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This problem has been coming for sometime and...now it seems it is here.


http://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/257 ... leges-espn

Ugh. When I read that study about how badly the average offensive lineman's brain is hurt (college-age and up where we're talking 300 lbs guys smacking into each other over and over), I figured something's going to have to change... but how the hell do you change what happens at the line? Those guys aren't getting the knock-out type of concussions you see with QBs, WRs, and RBs, but it's supposedly even worse over time, because there's no way to avoid it.

For the big hit type of concussions, I do believe that we'll eventually have helmet technology. Both hockey and football want that to happen badly, and it seems there has to be some way. But the small impacts that happen on every single down with the big guys? That one seems way harder to solve from an engineering perspective.

I don't think there is a technology that can solve the problem of the brain going from all out to 0 in less than a quarter second.

They can prevent fractures, but the brain fluid is going to cavitate and the blood vessels are going to tear. So the brain damage will continue.

They are going to have change the way the game is played, unfortunately.

Maybe they will just start playing soccer, I mean football, you know, for all the foreigners here and coming changes happen.
How about cricket?
One used to never see cricket in the park.
But cricket has been played for at least a couple of decades now in the park.
It will be better for insurance and brains, too.

I’d be willing to bet that today’s players are going to be in better shape than those that came before just because of the changes in practice. There used to be full contact tackling in pretty much every practice and now it’s not like that.

alyssa wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:11 pm Maybe they will just start playing soccer

Soccer is one of the sports that have serious concussion problems, for the record. They don't even let kids practice headers anymore.

This article isn't exactly new...but I've been saying for years that football at the collegiate level will be drastically different within the next 10-15 years. It will be 'football' but will most closely mirror varsity flag football. Although I am one of the biggest football fans that I know, I am fine with this. Knowing what we do now, I wouldn't let my kids play football and don't let the soccer kids I coach head the ball (although it is certainly allowed in our league).

I believe that it will begin with a group of programs dropping traditional football in favor of this 'varsity flag football' and catch on from there ultimately replacing the traditional football that we have been accustomed to. From a collegiate sports standpoint, there is upside as well. I don't believe that this new form of football will require as many scholarship athletes allowing other men's sports to catch on (probably seeing an uptick in men's wrestling, lacrosse and soccer programs).

I would never watch a flag football game on TV. FF is a cheap substitute for football. Football is violent and I love it for its violence.

Lost Poke wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:05 am I don't think there is a technology that can solve the problem of the brain going from all out to 0 in less than a quarter second.

They can prevent fractures, but the brain fluid is going to cavitate and the blood vessels are going to tear. So the brain damage will continue.

They are going to have change the way the game is played, unfortunately.

Exactly -- there is no way to prevent the damage without preventing the rapid deceleration.
I hope that football isn't destroyed by rule changes though. I think that everyone should be made aware of the risks, and then allow them to make their choice.

Asmodeanreborn wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:34 am Ugh. When I read that study about how badly the average offensive lineman's brain is hurt (college-age and up where we're talking 300 lbs guys smacking into each other over and over), I figured something's going to have to change... but how the hell do you change what happens at the line? Those guys aren't getting the knock-out type of concussions you see with QBs, WRs, and RBs, but it's supposedly even worse over time, because there's no way to avoid it.

For the big hit type of concussions, I do believe that we'll eventually have helmet technology. Both hockey and football want that to happen badly, and it seems there has to be some way. But the small impacts that happen on every single down with the big guys? That one seems way harder to solve from an engineering perspective.

About the only thing I can think of is have everyone play barefoot in 24" of sand. Maybe without the traction and speed the concussions would go away.

An interesting thought I've heard, but honestly have no idea if backed up by evidence...

I've heard that professional rugby has fewer concussion issues than fotball (don't know if true). And one theory is that because they don't wear helmets or even pads, all players have learned to tackle and play in a completely different manner. Different game of course, no blocking, etc., but wonder if accurate and any takeaways?

yopaulie wrote: ↑Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:14 pm An interesting thought I've heard, but honestly have no idea if backed up by evidence...

I've heard that professional rugby has fewer concussion issues than fotball (don't know if true). And one theory is that because they don't wear helmets or even pads, all players have learned to tackle and play in a completely different manner. Different game of course, no blocking, etc., but wonder if accurate and any takeaways?

I think that is a myth but my understanding is that it is only recently that Rugby has been tracking concussions.

A relatively recent study found that concussion rates in Rugby amongst youth participants was 5 times higher than football. The study didn't look at severity of such concussions however (my guess would be that football results in more severe concussions).
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... RE20151216

yopaulie wrote: ↑Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:14 pm And one theory is that because they don't wear helmets or even pads, all players have learned to tackle and play in a completely different manner.

Funny, I was just about to post something on this issue. Way back in the old days you only saw a mask if the player wore glasses. And the leather helmets were pretty thin so players were careful about head contact (at least I was). I don't remember much if anything about head injuries in those days.

Adv8RU12 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:32 pm

yopaulie wrote: ↑Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:14 pm And one theory is that because they don't wear helmets or even pads, all players have learned to tackle and play in a completely different manner.

Funny, I was just about to post something on this issue. Way back in the old days you only saw a mask if the player wore glasses. And the leather helmets were pretty thin so players were careful about head contact (at least I was). I don't remember much if anything about head injuries in those days.

Haha either you are freaking ancient to have worn leather helmets in football or you are talking about leather helmets in rugby. Guess I'm confused because I didn't realize the rugby helmets were leather. I thought they were some sort of foam material.

'PokeForLife wrote: ↑Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:08 pm aha either you are freaking ancient to have worn leather helmets in football

I am freaking ancient and we did have leather helmets - although they were the last of the leather helmet generation - and it was high school . And my brain is still intact, although I sometimes forget to have my evening brandy - or is it a Jack Daniels?

Adv8RU12 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:29 pm

'PokeForLife wrote: ↑Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:08 pm aha either you are freaking ancient to have worn leather helmets in football

I am freaking ancient and we did have leather helmets - although they were the last of the leather helmet generation - and it was high school . And my brain is still intact, although I sometimes forget to have my evening brandy - or is it a Jack Daniels?

Better have a couple of each to make sure.

Sounds like the insurance companies have consolidated enough that they don't have enough competition to try to insure things like contact sports. Its too bad, I'm sure there are a ton of daily activities that probably cause minor brain damage - like that bumpy I25 through Fort Collins. Won't be much longer before the daily commuters on that stretch of road have injured the top and bottom halves of their brain.

Adv8RU12 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:29 pm

'PokeForLife wrote: ↑Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:08 pm aha either you are freaking ancient to have worn leather helmets in football

I am freaking ancient and we did have leather helmets - although they were the last of the leather helmet generation - and it was high school . And my brain is still intact, although I sometimes forget to have my evening brandy - or is it a Jack Daniels?

Was that in the late 40s? Or am I wrong about when leather wasn't used anymore? Wikipedia states that Riddell made the first plastic helmets in 1940, and I would assume it may have taken up to a decade for it to fully catch on.

My guess...players will sign a release for certain injuries releasing insurance, universities, or other organizations of any liability for that particular type of injury.

Players can decide if the risk is worth it to them. Personally, I think the risk is clearly there but perhaps a bit overblown as to the rate, severity, and long-term consequences. To date, I haven't seen a lot of "brain data" on players who had long careers and normal lives. I admit that I haven't looked extensively, so maybe it is out there.

ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:27 pm My guess...players will sign a release for certain injuries releasing insurance, universities, or other organizations of any liability for that particular type of injury.

Players can decide if the risk is worth it to them. Personally, I think the risk is clearly there but perhaps a bit overblown as to the rate, severity, and long-term consequences. To date, I haven't seen a lot of "brain data" on players who had long careers and normal lives. I admit that I haven't looked extensively, so maybe it is out there.

So players are going to assume the risks for certain injuries sustained while playing college football and cover any costs thereof out of their individual pockets? And universities are going to knowingly induce recruits into signing such an agreement? And courts are going to enforce such an agreement? No way. The whole premise is unconscionable and every university is going to understand that such a release will likely be ineffective exposing the university to substantial potential liabilities.