Bohls press conference....
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:21 pm
He was pissed off today about everything, which he should be. But he seemed to still make excuses for the passing game.
Agree. Yadda yadda yadda, smoke, mirrors, deflection, excuses.LanderPoke wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:29 pm I watched it. It’s honestly all blah blah bs until he gets new coaches. Coming back with the same people will produce the same results. We CANNOT have the same results as the last four years and six of seven.
The players and fans deserve better than what Bohl and Vigen are giving us on offense. I trust Bohl and think he offers a lot. Vigen offers NOTHING of value. Let him go already.
LawPoke wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:38 amAgree. Yadda yadda yadda, smoke, mirrors, deflection, excuses.LanderPoke wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:29 pm I watched it. It’s honestly all blah blah bs until he gets new coaches. Coming back with the same people will produce the same results. We CANNOT have the same results as the last four years and six of seven.
The players and fans deserve better than what Bohl and Vigen are giving us on offense. I trust Bohl and think he offers a lot. Vigen offers NOTHING of value. Let him go already.
My wife, who is not exactly astute in the ways of X's and O's, can call the play generally "run up the gut, QB sneak, etc.) more than 75% of the time. If a ten year old and a 42 year old housewife know what is coming in our offense, perhaps the likes of Rocky Long might have a hunch too. Strange that those numbers I mentioned earlier are so anemic. Truly strange.
And then proceeded to run the same play at least 3 more times in the game in the exact same situation. Vigen is not an OC.LawPoke wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:38 amDuring the Boise game, I recall where the announcers called the play before it happened. 3rd and manageable and we sneak our depleted QB into the teeth of the perimeter of a fast and aggressive defense.LanderPoke wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:29 pm I watched it. It’s honestly all blah blah bs until he gets new coaches. Coming back with the same people will produce the same results. We CANNOT have the same results as the last four years and six of seven.
The players and fans deserve better than what Bohl and Vigen are giving us on offense. I trust Bohl and think he offers a lot. Vigen offers NOTHING of value. Let him go already.
FWIW...most people who watch football can get to somewhere north of 70% on basic call prediction based on down and distance and familiarity with the team. That is not necessarily the problem. The problem is in the plays not working. If you look back at Oregon during the Chip Kelley heyday...it was shocking how they did literally the same thing over and over ... to the point that it was comical. All of the successful teams do this. Can't remember the coach (maybe it was an analyst)...basically said that play variety is wildly overrated...everybody is trying to do basically the same thing. Namely, create a structure of around 5 plays (within which there are varying routes or blocking schemes) and get so good at them that the defense begins to react to them in a way that allows chunk plays when you finally throw a changeup at them. The best example of this is when you see AFA successfully running their game plan on somebody. It is basically a dive, qb keeper, or a pitch (or a flipped version of one of those three). Very predictable but very hard to stop. If you are able to stop those basic plays...no matter what they call after that has almost no hope of succeeding. That is the problem with Vigen's system. It does not succeed at the basic stuff. Now against truly terrible teams it doesn't seem to matter but anybody with a pulse defensively will render the basics of Vigen's playbook ineffective and then no matter what play gets called...it won't succeed.PokeNer wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:15 amAnd then proceeded to run the same play at least 3 more times in the game in the exact same situation. Vigen is not an OC.LawPoke wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:38 amDuring the Boise game, I recall where the announcers called the play before it happened. 3rd and manageable and we sneak our depleted QB into the teeth of the perimeter of a fast and aggressive defense.LanderPoke wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:29 pm I watched it. It’s honestly all blah blah bs until he gets new coaches. Coming back with the same people will produce the same results. We CANNOT have the same results as the last four years and six of seven.
The players and fans deserve better than what Bohl and Vigen are giving us on offense. I trust Bohl and think he offers a lot. Vigen offers NOTHING of value. Let him go already.
I really hope we hear some staff announcements after we get the early class all signed up, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
You hit a lot of important points but saying this is '90% Vigen' is not correct in my opinion. Bohl is the head coach and ultimately he has final say on the shape of the offense and play calling. Vigen is Bohl because that is how Bohl has chosen to handle and manage the team.307bball wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:46 amFWIW...most people who watch football can get to somewhere north of 70% on basic call prediction based on down and distance and familiarity with the team. That is not necessarily the problem. The problem is in the plays not working. If you look back at Oregon during the Chip Kelley heyday...it was shocking how they did literally the same thing over and over ... to the point that it was comical. All of the successful teams do this. Can't remember the coach (maybe it was an analyst)...basically said that play variety is wildly overrated...everybody is trying to do basically the same thing. Namely, create a structure of around 5 plays (within which there are varying routes or blocking schemes) and get so good at them that the defense begins to react to them in a way that allows chunk plays when you finally throw a changeup at them. The best example of this is when you see AFA successfully running their game plan on somebody. It is basically a dive, qb keeper, or a pitch (or a flipped version of one of those three). Very predictable but very hard to stop. If you are able to stop those basic plays...no matter what they call after that has almost no hope of succeeding. That is the problem with Vigen's system. It does not succeed at the basic stuff. Now against truly terrible teams it doesn't seem to matter but anybody with a pulse defensively will render the basics of Vigen's playbook ineffective and then no matter what play gets called...it won't succeed.PokeNer wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:15 amAnd then proceeded to run the same play at least 3 more times in the game in the exact same situation. Vigen is not an OC.LawPoke wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:38 amDuring the Boise game, I recall where the announcers called the play before it happened. 3rd and manageable and we sneak our depleted QB into the teeth of the perimeter of a fast and aggressive defense.LanderPoke wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:29 pm I watched it. It’s honestly all blah blah bs until he gets new coaches. Coming back with the same people will produce the same results. We CANNOT have the same results as the last four years and six of seven.
The players and fans deserve better than what Bohl and Vigen are giving us on offense. I trust Bohl and think he offers a lot. Vigen offers NOTHING of value. Let him go already.
I really hope we hear some staff announcements after we get the early class all signed up, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
TLDR: Vigen's scheme or the players are so bad that they are unable to make the basics of this offense functional regardless of whether the play is predictable or not. My money is the the problem is 90% Vigen
Dude, didn't you listen to Bohl? They were prepared for Chambers, but him going down on the 3rd play of the season has changed what they can and cannot do on offense. They are still evaluating what Williams can handle. Cause, you know, 6+ weeks of having Williams as a starter, including two bye weeks, isn't enough time. /sOrediggerPoke wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:06 pmYou hit a lot of important points but saying this is '90% Vigen' is not correct in my opinion. Bohl is the head coach and ultimately he has final say on the shape of the offense and play calling. Vigen is Bohl because that is how Bohl has chosen to handle and manage the team.307bball wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:46 amFWIW...most people who watch football can get to somewhere north of 70% on basic call prediction based on down and distance and familiarity with the team. That is not necessarily the problem. The problem is in the plays not working. If you look back at Oregon during the Chip Kelley heyday...it was shocking how they did literally the same thing over and over ... to the point that it was comical. All of the successful teams do this. Can't remember the coach (maybe it was an analyst)...basically said that play variety is wildly overrated...everybody is trying to do basically the same thing. Namely, create a structure of around 5 plays (within which there are varying routes or blocking schemes) and get so good at them that the defense begins to react to them in a way that allows chunk plays when you finally throw a changeup at them. The best example of this is when you see AFA successfully running their game plan on somebody. It is basically a dive, qb keeper, or a pitch (or a flipped version of one of those three). Very predictable but very hard to stop. If you are able to stop those basic plays...no matter what they call after that has almost no hope of succeeding. That is the problem with Vigen's system. It does not succeed at the basic stuff. Now against truly terrible teams it doesn't seem to matter but anybody with a pulse defensively will render the basics of Vigen's playbook ineffective and then no matter what play gets called...it won't succeed.PokeNer wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:15 amAnd then proceeded to run the same play at least 3 more times in the game in the exact same situation. Vigen is not an OC.LawPoke wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:38 amDuring the Boise game, I recall where the announcers called the play before it happened. 3rd and manageable and we sneak our depleted QB into the teeth of the perimeter of a fast and aggressive defense.LanderPoke wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:29 pm I watched it. It’s honestly all blah blah bs until he gets new coaches. Coming back with the same people will produce the same results. We CANNOT have the same results as the last four years and six of seven.
The players and fans deserve better than what Bohl and Vigen are giving us on offense. I trust Bohl and think he offers a lot. Vigen offers NOTHING of value. Let him go already.
I really hope we hear some staff announcements after we get the early class all signed up, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
TLDR: Vigen's scheme or the players are so bad that they are unable to make the basics of this offense functional regardless of whether the play is predictable or not. My money is the the problem is 90% Vigen
One additional problem that I have noticed consistently over the years is an unwillingness to adapt the play calling to the players on the field and their relative strengths. An example of the many over the years is Levi Williams struggles and injury against Boise. Whether Williams should have even been on the field last week is a whole other story. But regardless of that question, the routes that were being called were very similar to the routes we have seen the past 7 years. If Williams can't get the ball there, what is the point of even running that play??? You have to adjust and dial back the play calling from a simplicity standpoint (i.e. try shorter simpler throws that get the playmakers in space). You have to maximize the skills that you have on the field. This requires an ability to adjust (it doesn't mean you have to change the offense...you can call virtually the same play with a differente route tree).
I'm just another armchair pop warner coach but it was apparent that Williams was set up to fail last week. That is on the coaches and is so disappointing. A player's confidence and future might have been ruined by those decisions. I hope not.
I think you are absolutely correct. Most offenses don't have that many different sets. What they have is repetition that achieves (1) the ability to break loose on one play with a missed tackle or assignment; (2) the ability to wear down a defense mentally or physically; and (3) the ability to surprise the defense with a big play that alters from the script (play action, etc.). Our problem is that they know to put 8 to 11 in the box to address 1 and 2 - with no fear that we have any ability to execute 3 (we don't have the ability or the playmakers). And they know Vigen may not have (1) the authority; or (2) the skill to make they pay as a defense.307bball wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:46 amFWIW...most people who watch football can get to somewhere north of 70% on basic call prediction based on down and distance and familiarity with the team. That is not necessarily the problem. The problem is in the plays not working. If you look back at Oregon during the Chip Kelley heyday...it was shocking how they did literally the same thing over and over ... to the point that it was comical. All of the successful teams do this. Can't remember the coach (maybe it was an analyst)...basically said that play variety is wildly overrated...everybody is trying to do basically the same thing. Namely, create a structure of around 5 plays (within which there are varying routes or blocking schemes) and get so good at them that the defense begins to react to them in a way that allows chunk plays when you finally throw a changeup at them. The best example of this is when you see AFA successfully running their game plan on somebody. It is basically a dive, qb keeper, or a pitch (or a flipped version of one of those three). Very predictable but very hard to stop. If you are able to stop those basic plays...no matter what they call after that has almost no hope of succeeding. That is the problem with Vigen's system. It does not succeed at the basic stuff. Now against truly terrible teams it doesn't seem to matter but anybody with a pulse defensively will render the basics of Vigen's playbook ineffective and then no matter what play gets called...it won't succeed.PokeNer wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:15 amAnd then proceeded to run the same play at least 3 more times in the game in the exact same situation. Vigen is not an OC.LawPoke wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:38 amDuring the Boise game, I recall where the announcers called the play before it happened. 3rd and manageable and we sneak our depleted QB into the teeth of the perimeter of a fast and aggressive defense.LanderPoke wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:29 pm I watched it. It’s honestly all blah blah bs until he gets new coaches. Coming back with the same people will produce the same results. We CANNOT have the same results as the last four years and six of seven.
The players and fans deserve better than what Bohl and Vigen are giving us on offense. I trust Bohl and think he offers a lot. Vigen offers NOTHING of value. Let him go already.
I really hope we hear some staff announcements after we get the early class all signed up, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
TLDR: Vigen's scheme or the players are so bad that they are unable to make the basics of this offense functional regardless of whether the play is predictable or not. My money is the the problem is 90% Vigen
You are right Oredigger, my comment was not to suggest that Bohl is not where the buck stops. I merely meant that ~90% of the problem with the scheme is centered on Vigen IMO....Bohl is ultimately responsible for sticking with it though.OrediggerPoke wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:06 pm You hit a lot of important points but saying this is '90% Vigen' is not correct in my opinion. Bohl is the head coach and ultimately he has final say on the shape of the offense and play calling. Vigen is Bohl because that is how Bohl has chosen to handle and manage the team.
I'm pretty sure you are being a bit tongue in cheek with this remark....but I did want to say..PokeNer wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:42 pm Dude, didn't you listen to Bohl? They were prepared for Chambers, but him going down on the 3rd play of the season has changed what they can and cannot do on offense. They are still evaluating what Williams can handle. Cause, you know, 6+ weeks of having Williams as a starter, including two bye weeks, isn't enough time. /s