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WyomingAg wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:27 pm It's his buddy Heath all over again.

One year from now we will be having the same discussion of will Edwards be fired or not. Or does our 12 win team next year, that has a 50% increase in wins but still have a bad losing record get considered "dramatic improvement"

stymeman wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:14 pm Don't see what he sees, but hopefully drastically different next year, i miss seeing the AA(somewhat)

bladerunnr wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:18 am As long as attendance doesn't fall too hard, a 5th year of Edwards would not surprise me, no matter how bad the results.

OrediggerPoke wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:25 am

bladerunnr wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:18 am As long as attendance doesn't fall too hard, a 5th year of Edwards would not surprise me, no matter how bad the results.

Attendance was terrible this year. Without Maury's ticket donations, we are looking at historically bad attendance.

ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:36 am Even with Shy, Burman has really struggled with the men's bball program.

Considering the demise of the MWC in both major sports, our inability to more consistently field championship teams or even competitive (with the top of the conference) teams is mind blowing unless you are accepting of the philosophy that Laramie just has too many challenges.

I think that is horsecrap, but i know I'm in the minority.

Cornpoke wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:31 am

ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:36 am Even with Shy, Burman has really struggled with the men's bball program.

Considering the demise of the MWC in both major sports, our inability to more consistently field championship teams or even competitive (with the top of the conference) teams is mind blowing unless you are accepting of the philosophy that Laramie just has too many challenges.

I think that is horsecrap, but i know I'm in the minority.

I'm with you on that. All the excuses have been used up. The MWC is substantially weaker than it used to be but yet no improvement in the major sports.

307bball wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:06 pm

Cornpoke wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:31 am

ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:36 am Even with Shy, Burman has really struggled with the men's bball program.

Considering the demise of the MWC in both major sports, our inability to more consistently field championship teams or even competitive (with the top of the conference) teams is mind blowing unless you are accepting of the philosophy that Laramie just has too many challenges.

I think that is horsecrap, but i know I'm in the minority.

I'm with you on that. All the excuses have been used up. The MWC is substantially weaker than it used to be but yet no improvement in the major sports.

Hmm is it possible that Wyoming is not immune to whatever forces are conspiring to hollow out the middle of college athletics. There has always been year-in year-out top notch programs in college as well as the opposite doormat programs. I have no data to back this up but it feels like those opposite poles are further apart than they used to be and the distribution of teams are migrating in one direction or the other....mostly by historically average programs sliding into the doormat ranks, but there are a few examples of programs that have been able to move in a more competitive direction.

The MWC, oustide of Boise St football has regressed since it's formation. I don't think that regression is specific to just the MWC. Somebody that is better at statistical analysis could verify this by looking at avg wins/year in 4 year windows for the last 40 years or so. I would bet that the year over year mediocre competitive program has largely dissapeared and been replaced by year over year terrible programs with 1-2 year spikes in wins.

If you take a step back and acknowledge that across college athletics, competitive imbalance is worsening...how much of this do you lay at the foot any current individual athletic director or administration? I'm in agreement that Burman no great leader, but I fail to see the obvious-to-others moves that Wyoming should be making. The announcement about demanding "dramatic improvement" rings hollow to us who know it's much more about buyout amounts. If this was all about W's and L's he would be gone. Look at CSU football...They don't want Bobo down there but they are stuck financially....it gets dressed up as "staying the course" or "improvements are coming" but the reality is that both schools have handcuffed themselves financially to under-performing coaches.

The talk about Laramie being to difficult to win at is BS..no question. There is a bigger question though. Is some kind of sustained competitive balance become more and more difficult to hang on to in the era of modern era of college athletics?

Pokes fan 24-7 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:50 pm

307bball wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:06 pm

Cornpoke wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:31 am

ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:36 am Even with Shy, Burman has really struggled with the men's bball program.

Considering the demise of the MWC in both major sports, our inability to more consistently field championship teams or even competitive (with the top of the conference) teams is mind blowing unless you are accepting of the philosophy that Laramie just has too many challenges.

I think that is horsecrap, but i know I'm in the minority.

I'm with you on that. All the excuses have been used up. The MWC is substantially weaker than it used to be but yet no improvement in the major sports.

Hmm is it possible that Wyoming is not immune to whatever forces are conspiring to hollow out the middle of college athletics. There has always been year-in year-out top notch programs in college as well as the opposite doormat programs. I have no data to back this up but it feels like those opposite poles are further apart than they used to be and the distribution of teams are migrating in one direction or the other....mostly by historically average programs sliding into the doormat ranks, but there are a few examples of programs that have been able to move in a more competitive direction.

The MWC, oustide of Boise St football has regressed since it's formation. I don't think that regression is specific to just the MWC. Somebody that is better at statistical analysis could verify this by looking at avg wins/year in 4 year windows for the last 40 years or so. I would bet that the year over year mediocre competitive program has largely dissapeared and been replaced by year over year terrible programs with 1-2 year spikes in wins.

If you take a step back and acknowledge that across college athletics, competitive imbalance is worsening...how much of this do you lay at the foot any current individual athletic director or administration? I'm in agreement that Burman no great leader, but I fail to see the obvious-to-others moves that Wyoming should be making. The announcement about demanding "dramatic improvement" rings hollow to us who know it's much more about buyout amounts. If this was all about W's and L's he would be gone. Look at CSU football...They don't want Bobo down there but they are stuck financially....it gets dressed up as "staying the course" or "improvements are coming" but the reality is that both schools have handcuffed themselves financially to under-performing coaches.

The talk about Laramie being to difficult to win at is BS..no question. There is a bigger question though. Is some kind of sustained competitive balance become more and more difficult to hang on to in the era of modern era of college athletics?

This is true for football but not basketball. With basketball, the gap has been shrinking between the P5 and mid majors for years. AAC, Missourri Valley, WCC, etc.have all been improving and gaining ground on the P5. The mountain west has declined a bit, but Nevada is as good as any of the old SDSU , UNLV, or Utah team's from the glory days of the conference. I think allot of MWC schools are neglecting hoops and sinking more resources into football to try and bridge that gap between the halves and have nots. Allot of the more successful smaller basketball programs either don't have football or are FCS.

307bball wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:37 pm

Pokes fan 24-7 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:50 pm

307bball wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:06 pm

Cornpoke wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:31 am

ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:36 am Even with Shy, Burman has really struggled with the men's bball program.

Considering the demise of the MWC in both major sports, our inability to more consistently field championship teams or even competitive (with the top of the conference) teams is mind blowing unless you are accepting of the philosophy that Laramie just has too many challenges.

I think that is horsecrap, but i know I'm in the minority.

I'm with you on that. All the excuses have been used up. The MWC is substantially weaker than it used to be but yet no improvement in the major sports.

Hmm is it possible that Wyoming is not immune to whatever forces are conspiring to hollow out the middle of college athletics. There has always been year-in year-out top notch programs in college as well as the opposite doormat programs. I have no data to back this up but it feels like those opposite poles are further apart than they used to be and the distribution of teams are migrating in one direction or the other....mostly by historically average programs sliding into the doormat ranks, but there are a few examples of programs that have been able to move in a more competitive direction.

The MWC, oustide of Boise St football has regressed since it's formation. I don't think that regression is specific to just the MWC. Somebody that is better at statistical analysis could verify this by looking at avg wins/year in 4 year windows for the last 40 years or so. I would bet that the year over year mediocre competitive program has largely dissapeared and been replaced by year over year terrible programs with 1-2 year spikes in wins.

If you take a step back and acknowledge that across college athletics, competitive imbalance is worsening...how much of this do you lay at the foot any current individual athletic director or administration? I'm in agreement that Burman no great leader, but I fail to see the obvious-to-others moves that Wyoming should be making. The announcement about demanding "dramatic improvement" rings hollow to us who know it's much more about buyout amounts. If this was all about W's and L's he would be gone. Look at CSU football...They don't want Bobo down there but they are stuck financially....it gets dressed up as "staying the course" or "improvements are coming" but the reality is that both schools have handcuffed themselves financially to under-performing coaches.

The talk about Laramie being to difficult to win at is BS..no question. There is a bigger question though. Is some kind of sustained competitive balance become more and more difficult to hang on to in the era of modern era of college athletics?

This is true for football but not basketball. With basketball, the gap has been shrinking between the P5 and mid majors for years. AAC, Missourri Valley, WCC, etc.have all been improving and gaining ground on the P5. The mountain west has declined a bit, but Nevada is as good as any of the old SDSU , UNLV, or Utah team's from the glory days of the conference. I think allot of MWC schools are neglecting hoops and sinking more resources into football to try and bridge that gap between the halves and have nots. Allot of the more successful smaller basketball programs either don't have football or are FCS.

Maybe the better question should be...does having a football program actually impede basketball success for non-P5 schools? That is interesting. Seems like a very strong correlation...maybe it is even caused by it....

307bball wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:06 pm

Cornpoke wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:31 am

ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:36 am Even with Shy, Burman has really struggled with the men's bball program.

Considering the demise of the MWC in both major sports, our inability to more consistently field championship teams or even competitive (with the top of the conference) teams is mind blowing unless you are accepting of the philosophy that Laramie just has too many challenges.

I think that is horsecrap, but i know I'm in the minority.

I'm with you on that. All the excuses have been used up. The MWC is substantially weaker than it used to be but yet no improvement in the major sports.

Hmm is it possible that Wyoming is not immune to whatever forces are conspiring to hollow out the middle of college athletics. There has always been year-in year-out top notch programs in college as well as the opposite doormat programs. I have no data to back this up but it feels like those opposite poles are further apart than they used to be and the distribution of teams are migrating in one direction or the other....mostly by historically average programs sliding into the doormat ranks, but there are a few examples of programs that have been able to move in a more competitive direction.

The MWC, oustide of Boise St football has regressed since it's formation. I don't think that regression is specific to just the MWC. Somebody that is better at statistical analysis could verify this by looking at avg wins/year in 4 year windows for the last 40 years or so. I would bet that the year over year mediocre competitive program has largely dissapeared and been replaced by year over year terrible programs with 1-2 year spikes in wins.

If you take a step back and acknowledge that across college athletics, competitive imbalance is worsening...how much of this do you lay at the foot any current individual athletic director or administration? I'm in agreement that Burman no great leader, but I fail to see the obvious-to-others moves that Wyoming should be making. The announcement about demanding "dramatic improvement" rings hollow to us who know it's much more about buyout amounts. If this was all about W's and L's he would be gone. Look at CSU football...They don't want Bobo down there but they are stuck financially....it gets dressed up as "staying the course" or "improvements are coming" but the reality is that both schools have handcuffed themselves financially to under-performing coaches.

The talk about Laramie being to difficult to win at is BS..no question. There is a bigger question though. Is some kind of sustained competitive balance become more and more difficult to hang on to in the era of modern era of college athletics?

Wyolie Coyote wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:12 am

307bball wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:06 pm

Cornpoke wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:31 am

ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:36 am Even with Shy, Burman has really struggled with the men's bball program.

Considering the demise of the MWC in both major sports, our inability to more consistently field championship teams or even competitive (with the top of the conference) teams is mind blowing unless you are accepting of the philosophy that Laramie just has too many challenges.

I think that is horsecrap, but i know I'm in the minority.

I'm with you on that. All the excuses have been used up. The MWC is substantially weaker than it used to be but yet no improvement in the major sports.

Hmm is it possible that Wyoming is not immune to whatever forces are conspiring to hollow out the middle of college athletics. There has always been year-in year-out top notch programs in college as well as the opposite doormat programs. I have no data to back this up but it feels like those opposite poles are further apart than they used to be and the distribution of teams are migrating in one direction or the other....mostly by historically average programs sliding into the doormat ranks, but there are a few examples of programs that have been able to move in a more competitive direction.

The MWC, oustide of Boise St football has regressed since it's formation. I don't think that regression is specific to just the MWC. Somebody that is better at statistical analysis could verify this by looking at avg wins/year in 4 year windows for the last 40 years or so. I would bet that the year over year mediocre competitive program has largely dissapeared and been replaced by year over year terrible programs with 1-2 year spikes in wins.

If you take a step back and acknowledge that across college athletics, competitive imbalance is worsening...how much of this do you lay at the foot any current individual athletic director or administration? I'm in agreement that Burman no great leader, but I fail to see the obvious-to-others moves that Wyoming should be making. The announcement about demanding "dramatic improvement" rings hollow to us who know it's much more about buyout amounts. If this was all about W's and L's he would be gone. Look at CSU football...They don't want Bobo down there but they are stuck financially....it gets dressed up as "staying the course" or "improvements are coming" but the reality is that both schools have handcuffed themselves financially to under-performing coaches.

The talk about Laramie being to difficult to win at is BS..no question. There is a bigger question though. Is some kind of sustained competitive balance become more and more difficult to hang on to in the era of modern era of college athletics?

This is all fine and dandy to argue. There is a competitive imbalance between the P5 and G5 schools. Can't dispute that. However, should we not be able to compete and maintain relevance within our own damn conference? If we cannot do so then it is time to explore the Big Sky or RMAC.......