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WyomingAgJ wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 4:51 pm These last 2 or so drives sum up my frustration with Bohls game plans.

We get a fg to start the 2nd half and a defensive stop. We have a tiny bit of momentum and move the ball to midfield on a drive that if we actually were to score in would bring the game back to a 1 score game. 4th and 1 or 1 and a half at the 50 and conservative bohl punts it.

Illinois drives field scores and makes it a 3 score game erasing any tiny bit of momentum we had and effectively winning the game.

Only at this point down 3 scores and no momentum and game likely out of reach, we call a pass on the first play of the drive for the first time all game. It's an 8 yard catch that instead becomes a first down on Illinois penalty. The drive stalls slightly later at the 45 yard line in worse field position then the drive before and now bohl goes for it.

He waits till down 3 scores with no momentum and game out of hand to ever actually have a slightly more aggressive play calling (a pass to open a drive and a 4th down attempt). We never have any agressive/surprising/interesting play calling when the game is still in question, only once it is out of reach.

I get it, player execution..., Run run run to set up the pass, blah blah blah. But the simple fact remains bohl is never anything but conservative every game until it is out of hand and doesn't matter anymore

stymeman wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 5:45 pm This in Year 9, cmon Pokes...6 friggin points...reallly.....

bullbugle307 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 7:25 pm Winning a game by scoring 7. That might be what our defense has to do this year. And as horrific as our offense was today, our D better improve a ton. This may be Bohls worst defense. They’re the only unit, aside from our FG kicker that I have any faith in right now. Very little faith after today. But if they continue to play like this this season may end with the team being top 5 bad in my lifetime. We’ve got one 1 win team, and 4 or 5 2 win teams in my life. This team and these coaches better embrace the fact that they could easily be the worst team in 35 years if they don’t show some vast improvements by seasons end. We’ve had worse losses as far as who we’ve lost to, but I don’t know that I’ve ever seen a Bohl team so thoroughly outplayed in every facet of a game.

LanderPoke wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 7:52 pm

bullbugle307 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 7:25 pm Winning a game by scoring 7. That might be what our defense has to do this year. And as horrific as our offense was today, our D better improve a ton. This may be Bohls worst defense. They’re the only unit, aside from our FG kicker that I have any faith in right now. Very little faith after today. But if they continue to play like this this season may end with the team being top 5 bad in my lifetime. We’ve got one 1 win team, and 4 or 5 2 win teams in my life. This team and these coaches better embrace the fact that they could easily be the worst team in 35 years if they don’t show some vast improvements by seasons end. We’ve had worse losses as far as who we’ve lost to, but I don’t know that I’ve ever seen a Bohl team so thoroughly outplayed in every facet of a game.

We didn’t play great, but those early Bohl defenses were wayyyyy worse than this year’s. I will be proven correct in this. Feel free to bookmark it

LanderPoke wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 7:52 pm

bullbugle307 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 7:25 pm Winning a game by scoring 7. That might be what our defense has to do this year. And as horrific as our offense was today, our D better improve a ton. This may be Bohls worst defense. They’re the only unit, aside from our FG kicker that I have any faith in right now. Very little faith after today. But if they continue to play like this this season may end with the team being top 5 bad in my lifetime. We’ve got one 1 win team, and 4 or 5 2 win teams in my life. This team and these coaches better embrace the fact that they could easily be the worst team in 35 years if they don’t show some vast improvements by seasons end. We’ve had worse losses as far as who we’ve lost to, but I don’t know that I’ve ever seen a Bohl team so thoroughly outplayed in every facet of a game.

We didn’t play great, but those early Bohl defenses were wayyyyy worse than this year’s. I will be proven correct in this. Feel free to bookmark it

Itsux2beaewe wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 8:44 pm I’ll go to the War for the super nachos…….

bullbugle307 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:02 pm

LanderPoke wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 7:52 pm

bullbugle307 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 7:25 pm Winning a game by scoring 7. That might be what our defense has to do this year. And as horrific as our offense was today, our D better improve a ton. This may be Bohls worst defense. They’re the only unit, aside from our FG kicker that I have any faith in right now. Very little faith after today. But if they continue to play like this this season may end with the team being top 5 bad in my lifetime. We’ve got one 1 win team, and 4 or 5 2 win teams in my life. This team and these coaches better embrace the fact that they could easily be the worst team in 35 years if they don’t show some vast improvements by seasons end. We’ve had worse losses as far as who we’ve lost to, but I don’t know that I’ve ever seen a Bohl team so thoroughly outplayed in every facet of a game.

We didn’t play great, but those early Bohl defenses were wayyyyy worse than this year’s. I will be proven correct in this. Feel free to bookmark it

I hope you’re right. They weren’t put in a position to succeed today. But I doubt they will be all season. And we haven’t even seen what attrition will do yet. We’re so young, what happens if we lose a handful of starters on defense. I can’t imagine our depth is any good.

I probably shouldn’t be so reactive till I see what we do in conference. But I think our defense will be on the field a ton this year. The more plays they’re out there the more chance for injuries.

307bball wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 5:03 pm

WyomingAgJ wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 4:51 pm These last 2 or so drives sum up my frustration with Bohls game plans.

We get a fg to start the 2nd half and a defensive stop. We have a tiny bit of momentum and move the ball to midfield on a drive that if we actually were to score in would bring the game back to a 1 score game. 4th and 1 or 1 and a half at the 50 and conservative bohl punts it.

Illinois drives field scores and makes it a 3 score game erasing any tiny bit of momentum we had and effectively winning the game.

Only at this point down 3 scores and no momentum and game likely out of reach, we call a pass on the first play of the drive for the first time all game. It's an 8 yard catch that instead becomes a first down on Illinois penalty. The drive stalls slightly later at the 45 yard line in worse field position then the drive before and now bohl goes for it.

He waits till down 3 scores with no momentum and game out of hand to ever actually have a slightly more aggressive play calling (a pass to open a drive and a 4th down attempt). We never have any agressive/surprising/interesting play calling when the game is still in question, only once it is out of reach.

I get it, player execution..., Run run run to set up the pass, blah blah blah. But the simple fact remains bohl is never anything but conservative every game until it is out of hand and doesn't matter anymore

I mean...I agree....but it's really easy to say that "if he goes for it they make it a one score game" ... it's more likely that they don't make it and Illinois scores with a short field and then we are killing him for going for it. What is going on is way deeper than scheme / decision making / play calling. We have always been at a disadvantage against B10 programs but I think we are starting to see it snowball. Illinois is not a powerhouse but they have better players at every position than most of the MWC. Coaching matters but when you can win every one on one matchup on the field....it doesn't matter as much.

flyfishwyo wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 6:28 pm

307bball wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 5:03 pm
I mean...I agree....but it's really easy to say that "if he goes for it they make it a one score game" ... it's more likely that they don't make it and Illinois scores with a short field and then we are killing him for going for it. What is going on is way deeper than scheme / decision making / play calling. We have always been at a disadvantage against B10 programs but I think we are starting to see it snowball. Illinois is not a powerhouse but they have better players at every position than most of the MWC. Coaching matters but when you can win every one on one matchup on the field....it doesn't matter as much.

I disagree. When we regularly lose to equal or lesser MWC talent, it's all scheme/decision making/play calling.
I also didn't see a giant talent gap in this game. Far less than pre-Bohl. The first thing I would praise Bohl on is his ability to recruit and sign talent. I also give him a lot of credit for a defensive scheme that works with the talent we have against most of the teams we play.
The offense is a different story. We usually under perform our talent level. The scheme doesn't put receivers in a place an average QB can get them the ball. We run into 7 or 8 man fronts all the time. Aren't in a place to take advantage of defensive mistakes. And it doesn't ever change. That's what will end his career at Wyoming.

307bball wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 8:13 pm

flyfishwyo wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 6:28 pm

307bball wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 5:03 pm
I mean...I agree....but it's really easy to say that "if he goes for it they make it a one score game" ... it's more likely that they don't make it and Illinois scores with a short field and then we are killing him for going for it. What is going on is way deeper than scheme / decision making / play calling. We have always been at a disadvantage against B10 programs but I think we are starting to see it snowball. Illinois is not a powerhouse but they have better players at every position than most of the MWC. Coaching matters but when you can win every one on one matchup on the field....it doesn't matter as much.

I disagree. When we regularly lose to equal or lesser MWC talent, it's all scheme/decision making/play calling.
I also didn't see a giant talent gap in this game. Far less than pre-Bohl. The first thing I would praise Bohl on is his ability to recruit and sign talent. I also give him a lot of credit for a defensive scheme that works with the talent we have against most of the teams we play.
The offense is a different story. We usually under perform our talent level. The scheme doesn't put receivers in a place an average QB can get them the ball. We run into 7 or 8 man fronts all the time. Aren't in a place to take advantage of defensive mistakes. And it doesn't ever change. That's what will end his career at Wyoming.

If you don't think that Illinois was better than us at every position .... I'm not sure that you and I can have a coherent discussion about football. One team win's every one on one matchup and you "don't see a giant talent gap" Lol. Some of them were slightly better and some were a lot better...add that up over offense, defense and special teams and, to me, that is the definition of a "giant talent gap".

This is not a defense of Bohl ... far from it. Over the last 6 or so years, he has squandered maybe the last real opportunity to put the UW football program back close to the heights of the past. I had somewhat followed the pokes in the offseason and was pretty much ready for what I saw on Saturday. I though perhaps Bohl would pull a rabbit out of a hat and all of my finely honed senses that can detect a cowboy program in decline were just off...sadly my senses were dead on. Could Bohl have called/schemed a better game...sure ... of course. But our QB and WR corp specifically could not have scored two touchdowns if prime Mike leach were at the helm....they....just...stink. To me that is the problem with Bohl...not that he ran the wrong scheme or called the wrong effing play on third and effing 8.

What about the defense you say? Color me not impressed...they were better than the offense but is that saying anything? They gave up over 6 yards per rushing attempt and forced no turnovers. I've seen worse pokes defenses but this was not great.

flyfishwyo wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 11:54 am

307bball wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 8:13 pm

flyfishwyo wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 6:28 pm

307bball wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 5:03 pm
I mean...I agree....but it's really easy to say that "if he goes for it they make it a one score game" ... it's more likely that they don't make it and Illinois scores with a short field and then we are killing him for going for it. What is going on is way deeper than scheme / decision making / play calling. We have always been at a disadvantage against B10 programs but I think we are starting to see it snowball. Illinois is not a powerhouse but they have better players at every position than most of the MWC. Coaching matters but when you can win every one on one matchup on the field....it doesn't matter as much.

I disagree. When we regularly lose to equal or lesser MWC talent, it's all scheme/decision making/play calling.
I also didn't see a giant talent gap in this game. Far less than pre-Bohl. The first thing I would praise Bohl on is his ability to recruit and sign talent. I also give him a lot of credit for a defensive scheme that works with the talent we have against most of the teams we play.
The offense is a different story. We usually under perform our talent level. The scheme doesn't put receivers in a place an average QB can get them the ball. We run into 7 or 8 man fronts all the time. Aren't in a place to take advantage of defensive mistakes. And it doesn't ever change. That's what will end his career at Wyoming.

If you don't think that Illinois was better than us at every position .... I'm not sure that you and I can have a coherent discussion about football. One team win's every one on one matchup and you "don't see a giant talent gap" Lol. Some of them were slightly better and some were a lot better...add that up over offense, defense and special teams and, to me, that is the definition of a "giant talent gap".

This is not a defense of Bohl ... far from it. Over the last 6 or so years, he has squandered maybe the last real opportunity to put the UW football program back close to the heights of the past. I had somewhat followed the pokes in the offseason and was pretty much ready for what I saw on Saturday. I though perhaps Bohl would pull a rabbit out of a hat and all of my finely honed senses that can detect a cowboy program in decline were just off...sadly my senses were dead on. Could Bohl have called/schemed a better game...sure ... of course. But our QB and WR corp specifically could not have scored two touchdowns if prime Mike leach were at the helm....they....just...stink. To me that is the problem with Bohl...not that he ran the wrong scheme or called the wrong effing play on third and effing 8.

What about the defense you say? Color me not impressed...they were better than the offense but is that saying anything? They gave up over 6 yards per rushing attempt and forced no turnovers. I've seen worse pokes defenses but this was not great.

You're making the "Jimmys and Joes" argument. I get that. Illinois is more talented at nearly every position than us. The talent gap is wider this year than last year, due largely to the talent we lost to transfers. It probably exists every year, even when Illinois is terrible. I believe the talent gap between Wyoming and lower level A5 schools is less under Bohl than it was under Christenson, Glenn, and Koenig. We can argue about that. I might even be able to put together a few coherent discussion points.

I'm making the "Xs and Os" argument. Scheme/decision making/play calling matters. Every team tweaks or changes to accommodate strengths/weaknesses in personnel. Except us. Bohl continues to run a pro style offense without QBs who can deliver the long passes it tends to require (look at the two that should have been picked off). I'm not even sure if we have decent receivers or not because we put them in a position where they have to beat two defenders on every play. We ran 02 or 12 personnel on a bunch of third and long plays. If we don't even put receivers on the field for obvious passing downs, how do we know if they're any good? The scheme matters. Our offensive scheme has regressed over Bohl's tenure.