WyoNation.com

ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:10 pm

HR_Poke wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:50 pm

ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:38 pm Some of it is simply lack of talent to try much more.

I think there is enough talent to win most games even against P5 teams. Play calling and game management kill us way more than the talent gap.

TVW and receivers are mid-level fcs talent at the moment. They might get better, but it is what it is for now.

They look like that because the coaches wont take any risks to let them develop.

HR_Poke wrote: ↑Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:41 pm

ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:10 pm

HR_Poke wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:50 pm

ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:38 pm Some of it is simply lack of talent to try much more.

I think there is enough talent to win most games even against P5 teams. Play calling and game management kill us way more than the talent gap.

TVW and receivers are mid-level fcs talent at the moment. They might get better, but it is what it is for now.

They look like that because the coaches wont take any risks to let them develop.

We'll have to agree to disagree. EVERY scouting report on Josh said the same thing; we have suspect play calling AND devoid of talent on offense. Literally every report on Josh mentioned how bad the talent is at WYO. It didn't get better since last year.

ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:47 pm

HR_Poke wrote: ↑Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:41 pm

ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:10 pm

HR_Poke wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:50 pm

ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:38 pm Some of it is simply lack of talent to try much more.

I think there is enough talent to win most games even against P5 teams. Play calling and game management kill us way more than the talent gap.

TVW and receivers are mid-level fcs talent at the moment. They might get better, but it is what it is for now.

They look like that because the coaches wont take any risks to let them develop.

We'll have to agree to disagree. EVERY scouting report on Josh said the same thing; we have suspect play calling AND devoid of talent on offense. Literally every report on Josh mentioned how bad the talent is at WYO. It didn't get better since last year.

Compared to major p5 teams sure. But tvw and the recievers as well as running backs have enough talent to win these games. Boise won tons of huge games against teams with far greater talent because of good coaching and a good game plan. Kellen Moore was a mediocre QB and good coaching made him unbeatable.

HR Poke - I completely agree. There is no other sport where coaching matters so much as football. I suspect there is plenty of talent on the offense, but they are put in positions to fail and fail hard, so we don't really know. There is plenty of talent on d, and they shine because of coaching. Stannard gone = good Wyoming defense. Vigen gone = probably a good Wyoming offense. I don't see what is hard to understand about this.

Kellen Moore spent 5 or 6 years in the NFL. That is 5 or 6 more years than the entire current WYO offensive roster ever will, combined.
His college coaching didn't make his NFL career; his talent did. Give me Moore any day.

Kellen Moore was pretty damned good. He didn’t meet the mold as far a physical traits, but I think that is were Bohl excels. He develops players into what they should be or he finds the player that doesn’t fit the typical physical mold (example: a bit slower TE but happens to be 6’7 or a DE who weighs 220 but can pass rush).

Vigen’s play calling is too conservative for me. I still think the key to this game was getting defensive pressure on the QB with the front four, which never happened. Most winnable P5 game in the Bohl era but the Pokes didn’t play well. I’m still not calling for anyone’s head, though. The offense, even at NDSU, was conservative and designed to grind games out, not put 42 on the scoreboard every game.

svpoke wrote: ↑Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:42 am Vigen’s play calling is too conservative for me. I still think the key to this game was getting defensive pressure on the QB with the front four, which never happened. Most winnable P5 game in the Bohl era but the Pokes didn’t play well. I’m still not calling for anyone’s head, though. The offense, even at NDSU, was conservative and designed to grind games out, not put 42 on the scoreboard every game.

This is such a false misconception. Look at NDSU scores from 2013. Plenty of 56-14 type of games. Make no mistake about it Bohl would like to beat teams like that here too, he just doesn’t have the talent for it.

We have enough talent to win games like Washington State. We have receivers good enough to win games but not the courage to run plays with time to get them the ball. We have to roll out or throw a quick out to on every single pass play just to play it safe. Insert the Wyoming team that beat CMU in the potato bowl and we win this game....basically the same receivers minus CJ......

Bottom line.....our scheme sucks....and we have no courage. We are going to get drilled at Missouri.....mostly because our defense will be on the field the whole day.

I hate when people claim we don't have the talent. How on earth are our receivers and QB going to look like stars if the ONLY time we pass is on third and long when everybody knows the pass is coming.

Look at the freaking NFL - how successful are NFL offenses in third and long situations? Third and long had a success rate of roughly 31% in 2014. Third and 3 was at 47%, for comparison. Those are the pros.

Imagine what a pro QB's passing stats would look like if they only passed on third and long.

ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:47 pm

HR_Poke wrote: ↑Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:41 pm

ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:10 pm

HR_Poke wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:50 pm

ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:38 pm Some of it is simply lack of talent to try much more.

I think there is enough talent to win most games even against P5 teams. Play calling and game management kill us way more than the talent gap.

TVW and receivers are mid-level fcs talent at the moment. They might get better, but it is what it is for now.

They look like that because the coaches wont take any risks to let them develop.

We'll have to agree to disagree. EVERY scouting report on Josh said the same thing; we have suspect play calling AND devoid of talent on offense. Literally every report on Josh mentioned how bad the talent is at WYO. It didn't get better since last year.

Everyone said we had no talent on defense either 2 years ago. Then we change coordinators and we jump from a defense ranked around 100 to a top 25 defense with the same players. No talent? More like bad coaching that got changed.

Give us a coach that can maximize the potential in the offensive players and call a more creative game plan and I bet we at least see some jump from our 125 ranked offense to something better. Bare in mind this offensive coach with 6 NFL players a couple years ago only had the offense ranked 48th that year, barely in the top 50 in the nation but with half the starters going to the NFL

svpoke wrote: ↑Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:42 am Vigen’s play calling is too conservative for me. I still think the key to this game was getting defensive pressure on the QB with the front four, which never happened. Most winnable P5 game in the Bohl era but the Pokes didn’t play well. I’m still not calling for anyone’s head, though. The offense, even at NDSU, was conservative and designed to grind games out, not put 42 on the scoreboard every game.

The problem with this though is at NDSU he had the best players in FCS so he could out muscle everyone until they wore down.

At Wyoming he doesn't have that luxury and never will. Wyoming isn't going to be a Big Ten team that grounds and pounds everyone until they wear down at the end of the game. He thinks because his one team at NDSU beat Kansas St at K-St (the one time) went on that last drive to win it where they ran the ball that now the ground and pound will work all the time in FBS at Wyoming. It won't. He would have better luck with it at a Big Ten school.

Offense needs to change.

seattlecowboy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:24 pmHe thinks because his one team at NDSU beat Kansas St at K-St (the one time) went on that last drive to win it where they ran the ball that now the ground and pound will work all the time in FBS at Wyoming.

He does? Where has he said this?

joshvanklomp wrote: ↑Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:18 pm

seattlecowboy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:24 pmHe thinks because his one team at NDSU beat Kansas St at K-St (the one time) went on that last drive to win it where they ran the ball that now the ground and pound will work all the time in FBS at Wyoming.

He does? Where has he said this?

He has stated before that when he beat K-St. and they went on that last drive and were able to win the game that he "knew" his style of football would work at the FBS level.

joshvanklomp wrote: ↑Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:18 pm

seattlecowboy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:24 pmHe thinks because his one team at NDSU beat Kansas St at K-St (the one time) went on that last drive to win it where they ran the ball that now the ground and pound will work all the time in FBS at Wyoming.

He does? Where has he said this?

His team had just pulled off the biggest upset of the opening week of the season. Craig Bohl’s Bison of North Dakota State had gone into Manhattan, Kansas, and didn’t just beat the defending Big 12 champs, they mauled the Wildcats, outrushing Kansas State 215-41 in primetime on a Friday night national stage.

It marked the fourth year in a row Bohl’s FCS powerhouse had beaten an FBS program, but for the former Nebraska assistant who came into the game against K-State as the two-time national champs, something was different that night.

"That gave me a firm conviction that this model will work (at the FBS level), and it’s probably time to move on," Bohl recalled.

https://www.foxsports.com/college-footb ... ing-051514

Here are some more quotes from the article.

"I know that we’re counter-culture with what’s going on with offense in college football, especially with the hurry-up offenses," he said. "We’ll sit there and snap the ball with two seconds left and play great defense and try to win the game 10-9. Or (like) against Kansas State, hope to wear the other team down. We’re gonna be a run-first football team."

He says he knows his team won’t instantly have the kind of success he was having at NDSU, but when asked how realistic it is to expect the Wyoming Cowboys to be a top 15 program in the next five years, Bohl wasn’t hedging.

"It takes years and years to build the rep of a great academic institution," he said. "It takes four years to build a football program. So the proof’s gonna be in the pudding. We’ve got a lot of work to do, but if you look at Year 3 to Year 4, there should be a significant improvement in our program."

And there has been significant improvement in the program since he took over.

Yeah, we've never had so much exceptional talent in so few years. Bohl and staff look great at recruiting and developing.

That still doesn't show Vigen is a good OC. He's probably among the worst in FBS.

joshvanklomp wrote: ↑Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:53 pm And there has been significant improvement in the program since he took over.

I agree the defense has gotten better but his "conviction" that the ground and pound will work at Wyoming is off in my opinion. He needs to change the offense. Or at least get more creative.

Hopefully with his comment today regarding needing to open up the playbook or get a bigger playbook at the press conference we will see more creativity in mixing up plays.

seattlecowboy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:03 pmI agree the defense has gotten better but his "conviction" that the ground and pound will work at Wyoming is off in my opinion. He needs to change the offense. Or at least get more creative.

Hopefully with his comment today regarding needing to open up the playbook or get a bigger playbook at the press conference we will see more creativity in mixing up plays.

I wouldn't hold my breath that he'll change the offense to an air raid style or something similar. No chance of that. Playcalling can be switched within the system, but the overall system and philosophy will stay the same.