Coach Glenn

[WYCowboy]

This message is for Coach Glenn: Straighten out your coaching staff and this team or start packing your bags and I'm not talking about a recruiting trip, I'm talking about a permanent vacation. Actually, I think it's too late because I think a large number of contributors and fans have already left. Five years and this does not cut it.

[Kansan Cowboy!]

You are the type of fan I wonder about. Seriously! Here's something you really need to study up on. It's one word that packs a pretty sophisticated punch, it's "Patience".
Did you know that Frank Beamer at Vir. Tech started off worse than Joe Glenn. Yep, but most fans and the athletic department stayed with him. Now look at what he's done. Look at what New mexico did and is in the proccess of doing with Rocky Long. I even bet West Virginia is still kicking themselves in the foot for getting rid of Bobby Bowden.
Our program will never, ever get better if we change out coaches every 3 to 5 years. Mark my words. Wyoming will stay like this longer.
Kids want to be recruited by programs that are set in stone. Not shaky programs where the coach that recruits them has a slim chance to be their when they hit their senior year.
Seriously look at where we've come from since 2000.
I hate when people expect an instant miracle. And when I say instant I mean 3 to 5 years.
Glenn has 65% resurrected this football program back to where it needs to be. Some fans don't seem to understand that bringing a program up from rock bottom takes time. They just want the W's right now! And if they don't get it, they freak on the coach or players. Think of it this way, you're the fan that rants to get rid of coaches. Did you ever think that you and the media (like the one from Chey. who tried to slam Glenn for his actions during the UU game) are the reasons that we are not so good right now? When the two of you start complaining ,thats when we have to hit the coaching carousel again. And who will we get then, another D-1AA coach? Is that what you want? I surprised that you complain anyway, it's not like were going 1-10 or 2-10 again.
But I love how I can watch a sellout at every home game go to Notre Dame, even during this aweful year their having. Sellout's! You just stay home and compalin about going 6-6! Pretty Sad. And the sad thing is , is none of the fans from ND want to get rid of their coach. The media sometimes thinks otherwise, but let's see, when have they ever been right? The media can't say much when a team is going 2-9 and they are selling out every home game.
Now having said this, this subject has nothing to do with Joe Glenn, it has to do with you "so called fans" that just complain when the going get's tough. Get real! Either keep your head up and cheer on you team to victory or loss, or go home and find a new team! I'm sick of half way hearted fans.
We still have one game left. I'm going for 6-6. And yeah I'll still be proud of our guys.

[tdt25]

Thank you kansan cowboy, I could not have said it better myself. Since this is my first post, hello to all.
As stated above, it is amazing how quickly people forget our very recent football past. We only have to go back 4 years, Wyoming was coming off 3 years of 1-10 to 2-10 football seasons. Perhaps the worst 3 year stretch in all of Wyoming football´s history. 4 years ago people would have killed to have the opportunity to become bowl eligible in 3 out of 4 years, just the chance to be playing for it. Back then Wyoming´s season was done after the first 5 games.
A middle-tier non-BCS school cannot survive changing its coach every 3-5 years. Big name schools can survive a coaching carousel every year based purely on their reputation and conferences, but at this level you need to build consistency and have a solid foundation to have success. Nobody is perfect but at least Glenn has attempted to reach out to the people of Wyoming, people forget the coldheartedness of coaches like Joe Tiller and Dana Dimel.
Rome wasn´t built in a day, just think, if you had asked any Cowboy fan 4 years ago that if in 4 years Wyoming would have the opportunity to play for a chance to become bowl eligible EVERY single one of you would have said yes in an instant. And here we are 4 year later, playing for the chance to become bowl eligible and we are complaining.

[tttgowyo]

Thank you kansan cowboy, I could not have said it better myself. Since this is my first post, hello to all.
As stated above, it is amazing how quickly people forget our very recent football past. We only have to go back 4 years, Wyoming was coming off 3 years of 1-10 to 2-10 football seasons. Perhaps the worst 3 year stretch in all of Wyoming football´s history. 4 years ago people would have killed to have the opportunity to become bowl eligible in 3 out of 4 years, just the chance to be playing for it. Back then Wyoming´s season was done after the first 5 games.
A middle-tier non-BCS school cannot survive changing its coach every 3-5 years. Big name schools can survive a coaching carousel every year based purely on their reputation and conferences, but at this level you need to build consistency and have a solid foundation to have success. Nobody is perfect but at least Glenn has attempted to reach out to the people of Wyoming, people forget the coldheartedness of coaches like Joe Tiller and Dana Dimel.
Rome wasn´t built in a day, just think, if you had asked any Cowboy fan 4 years ago that if in 4 years Wyoming would have the opportunity to play for a chance to become bowl eligible EVERY single one of you would have said yes in an instant. And here we are 4 year later, playing for the chance to become bowl eligible and we are complaining.

I agree with both of you, I would HATE to see Joe Glenn go. It would set us back 5 steps. I think he fits our program perfectly. The Utah game showed me (again) how much passion he has for Wyoming and for winning with class. I have been frustrated this year as well, but not because of Glenn. It is frustrating when we have the talent we had this year and just couldn't put it all together. Especially the Air Force and SDSU game, we let those slip away. I don't mind losing to Boise on the blue turf, or losing to two really good teams in Utah, I just fell victim to getting all caught up in the great week one game and expecting a 10-2 season. That was a bit premature, obviously. We have made strides, well maybe more like baby steps with our program in the Glenn era, but he has improved it no question. I think he needs to look for a new OC because Cockhill is making everyone look bad. Hopefully Sween will work out his issues with turnovers, and our O-line will be another year older. We are losing some great players this year, but we should have a better year next year. All I ask from Glenn is improvement, keep climbing the ladder. We SHOULD finish 6-6 which is the same as last year. He is well payed and when you are in that position, the fans can and will expect a ton from you. I am nowhere near saying that it is time for him to go. We need to get behind him and fill the seats. Just keep improving... Now let's figure out how to keep the boot! BEAT the SHEEP!!!

[WYCowboy]

Kansas and the rest of you too, yes, I know about the Big Man at Kansas and some of the others that have turned their programs around, but I have been onboard with this Wyoming football program longer than most people on this board have been alive. This coaching staff we have now have serious problems that are glaring and Coach Glenn does not want to make any changes because of his loyalty to his friends. I saw maybe three plays on offense yesterday that showed any hint of what I would call good play calling. There are two offensive coaches and one special teams coach on this staff that need to be replaced. Cockhill can not coach or develop quarterbacks - there is no improvement, just regression. Offensive play calling is atrocious. Our OL has been the worst in the conference for the last five years. Maybe this has more to do with recruiting, but that is a big part of their job too. Our running backs have not been taught how to block for pass protection. Our quarterback has to run for his life on every pass play - no wonder he throws so many interceptions. Germer is not getting it done here. Knutson may be a good linebacker coach, but he doesn't know squat about coaching special teams. Why is Marsh still back there receiving punts and kickoffs? He is a much better pass receiver. Our coverage is terrible on special teams. Gloss it over all you want, but it is Glenn's responsibity and he is not handling it. He is a great ambassador for UW, but I am not impressed with his coaching abilities at this stage of the game.

[J-Rod]

Joe Glenn
2003 - 4-8
2004 - 7-5
2005 - 4-7
2006 - 6-6
2007 - 5-6

So what can you really expect? In 5 years what have we gained? This season is not the 1st time we have had a 2nd half of the season let down, I must agree its tough to see any coach coming in and just bringing 10 win season immediately. Highly unlikely. But at the same time is it realistic to think we will get better? Maybe we will without a few certain coaches but what do you do if there are no improvements???? Wyoming's at a crossroads. They can keep Glenn, possibly giving him a chance to bring the program up, or he could continue to bring average seasons, or they could make a big gamble and get a new coach. Few know how to recruit players to Wyoming correctly, its not an easy business. IMO I say give him 2 more seasons WITHOUT Coach Bobby, if there are no improvements its time to move on.

[Kansan Cowboy!]

Look at what he's done. He came down here and started working right away. Look at what he came into. We had no talent on this team when he came. He's brought in some good recruits in his era, not great, but good.But when you're recovering from the abysmal 5-29 three years previous, you probably have a hard time trying to sell your school and program to recruits, but he's managed to do this. And to be honest he had better recruits at Montana which made for a better team. Every year our recruiting gets a little better, and soon we'll be just as good.
Also, we're a young team. A soph. QB, two jr RB's. This is the first year for most of our linemen , Off/Def. Most all of our wideout's are either young or inexperienced. ANd it's the same for our DB's What do you expect? A miracle season?
And I wouldn't say he lost the backing with the fans, because this was the best avg fans per game we've had since he's been here. Avergae: 22,023. That's almost as good as the Paul Roach era. All Glenn has lost is your respect, because you are to hard to please.
You remind me of a fan who wouldn't be happy unless Wyoming went 13-0, and even then, you would probably find something to complain about. Seriously you need to find the positives, see where we are today, and hope we pull out a better tomorrow.
And I was born and raised in Wyoming, just because I live in Kansas now doesn't make me any less of a fan now.

[MrTitleist]

My turn to weigh in.

Joe Glenn is not the problem at Wyoming. Joe Glenn has done wonders for the football program, and for the University. He's brought back an enthusiasm that wasn't seen in Cowboy football since Joe Tiller left. The team is winning games now (albeit, losing some ugly ones), but we're in much better shape now than we ever were under Dimel and Koenning. Koenning not only lost the fans, but he also lost the players, who had absolutely no respect for the man. Glenn's a guy you can get behind and support.

The problem with the Cowboy football team is two things: Recruiting and offensive performance. We have to face it, we will not recruit stud athletes to Laramie.. the best we will get is 3 star guy, maybe some 4 star mixed in. Laramie's not an easy place to recruit to. It's hard to convince a college kid to come play football in Laramie since you're in the middle of nowhere, there's nothing around and not a lot to do, it's cold, it's windy, and it snows every month of the year. But the kids that can overcome that, are the ones that really want to play football.. that's why Wyoming doesn't have a lot of academic/player behavior issues. That's a big up in the Wyoming football program.. players are very well behaved, in general. At least, nothing to make ESPNs front page. We're not always going to get the best kids, but we're going to get kids that really want to play, no matter what their talent level is.

The offense.. my goodness. I blind monkey flinging poo on the field could make better play calls than what we've been seeing this year. I've only seen one Cowboy game on TV this year, but I can safely say that a lot of talent is being wasted on the field this year. The Cowboys have the best running back duo in the MWC. This tandem should be running for close to 2000 yards, instead we're seeing a lot less than that. There's no reason these two shouldn't be running the ball down someone's throat all game long. When you open up the running game, you open up the passing game, and this year we've seen Sween regress from where he was last season.. all of this falls on the shoulders of OC Cockhill. It's unreasonable to think that Joe Glenn is going to make a change mid-season at OC. That's a tough job to replace in the middle of trying to get bowl eligible. I think a lot of people are going to be pissed of Billy is given the job next season, however. I think he probably needs to disappear from the program in general, not just relieved of his OC duties. But I think the Cowboys are going to need to bring someone in with an offense similar to what we're trying to run now, because if we bring in a guy that wants to overturn the playbook, it's possible the team will regress again next season while trying to learn a new playbook.. then the excuse bandwagon starts, and we're back to this same point next season. The fans, players, and alums are not going to tolerate another regression next season.

However, the defense is definitely the strong point of the team, and I don't think a lot needs to change right there. The defense is the heart and soul of this football team, and if they're going to have any chance of getting back to the top of the MWC, the defense needs to stay in tact. We've proven we can hold a top 25 team to three points, there's no reason the rest of the season should be any different. So I'm completely on board with the defense and it's scheme.

Did I miss anything?

[MrTitleist]

Oh, and welcome to the board tdt25!

[tdt25]

Thank you for the welcome,
I am not by any means saying Glenn is perfect and a gift from heaven. Yes he has flaws and there does need to be some changes within his staff. But I think Glenn is still learning along the way, this is his first D-I job. He will learn and obviously if he doesn´t within the next 2-3 years then you have to ask bigger questions. I just would like to reiterate my point that if you had asked any cowboy fan 4 years ago if they would be happy with having the chance to become bowl eligible in 3 out of 4 years within 5 years, everyone would have said yes. I think its important to realize that at least we have been playing for something the past 4 weeks. I think Mrtitleist touched on a good point that people need to have realistic expectations for our football team.

I dont know if Wyoming is ever going to develop into a constant top 25 team that will win the MWC every year or every other year on the level of say BYU-Boise. I think about the biggest realistic expectation you can have is that WYO will compete hard every year, middle to above average in the MWC and every 5-6 years top out and possibly break through for a year or two winning the conference like the late 80´s and mid 90´s. We just won´t ever to constantly be able to recruit that kind of talent to Laramie.

[WyoCow85]

Then why do we have a football program? If we concede its impossible to win here, what the hell are we doing? Bulldoze the War and build a damn parking garage. Give those 60+ scholarships to someone else. While Wyoming has never dominated on a level of a BYU or Utah, we have never been the joke that we are at times now. This team is better with Glenn than Koenning. But the bar is higher then this. If its not, then the people of this community and university should see that the program is cut NOW. What I think is frustrating a lot of these people on this board is the things we do poorly that are so glaringly coaching mistakes and mistakes that repeat themselves over and over. Quarterbacks do not progress here like they do at other institiutions. Karsten Sween, Corey Bramlet.... these kids have the athletic ability and arm strength equal to or superior to that of Max Hall's. Some of you may not agree with that, but if you do, then how do you make the recruiting argument??? They continue to make the same mistakes and do not grow here. They drown in our bland, simple and childish offensive schemes. Glenn says these kids never quit, and they dont. But as of the Utah game you saw that they believe going in that they are going to loose. They know the way things are done now will not get it done, and they play like loosers. Things have to be shaken up. Trends dont just come to a halt themselves.

[MrTitleist]

Then why do we have a football program? If we concede its impossible to win here, what the hell are we doing? Bulldoze the War and build a damn parking garage. Give those 60+ scholarships to someone else. While Wyoming has never dominated on a level of a BYU or Utah, we have never been the joke that we are at times now. This team is better with Glenn than Koenning. But the bar is higher then this. If its not, then the people of this community and university should see that the program is cut NOW. What I think is frustrating a lot of these people on this board is the things we do poorly that are so glaringly coaching mistakes and mistakes that repeat themselves over and over. Quarterbacks do not progress here like they do at other institiutions. Karsten Sween, Corey Bramlet.... these kids have the athletic ability and arm strength equal to or superior to that of Max Hall's. Some of you may not agree with that, but if you do, then how do you make the recruiting argument??? They continue to make the same mistakes and do not grow here. They drown in our bland, simple and childish offensive schemes. Glenn says these kids never quit, and they dont. But as of the Utah game you saw that they believe going in that they are going to loose. They know the way things are done now will not get it done, and they play like loosers. Things have to be shaken up. Trends dont just come to a halt themselves.

You bring up some good points, but a little off base on a couple. No one's said that it's impossible to win at Wyoming, because we've done it before.. we've put together some pretty good teams in the history of this storied program, and we've sent some pretty good guys to the NFL. But the Cowboy program is not a joke right now, and it's 5-6 wins better now than it was 6 years ago. It might be a joke amongst us talking heads on message boards, but not in the real world. You mention that quarterbacks do not progress like they should, and you're correct, that comes down to coaching, and the coaching of that particular position is on the shoulders of Billy Cockhill. Which is one of the reasons he needs to disappear from the coaching staff, and I think we're all in agreement with that. Remember, we've turned out some pretty good QBs in the past, Sween should be no exception, but poor coaching has taken him where he is now. I don't think they're playing like losers, but their heads aren't being held as high as they were at the end of September.

[tdt25]

When did I say its impossible to win here? All I said is be realistic, WYO is probably not going to be able to year and and year out dominate the MWC because the truth of the matter we wont recruit that kind of talent consistently to Laramie. Karsten Sween is one of the more talented QB´s we have recruited and yes, he does need to be coached better, that is obvious. But I am not just talking about that, I am talking about overall team depth, not just one or two positions. Sween might have the same raw talent as Max Hall, but overall team depth recruiting is what i am talking about. Of course BYU gets to recruit exclusively within an entire religion, but thats another story

Since when are we a joke? Or when did I ever say that? I just said you need to have realistic expectations for our program, but I never said that those expectations should be losing at the bottom of the conference every year.

And of course their heads are not as high as they were in September. if the ball bounces a different way in a couple games, like in the SDSU, AFA games, without the delay in the New Mex game, maybe we enter the Utah game 8-1 and then I dont think we would be losing 50-0, thats just the nature of the game, its tough to get out of a losing streak. The Utah and BYU losses cant just be looked at as individual games, they were the culmination of losing several tough games in a row that we had a really good chance of winning, regardless of whos coaching thats just basics psychology.

[tttgowyo]

I was wasting time on ebay last night and saw that someone posted Joe Tiller's Wyoming spread offensive playbook for sale. A complete 204 page playbook showing how to win using one of the most successful offensive schemes in college football history, accorfding to him. I think I will bid on it, and send it to Billy for review. Might give him some ideas.

[MrTitleist]

I'd love to see that playbook... just to see what's inside of it.

[Adv8RU12]

Joe is the problem only insofar as he does nothing about the offensive problem, i.e., Cockhill and his offensive staff. He should also look at special teams coaching.

Look at how the business world works: Managers are responsible for their personnel. And the family:
Parents are responsible for their kids.

[WyoCow85]

I think I may have been misunderstood. By shake ups I mean firing Cockhill. As it stands now, Joe Glenn is the best man for the job at Wyoming, and while he has now had 5 season, which means every kid on the team is his kid, this is Wyoming and things have improved since 2003 when he arrived. All that Im saying is the ultimate bar is higher then where we stand now. If 2-6, 3-5 in the MWC is the bar, I dont want to be a fan of that program, and I dont anyone would. If Burman made a press release indicating that Joe Glenn is required to reach 3-5, and 6-6 every year, and keep a job forever, he would loose his job, and everyone would be outraged at Wyoming athletics. I just get the feeling sometimes that because of WHO Joe Glenn is as a person, Wyoming is satisfied with 3-5. Im not.

[Kansan Cowboy!]

Were not saying that we expect the bar of succes to be at only winning 2 or 3 conf. games a year. What we're saying is it usually takes more than five years to rebuild a program. Here's your perfect example.
Frank Beamer came into a program at V. tech. that was, let's just say much better than what Glenn walked into to. But it took Frank Beamer 7 years to restore the V tech program back to national prominence. Seven years! Here they are:

1987: 2-9
1988: 3-8
1989: 6-4-1
1990: 6-5
1991: 5-6
1992: 2-8-1 ( They so would've fire this guy at Wyo with #'s like these. But they didn't. Good thing too!)
1993: 9-3 ( this is where it actually began.
Look at the six years previous. Key word, "SIX"!
Let's take a look at Glenn.
He came into a program that went 5-29 the previous three years. Beamers Hokies went 23-11-1 three years previous. Now Glenns record since he's been here.

2003: 4-8
2004: 7-5 Bowl Win
2005: 4-7
2006: 6-6
2007: 5-6
Okay, Is it just me or am I seeing Glenn looking a heck of a lot better than Beamer? And we know that Beamer is good. It took Beamer six years before he had a good winning record. Glenns been here for 5 years. "5"!!! At least give Glenn two more years. He's proven himself better than Beamer did at V. Tech. in less time also.
Again, a little word that packs a big punch..."Patience"

[tdt25]

Exactly, good god, no one is saying the target success for our program is 3-5 in the conference. Thats ridiculous to suggest that.

[tttgowyo]

Exactly, good god, no one is saying the target success for our program is 3-5 in the conference. Thats ridiculous to suggest that.

Amen... If it was, I would probably have less gray hair, and be pretty content..