:56 am
It will be interesting to watch this weekend. I'm betting we go back to a Vigen-like offense for the rest of the season.
We will definitely be running 9/10 times now come hell or high water we’re establishing the run.
Bohl seems to think establishing the run will open the pass but the problem is the pass is already open because teams just stack the box. We just don’t throw very well.
Re: It's time: The Vigen Apology Thread
Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:33 am
by OrediggerPoke
laxwyo wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:13 pm
ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:56 am
It will be interesting to watch this weekend. I'm betting we go back to a Vigen-like offense for the rest of the season.
We will definitely be running 9/10 times now come hell or high water we’re establishing the run.
Bohl seems to think establishing the run will open the pass but the problem is the pass is already open because teams just stack the box. We just don’t throw very well.
I think you're right.
To be honest, I wish we would have run 9/10 times against Fresno...we might have won that game the way the defense played. Although, it is a bit hard to monday morning QB and criticize the gameplan to throw the ball because Fresno's offense had been so prolific and would have been unrealistic before the game to think our defense would basically shut out Fresno's offense.
Re: It's time: The Vigen Apology Thread
Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:22 am
by flyfishwyo
OrediggerPoke wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:33 am
laxwyo wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:13 pm
ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:56 am
It will be interesting to watch this weekend. I'm betting we go back to a Vigen-like offense for the rest of the season.
We will definitely be running 9/10 times now come hell or high water we’re establishing the run.
Bohl seems to think establishing the run will open the pass but the problem is the pass is already open because teams just stack the box. We just don’t throw very well.
I think you're right.
To be honest, I wish we would have run 9/10 times against Fresno...we might have won that game the way the defense played. Although, it is a bit hard to monday morning QB and criticize the gameplan to throw the ball because Fresno's offense had been so prolific and would have been unrealistic before the game to think our defense would basically shut out Fresno's offense.
All three comments are spot-on. I've been mostly impressed with the play calling this year. BIG improvement over previous years. I haven't been impressed with our QB play the last few games. And the OLine play has been inconsistent.
Re: It's time: The Vigen Apology Thread
Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:24 am
by McPeachy
flyfishwyo wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:22 am
OrediggerPoke wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:33 am
laxwyo wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:13 pm
ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:56 am
It will be interesting to watch this weekend. I'm betting we go back to a Vigen-like offense for the rest of the season.
We will definitely be running 9/10 times now come hell or high water we’re establishing the run.
Bohl seems to think establishing the run will open the pass but the problem is the pass is already open because teams just stack the box. We just don’t throw very well.
I think you're right.
To be honest, I wish we would have run 9/10 times against Fresno...we might have won that game the way the defense played. Although, it is a bit hard to monday morning QB and criticize the gameplan to throw the ball because Fresno's offense had been so prolific and would have been unrealistic before the game to think our defense would basically shut out Fresno's offense.
All three comments are spot-on. I've been mostly impressed with the play calling this year. BIG improvement over previous years. I haven't been impressed with our QB play the last few games. And the OLine play has been inconsistent.
Agree...but as a coach, don't you have to set up your style of play (play calling) that best fits your team / athletes? For that, I give our new OC a big fat f-word F.
Re: It's time: The Vigen Apology Thread
Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:25 pm
by flyfishwyo
McPeachy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:24 am
flyfishwyo wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:22 am
OrediggerPoke wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:33 am
laxwyo wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:13 pm
ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:56 am
It will be interesting to watch this weekend. I'm betting we go back to a Vigen-like offense for the rest of the season.
We will definitely be running 9/10 times now come hell or high water we’re establishing the run.
Bohl seems to think establishing the run will open the pass but the problem is the pass is already open because teams just stack the box. We just don’t throw very well.
I think you're right.
To be honest, I wish we would have run 9/10 times against Fresno...we might have won that game the way the defense played. Although, it is a bit hard to monday morning QB and criticize the gameplan to throw the ball because Fresno's offense had been so prolific and would have been unrealistic before the game to think our defense would basically shut out Fresno's offense.
All three comments are spot-on. I've been mostly impressed with the play calling this year. BIG improvement over previous years. I haven't been impressed with our QB play the last few games. And the OLine play has been inconsistent.
Agree...but as a coach, don't you have to set up your style of play (play calling) that best fits your team / athletes? For that, I give our new OC a big fat f##k[#] F.
He did. And it worked pretty well until our starting QB started having accuracy and decision problems. Now we're going to be run-heavy until the QB room starts playing better.
Re: It's time: The Vigen Apology Thread
Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:40 pm
by laxwyo
flyfishwyo wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:25 pm
McPeachy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:24 am
flyfishwyo wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:22 am
OrediggerPoke wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:33 am
laxwyo wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:13 pm
ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:56 am
It will be interesting to watch this weekend. I'm betting we go back to a Vigen-like offense for the rest of the season.
We will definitely be running 9/10 times now come hell or high water we’re establishing the run.
Bohl seems to think establishing the run will open the pass but the problem is the pass is already open because teams just stack the box. We just don’t throw very well.
I think you're right.
To be honest, I wish we would have run 9/10 times against Fresno...we might have won that game the way the defense played. Although, it is a bit hard to monday morning QB and criticize the gameplan to throw the ball because Fresno's offense had been so prolific and would have been unrealistic before the game to think our defense would basically shut out Fresno's offense.
All three comments are spot-on. I've been mostly impressed with the play calling this year. BIG improvement over previous years. I haven't been impressed with our QB play the last few games. And the OLine play has been inconsistent.
Agree...but as a coach, don't you have to set up your style of play (play calling) that best fits your team / athletes? For that, I give our new OC a big fat f##k[#] F.
He did. And it worked pretty well until our starting QB started having accuracy and decision problems. Now we're going to be run-heavy until the QB room starts playing better.
Honestly, we’re fairly lucky that Chambers doesn’t have more INTs. In some of the better thrown games he has made pretty questionable reads and forced into heavy coverage.
Re: It's time: The Vigen Apology Thread
Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:57 am
by ragtimejoe1
Offense looks worse and more dysfunctional than when Vigen was here. No question.
Bohl is obviously doing something wrong. This is after 1 year of "re-engineering the offense" which tells you Bohl has no idea how to engineer an offense. This might be the worst the offense has been or nearly (maybe not as bad as first 2 years).
Again, my apologies Mr. Vigen.
Re: It's time: The Vigen Apology Thread
Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:17 am
by OrediggerPoke
ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:57 am
Offense looks worse and more dysfunctional than when Vigen was here. No question.
Bohl is obviously doing something wrong. This is after 1 year of "re-engineering the offense" which tells you Bohl has no idea how to engineer an offense. This might be the worst the offense has been or nearly (maybe not as bad as first 2 years).
Again, my apologies Mr. Vigen.
Vigen is 7-1 at Montana State. It appears he knew very well the limitations of his QBs at Wyoming and designed an offense to give us the best chance. The new offense of letting Chambers throw the ball down the field 15 times a game clearly does not work with a QB that lacks accuracy and stares down the receivers.
Re: It's time: The Vigen Apology Thread
Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:55 am
by fromolwyoming
I refuse. Each of those QBs we have, had Vigen as their QB coach up until this year. And we know going back to at least Josh Allen, that he was horrific as a QB coach.
Re: It's time: The Vigen Apology Thread
Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:33 am
by bladerunnr
fromolwyoming wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:55 am
I refuse. Each of those QBs we have, had Vigen as their QB coach up until this year. And we know going back to at least Josh Allen, that he was horrific as a QB coach.
I don't understand this notion that a coach is going to turn a poor to mediocre qb into a good one. Where else does this happen? Jim Harbaugh has been at Michigan for years and has had terrible qbs. Clemson loses Trevor Lawrence and now they can't score. Should they fire the coach? The LSU coach looked like a genius when he had Joe Burrow. Now, just 2 years later and their letting him go. You can't turn a 5 minute miler into a 4 minute miler. You might get some improvement out of him but he is what he is. I'm not aware of a single program in this country that "develops" qbs. It's a myth in the minds of the posters on this board, evidently.
Re: It's time: The Vigen Apology Thread
Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:28 am
by 307bball
bladerunnr wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:33 am
fromolwyoming wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:55 am
I refuse. Each of those QBs we have, had Vigen as their QB coach up until this year. And we know going back to at least Josh Allen, that he was horrific as a QB coach.
I don't understand this notion that a coach is going to turn a poor to mediocre qb into a good one. Where else does this happen? Jim Harbaugh has been at Michigan for years and has had terrible qbs. Clemson loses Trevor Lawrence and now they can't score. Should they fire the coach? The LSU coach looked like a genius when he had Joe Burrow. Now, just 2 years later and their letting him go. You can't turn a 5 minute miler into a 4 minute miler. You might get some improvement out of him but he is what he is. I'm not aware of a single program in this country that "develops" qbs. It's a myth in the minds of the posters on this board, evidently.
Agree... College OC is there to scheme and create mismatches as best they can. Specific position coaches are there to develop techniques but at the end of the day .... Individual talent and drive is the ultimate dividing line.
Re: It's time: The Vigen Apology Thread
Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:14 pm
by laxwyo
bladerunnr wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:33 am
fromolwyoming wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:55 am
I refuse. Each of those QBs we have, had Vigen as their QB coach up until this year. And we know going back to at least Josh Allen, that he was horrific as a QB coach.
I don't understand this notion that a coach is going to turn a poor to mediocre qb into a good one. Where else does this happen? Jim Harbaugh has been at Michigan for years and has had terrible qbs. Clemson loses Trevor Lawrence and now they can't score. Should they fire the coach? The LSU coach looked like a genius when he had Joe Burrow. Now, just 2 years later and their letting him go. You can't turn a 5 minute miler into a 4 minute miler. You might get some improvement out of him but he is what he is. I'm not aware of a single program in this country that "develops" qbs. It's a myth in the minds of the posters on this board, evidently.
I tend to agree with this. When the OC schemed around Sean’s talents we could win. Minimize throwing and add qb runs to compliment our traditional run game. Try to make Sean something he’s not and it’s getting ugly
Re: It's time: The Vigen Apology Thread
Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:08 pm
by fromolwyoming
bladerunnr wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:33 am
fromolwyoming wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:55 am
I refuse. Each of those QBs we have, had Vigen as their QB coach up until this year. And we know going back to at least Josh Allen, that he was horrific as a QB coach.
I don't understand this notion that a coach is going to turn a poor to mediocre qb into a good one. Where else does this happen? Jim Harbaugh has been at Michigan for years and has had terrible qbs. Clemson loses Trevor Lawrence and now they can't score. Should they fire the coach? The LSU coach looked like a genius when he had Joe Burrow. Now, just 2 years later and their letting him go. You can't turn a 5 minute miler into a 4 minute miler. You might get some improvement out of him but he is what he is. I'm not aware of a single program in this country that "develops" qbs. It's a myth in the minds of the posters on this board, evidently.
Once again, using Josh, his footwork his entire time here was a mess. His progressions were awful. He played hero ball here, even at times when it was detrimental (forcing the ball, not getting rid of it out of bounds, etc). It took 2 years with actual QB coaches, not Vigen, to fix his footwork, go through his progressions, and so much more. Yes, he was already very talented, but his coaching from Vigen, outside of the playbook, was nothing.
Re: It's time: The Vigen Apology Thread
Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:17 pm
by LanderPoke
Vigen is a huge reason we’re in this mess. Thanks for nothing, Vigen. Worst QBs coach of all time
Re: It's time: The Vigen Apology Thread
Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:59 pm
by Poke in New England
bladerunnr wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:33 am
fromolwyoming wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:55 am
I refuse. Each of those QBs we have, had Vigen as their QB coach up until this year. And we know going back to at least Josh Allen, that he was horrific as a QB coach.
I don't understand this notion that a coach is going to turn a poor to mediocre qb into a good one. Where else does this happen? Jim Harbaugh has been at Michigan for years and has had terrible qbs. Clemson loses Trevor Lawrence and now they can't score. Should they fire the coach? The LSU coach looked like a genius when he had Joe Burrow. Now, just 2 years later and their letting him go. You can't turn a 5 minute miler into a 4 minute miler. You might get some improvement out of him but he is what he is. I'm not aware of a single program in this country that "develops" qbs. It's a myth in the minds of the posters on this board, evidently.
Don't buy this for a second. Did you listen to the cut rate commentator on the stadium network breaking down our QB play? The short version is that they are unable to read a defense and move through progressions. There is an above the shoulders aspect to this game that is coached, 100%.