Anyone else tired of Matthew Shepard this Matthew Shepard that?

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LanderPoke
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Anyone else tired of Matthew Shepard this Matthew Shepard that?

Post by LanderPoke » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:32 am

I hate how my hometown is dragged into all of this. It's not us who killed him. Geez.

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Re: Anyone else tired of Matthew Shepard this Matthew Shepard that?

Post by ZapPoke » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:54 am

LanderPoke wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:32 am
I hate how my hometown is dragged into all of this. It's not us who killed him. Geez.
I’m with you Lander. There is a lot more to the story that is forgotten or conveniently overlooked. Those aspects don’t fit the narrative being pushed.

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Re: Anyone else tired of Matthew Shepard this Matthew Shepard that?

Post by LanderPoke » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:57 am

ZapPoke wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:54 am
LanderPoke wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:32 am
I hate how my hometown is dragged into all of this. It's not us who killed him. Geez.
I’m with you Lander. There is a lot more to the story that is forgotten or conveniently overlooked. Those aspects don’t fit the narrative being pushed.
Totally narative-driven.

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Re: Anyone else tired of Matthew Shepard this Matthew Shepard that?

Post by CasparMilquetoast » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:28 pm

LanderPoke wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:32 am
I hate how my hometown is dragged into all of this. It's not us who killed him. Geez.
What's crazy is that it wasn't 'us' that killed him, instead, it was two fellow homosexuals, something that never gets mentioned.

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Re: Anyone else tired of Matthew Shepard this Matthew Shepard that?

Post by fromolwyoming » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:00 pm

Lander, it happened here. I was here too for it. Facts are;
A brutal murder happened here in Laramie.
The only one that ever said anything on the killers being bisexual has never been confirmed by anyone else, even the killers themselves.
While it does suck that our town had such a thing happen, it is best to remember it so it never happens again.
And while it may not seem like much to you, the simple acknowledgement of this, of it being so wrong and remembered, can actually give some hope to those struggling with their own sexuality. That they won't have to be afraid for simply living in a place like Laramie.

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Re: Anyone else tired of Matthew Shepard this Matthew Shepard that?

Post by LanderPoke » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:36 pm

fromolwyoming wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:00 pm
Lander, it happened here. I was here too for it. Facts are;
A brutal murder happened here in Laramie.
The only one that ever said anything on the killers being bisexual has never been confirmed by anyone else, even the killers themselves.
While it does suck that our town had such a thing happen, it is best to remember it so it never happens again.
And while it may not seem like much to you, the simple acknowledgement of this, of it being so wrong and remembered, can actually give some hope to those struggling with their own sexuality. That they won't have to be afraid for simply living in a place like Laramie.
It makes me mad bat because Laramie is about the most tolerant place on earth and we get branded as bigots

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Re: Anyone else tired of Matthew Shepard this Matthew Shepard that?

Post by fromolwyoming » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:21 pm

LanderPoke wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:36 pm
fromolwyoming wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:00 pm
Lander, it happened here. I was here too for it. Facts are;
A brutal murder happened here in Laramie.
The only one that ever said anything on the killers being bisexual has never been confirmed by anyone else, even the killers themselves.
While it does suck that our town had such a thing happen, it is best to remember it so it never happens again.
And while it may not seem like much to you, the simple acknowledgement of this, of it being so wrong and remembered, can actually give some hope to those struggling with their own sexuality. That they won't have to be afraid for simply living in a place like Laramie.
It makes me mad bat because Laramie is about the most tolerant place on earth and we get branded as bigots
Trying to bury it though, is not going to make things better. Just worse.
Rather, acknowledging that it happened, that it was cruel and brutal, and that no one here condones such actions at all, is a step in the right direction.

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Re: Anyone else tired of Matthew Shepard this Matthew Shepard that?

Post by Asmodeanreborn » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:14 pm

Wait, who's branding Wyoming people bigots for the whole Shepard deal? Anytime I see it covered, a big deal is made about how Wyoming is unfriendly to the Westboro Baptists and how Wyoming as a whole is a "live and let live" state.

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Re: Anyone else tired of Matthew Shepard this Matthew Shepard that?

Post by LanderPoke » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:13 am

Asmodeanreborn wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:14 pm
Wait, who's branding Wyoming people bigots for the whole Shepard deal? Anytime I see it covered, a big deal is made about how Wyoming is unfriendly to the Westboro Baptists and how Wyoming as a whole is a "live and let live" state.
http://kowb1290.com/matthew-shepards-mu ... ars-later/

I've seen about 10 trash articles this week.

Laramie was synonymous with this murder for about a decade after. Just let it die already

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Re: Anyone else tired of Matthew Shepard this Matthew Shepard that?

Post by Asmodeanreborn » Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:51 am

I guess I don't see that as nearly as critical as some might? It doesn't sound to me as if Wyoming's somehow worse than other states in that regard, even though it does point out that it doesn't have the kind of hate crime law or whatever that most states do.

The part about imbalance among legislators sounds worse to me. But I highly doubt Wyoming's worse than Utah in that regard.

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Re: Anyone else tired of Matthew Shepard this Matthew Shepard that?

Post by CasparMilquetoast » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:58 pm

fromolwyoming wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:00 pm
Lander, it happened here. I was here too for it. Facts are;
A brutal murder happened here in Laramie.
The only one that ever said anything on the killers being bisexual has never been confirmed by anyone else, even the killers themselves.
While it does suck that our town had such a thing happen, it is best to remember it so it never happens again.
And while it may not seem like much to you, the simple acknowledgement of this, of it being so wrong and remembered, can actually give some hope to those struggling with their own sexuality. That they won't have to be afraid for simply living in a place like Laramie.

Wrong. HIs killers were gay as well, in fact, one of them, Aaron McKinney, engaged in homosexual acts with Shepard many times.

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Re: Anyone else tired of Matthew Shepard this Matthew Shepard that?

Post by Asmodeanreborn » Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:51 pm

CasparMilquetoast wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:58 pm
Wrong. HIs killers were gay as well, in fact, one of them, Aaron McKinney, engaged in homosexual acts with Shepard many times.
Do you have a source for this?

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Re: Anyone else tired of Matthew Shepard this Matthew Shepard that?

Post by CasparMilquetoast » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:35 am

Read The Book Of Matt, it was not and never was a crime motivated by a hatred of homosexuals, although, the media loves to spin it as such. Matt Shepard wasn't killed becuase he was light in the loafers.

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Re: Anyone else tired of Matthew Shepard this Matthew Shepard that?

Post by Asmodeanreborn » Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:43 pm

CasparMilquetoast wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:35 am
Read The Book Of Matt, it was not and never was a crime motivated by a hatred of homosexuals, although, the media loves to spin it as such. Matt Shepard wasn't killed becuase he was light in the loafers.
I hope you realize that The Book of Matt is more or less fiction, right?
Police officials interviewed after Jimenez's book's publication disputed certain claims made in the book. Dave O'Malley, the Laramie police commander over the investigations division at the time of Shepard's murder, said Jimenez's claim that Shepard was "a methamphetamine kingpin is almost humorous. Someone that would buy into that certainly would believe almost anything they read." Rob Debree, lead sheriff's investigator at the time, said the book contains "factual errors and lies", and deemed Jimenez's claim that Shepard was a drug dealer "truly laughable".
I know this doesn't dispute why Matt was killed, but it would be nice to have a better source than a book that tried to make money off of making up a bunch of random junk.

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Re: Anyone else tired of Matthew Shepard this Matthew Shepard that?

Post by ItSucksToBeACSURam » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:42 am

Asmodeanreborn wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:43 pm
CasparMilquetoast wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:35 am
Read The Book Of Matt, it was not and never was a crime motivated by a hatred of homosexuals, although, the media loves to spin it as such. Matt Shepard wasn't killed becuase he was light in the loafers.
I hope you realize that The Book of Matt is more or less fiction, right?
Police officials interviewed after Jimenez's book's publication disputed certain claims made in the book. Dave O'Malley, the Laramie police commander over the investigations division at the time of Shepard's murder, said Jimenez's claim that Shepard was "a methamphetamine kingpin is almost humorous. Someone that would buy into that certainly would believe almost anything they read." Rob Debree, lead sheriff's investigator at the time, said the book contains "factual errors and lies", and deemed Jimenez's claim that Shepard was a drug dealer "truly laughable".
I know this doesn't dispute why Matt was killed, but it would be nice to have a better source than a book that tried to make money off of making up a bunch of random junk.
Haha, what? You can disagree with the position of the book but its certainly not random junk. The book poses a viable and plausible explanation of why he was murdered. Why do you say its fiction and junk?
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Re: Anyone else tired of Matthew Shepard this Matthew Shepard that?

Post by Asmodeanreborn » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:29 pm

I mean, it's a pretty huge claim to make that Shepard was a major meth dealer in Laramie. When you make that kind of accusation, you better be able to somehow back it up, especially when local law enforcement investigators (who certainly would've noticed a change after a major player's death) call it ridiculous.

Once again, I am not saying it was a hate crime, but when you make those kinds of claims (in the book) without proof, it throws a lot of uncertainty on all your other claims as well.

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Re: Anyone else tired of Matthew Shepard this Matthew Shepard that?

Post by ItSucksToBeACSURam » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:51 pm

Asmodeanreborn wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:29 pm
I mean, it's a pretty huge claim to make that Shepard was a major meth dealer in Laramie. When you make that kind of accusation, you better be able to somehow back it up, especially when local law enforcement investigators (who certainly would've noticed a change after a major player's death) call it ridiculous.

Once again, I am not saying it was a hate crime, but when you make those kinds of claims (in the book) without proof, it throws a lot of uncertainty on all your other claims as well.
Fair enough. Can't say I disagree with your logic other than that I can't imagine he would make a leap like that without something to corroborate it.

My only comment would be that there were those involved in the investigation (in the Laramie law enforcement realm), who did agree with the theories posed by the author. I was in Junior High when this happened and have very little working knowledge of what happened back then. All I know is the research I have done since and there does appear to be at least some in different circles who refuse to accept the "official story".
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Re: Anyone else tired of Matthew Shepard this Matthew Shepard that?

Post by Asmodeanreborn » Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:11 pm

Sure, there are plenty of people who refuse to believe that doing drugs (lots of drugs) just happened to be something a LOT of people did in those days in Laramie, both among UW students as well as among kids at the high school.

And while it seems acid was the drug of choice among my friends who grew up there, it sounds like everybody at least tried pretty much everything there was to get high on. Matt definitely wasn't a kid who stayed out of all of that.

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Re: Anyone else tired of Matthew Shepard this Matthew Shepard that?

Post by 'PokeForLife » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:12 pm

Asmodeanreborn wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:29 pm

Once again, I am not saying it was a hate crime, but when you make those kinds of claims (in the book) without proof, it throws a lot of uncertainty on all your other claims as well.
Sounds like something that was said quite a bit in the senate this past month...

Not trying to derail the conversation, I just find it comical how people can use the "you can't make an accusation without proof" argument when it suits them and then simultaneously toss it aside when it is inconvenient to their story.
Obviously people on both sides of the aisle do that, which should never be the case. I just wonder how many people notice that they do.

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Re: Anyone else tired of Matthew Shepard this Matthew Shepard that?

Post by WestWYOPoke » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:19 pm

'PokeForLife wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:12 pm
Asmodeanreborn wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:29 pm

Once again, I am not saying it was a hate crime, but when you make those kinds of claims (in the book) without proof, it throws a lot of uncertainty on all your other claims as well.
Sounds like something that was said quite a bit in the senate this past month...

Not trying to derail the conversation, I just find it comical how people can use the "you can't make an accusation without proof" argument when it suits them and then simultaneously toss it aside when it is inconvenient to their story.
Obviously people on both sides of the aisle do that, which should never be the case. I just wonder how many people notice that they do.
Agreed...way too many people in this country point their fingers at "the other side" without looking at themselves first, a LOT of hypocrites out there on both sides.

/End thread derail.
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