Taylor Martinez vs. Brett Smith

[Landlordos7]

Ok, what I don't get is that you defend Martinez because of his injury in 2011, yet when comparing Smith last season, there is no mention of his concussions.
Martinez is good like I said, but not the passer Smith is. Martinez may be built for Nebraska's offense, but Smith is the better QB. Even with the adjusted defenses, Smith ends up as a better QB producing more for his team.
I don't know if you saw that article comparing SEC to MWC quartebacks, but the MWC had 6 in the Top 25 from last year which was adjusted for opposing defenses.

I mean, how are these defenses being adjusted? Because before adjustments, they pass for the same completion percentage, the same yards, nearly the same quarterback rating and touchdowns, yet Taylor also ran for 800 yards on top of it with 10 extra scores. Brett played in fewer games, so his numbers would go up higher, yet his efficiency and production statistics (quality, not quantity) were almost the same as Martinez' against notably worse defensive talent.

You're the one making audacious claims about who is better and who is worse. I've never done that, nor will I. They're two different players in two different conferences and offenses - the only reason I'm comparing the two is because you are.

Objectively, if the numbers are similar, I'll take the quarterback that got his numbers against Michigan, Ohio State, South Carolina, Georgia, etc. every single time over the one that plays Idaho, Air Force and whoever else.

[Landlordos7]

I get that it's adjusted. That simply means that MWC QBs are as good AGAINST MWC DEFENSES as SEC QBs are against SEC defenses.

This isn't rocket science.

I haven't read this article, but I think he's saying they did some mathematical voodoo to claim that MWC quarterbacks would be as good against SEC defenses as SEC quarterbacks are??

[knapplc]

I get that it's adjusted. That simply means that MWC QBs are as good AGAINST MWC DEFENSES as SEC QBs are against SEC defenses.

This isn't rocket science.

I haven't read this article, but I think he's saying they did some mathematical voodoo to claim that MWC quarterbacks would be as good against SEC defenses as SEC quarterbacks are??

He's not grasping the relative numbers of their adjusted stats. He's looking at the adjustment and saying the QBs are equal, when clearly they're not.

Put Carr, Keeton, Fales or Smith in the SEC and they'd be third-string, easy. Martinez would still be first-string - but he'd be playing Safety.

[fromolwyoming]

Ok, what I don't get is that you defend Martinez because of his injury in 2011, yet when comparing Smith last season, there is no mention of his concussions.
Martinez is good like I said, but not the passer Smith is. Martinez may be built for Nebraska's offense, but Smith is the better QB. Even with the adjusted defenses, Smith ends up as a better QB producing more for his team.
I don't know if you saw that article comparing SEC to MWC quartebacks, but the MWC had 6 in the Top 25 from last year which was adjusted for opposing defenses.

I mean, how are these defenses being adjusted? Because before adjustments, they pass for the same completion percentage, the same yards, nearly the same quarterback rating and touchdowns, yet Taylor also ran for 800 yards on top of it with 10 extra scores. Brett played in fewer games, so his numbers would go up higher, yet his efficiency and production statistics (quality, not quantity) were almost the same as Martinez' against notably worse defensive talent.

You're the one making audacious claims about who is better and who is worse. I've never done that, nor will I. They're two different players in two different conferences and offenses - the only reason I'm comparing the two is because you are.

Objectively, if the numbers are similar, I'll take the quarterback that got his numbers against Michigan, Ohio State, South Carolina, Georgia, etc. every single time over the one that plays Idaho, Air Force and whoever else.

Put it this way, if Brett Smith had Nebraska's O-line, Nebraska would not have to rely so much the run game by itself. His o-line last year was not that good. 3 and 4 man rushes (no blitzing) would almost always create instant pressure, forcing Smith to have to scramble to avoid getting sacked. Give him an average o-line or above, he's shredding defenses.

[Landlordos7]

Ok, what I don't get is that you defend Martinez because of his injury in 2011, yet when comparing Smith last season, there is no mention of his concussions.
Martinez is good like I said, but not the passer Smith is. Martinez may be built for Nebraska's offense, but Smith is the better QB. Even with the adjusted defenses, Smith ends up as a better QB producing more for his team.
I don't know if you saw that article comparing SEC to MWC quartebacks, but the MWC had 6 in the Top 25 from last year which was adjusted for opposing defenses.

I mean, how are these defenses being adjusted? Because before adjustments, they pass for the same completion percentage, the same yards, nearly the same quarterback rating and touchdowns, yet Taylor also ran for 800 yards on top of it with 10 extra scores. Brett played in fewer games, so his numbers would go up higher, yet his efficiency and production statistics (quality, not quantity) were almost the same as Martinez' against notably worse defensive talent.

You're the one making audacious claims about who is better and who is worse. I've never done that, nor will I. They're two different players in two different conferences and offenses - the only reason I'm comparing the two is because you are.

Objectively, if the numbers are similar, I'll take the quarterback that got his numbers against Michigan, Ohio State, South Carolina, Georgia, etc. every single time over the one that plays Idaho, Air Force and whoever else.

Put it this way, if Brett Smith had Nebraska's O-line, Nebraska would not have to rely so much the run game by itself. His o-line last year was not that good. 3 and 4 man rushes (no blitzing) would almost always create instant pressure, forcing Smith to have to scramble to avoid getting sacked. Give him an average o-line or above, he's shredding defenses.

Fair enough - there's something to be said for having better players around you to make you a better player. However, we don't rely on the run game in the way you're making it sound, as if we aren't capable of passing it. We're plenty capable of passing, and will pass more this season - we run the football because we're good at it and because it wins football games. If we had Peyton Manning as our quarterback we would still run the football.

[seattlecowboy]

Okay first off I will say that Taylor Martinez is a lot better than a lot of the Wyoming fans here are giving him credit for. I'm a Wyoming fan but I do handicap sports all year 'round and can talk about this without being delusional or a homer.

Taylor Martinez improved dramatically last year compared to his sophomore year throwing the football and has probably improved more going into his senior year. He will surprise a lot of the Wyoming fans who haven't seen him play since 2011.The games where he struggled was against teams with a lot better defenses than Wyoming has. He put up some great numbers in quite a few games last year.

Now with that said Brett Smith is the better passer and there is a reason he is listed as the #3 NFL Qb prospect for juniors.
He will also surprise a lot of Nebraska fans this weekend. Does that mean he is a better college QB than Taylor Martinez? Not necessarily. College and the NFL are two completely different animals. Brett has a better chance of playing on Sundays than Taylor does but who knows if either of them will make it there. Time will tell. The good news is both get to prove it on the field.

Now to this argument above about the ESPN article and the adjusted defenses is comical. Obviously everyone knows that SEC defenses are better than MWC defenses are but they did adjust them (however they do it) and they came up with the MWC having a pretty good crop of QB's.

To the Nebraska fans saying that you can't make adjustments and basically that the QB's in the MWC only get good stats because they play crappy defenses doesn't hold any water. If that were the case then Joe Flacco wouldn't be starting for the Baltimore Ravens because he played at Delaware in the Colonial Athletic Association league in the mighty FCS. Ben Roethlisberger wouldn't be starting for the Pittsburgh Steelers because he played at a behemoth MAC school for Miami Ohio.
The list can go on and on. I think you get my point? Doesn't have to be at the QB position either as lots of small school players make it to the league and start on NFL teams.

Just because a QB is playing at a smaller school doesn't mean he wouldn't have good stats against some of the bigger schools. Maybe Smith wouldn't have as good of stats playing for Wyoming against an SEC schedule but if you put Brett Smith on Georgia or Florida or Ohio State then he would definitely rack up some stats on those defenses because he would be surrounded by overall better players top to bottom. Now I'm not saying Brett Smith is Flacco or Ben Roethlisberger . Hopefully you get my point though.

If you don't want to use Brett Smith for the example than insert whatever smaller school QB you want to put into it. Carr, Fales , Keeton, etc....

Hopefully that makes sense to some of you who don't seem to be getting it.

[stymeman]

question we need to throw out there, if both are drafted who goes higher in the draft?? hmmmm

[Landlordos7]

Okay first off I will say that Taylor Martinez is a lot better than a lot of the Wyoming fans here are giving him credit for. I'm a Wyoming fan but I do handicap sports all year 'round and can talk about this without being delusional or a homer.

Taylor Martinez improved dramatically last year compared to his sophomore year throwing the football and has probably improved more going into his senior year. He will surprise a lot of the Wyoming fans who haven't seen him play since 2011.The games where he struggled was against teams with a lot better defenses than Wyoming has. He put up some great numbers in quite a few games last year.

Now with that said Brett Smith is the better passer and there is a reason he is listed as the #3 NFL Qb prospect for juniors.
He will also surprise a lot of Nebraska fans this weekend. Does that mean he is a better college QB than Taylor Martinez? Not necessarily. College and the NFL are two completely different animals. Brett has a better chance of playing on Sundays than Taylor does but who knows if either of them will make it there. Time will tell. The good news is both get to prove it on the field.

Now to this argument above about the ESPN article and the adjusted defenses is comical. Obviously everyone knows that SEC defenses are better than MWC defenses are but they did adjust them (however they do it) and they came up with the MWC having a pretty good crop of QB's.

To the Nebraska fans saying that you can't make adjustments and basically that the QB's in the MWC only get good stats because they play crappy defenses doesn't hold any water. If that were the case then Joe Flacco wouldn't be starting for the Baltimore Ravens because he played at Delaware in the Colonial Athletic Association league in the mighty FCS. Ben Roethlisberger wouldn't be starting for the Pittsburgh Steelers because he played at a behemoth MAC school for Miami Ohio.
The list can go on and on. I think you get my point? Doesn't have to be at the QB position either as lots of small school players make it to the league and start on NFL teams.

Just because a QB is playing at a smaller school doesn't mean he wouldn't have good stats against some of the bigger schools. Maybe Smith wouldn't have as good of stats playing for Wyoming against an SEC schedule but if you put Brett Smith on Georgia or Florida or Ohio State then he would definitely rack up some stats on those defenses because he would be surrounded by overall better players top to bottom. Now I'm not saying Brett Smith is Flacco or Ben Roethlisberger . Hopefully you get my point though.

If you don't want to use Brett Smith for the example than insert whatever smaller school QB you want to put into it. Carr, Fales , Keeton, etc....

Hopefully that makes sense to some of you who don't seem to be getting it.

I get it, makes sense to me and this is a good post. You always have to weigh that playing in tougher conferences you go up against better competition but you also have better talent surrounding you to even it out. In fact, the ultimate all-time everything quarterbacks in college don't usually do much in the league (Tim Tebow is the only Heisman winning quarterback of the last 20 years to win a playoff game), while players like Roethlisberger, Kaepernick, Flacco and co. are playing at a very high level.

I like Brett Smith - definitely a fan, he's got moxy and wiggle and I remember thinking those things in 2011. He's got a goofy short arm delivery (ironic with all the comments about Martinez' throwing motion), but he's a baller and will be a real test for our secondary. I just don't think he's quite as great as Wyoming fans think he is - which is fine, Martinez probably isn't as great as we think he is either. You literally have posters on your rivals board saying he's second only to Johnny Manziel in the country, that we've never seen a quarterback the likes of him, etc.

[J-Rod]

Love all this banter. All I can say is....somebody is going to be wrong on Saturday. The crow is in the oven......who is going to eat it?

[seattlecowboy]

Okay first off I will say that Taylor Martinez is a lot better than a lot of the Wyoming fans here are giving him credit for. I'm a Wyoming fan but I do handicap sports all year 'round and can talk about this without being delusional or a homer.

Taylor Martinez improved dramatically last year compared to his sophomore year throwing the football and has probably improved more going into his senior year. He will surprise a lot of the Wyoming fans who haven't seen him play since 2011.The games where he struggled was against teams with a lot better defenses than Wyoming has. He put up some great numbers in quite a few games last year.

Now with that said Brett Smith is the better passer and there is a reason he is listed as the #3 NFL Qb prospect for juniors.
He will also surprise a lot of Nebraska fans this weekend. Does that mean he is a better college QB than Taylor Martinez? Not necessarily. College and the NFL are two completely different animals. Brett has a better chance of playing on Sundays than Taylor does but who knows if either of them will make it there. Time will tell. The good news is both get to prove it on the field.

Now to this argument above about the ESPN article and the adjusted defenses is comical. Obviously everyone knows that SEC defenses are better than MWC defenses are but they did adjust them (however they do it) and they came up with the MWC having a pretty good crop of QB's.

To the Nebraska fans saying that you can't make adjustments and basically that the QB's in the MWC only get good stats because they play crappy defenses doesn't hold any water. If that were the case then Joe Flacco wouldn't be starting for the Baltimore Ravens because he played at Delaware in the Colonial Athletic Association league in the mighty FCS. Ben Roethlisberger wouldn't be starting for the Pittsburgh Steelers because he played at a behemoth MAC school for Miami Ohio.
The list can go on and on. I think you get my point? Doesn't have to be at the QB position either as lots of small school players make it to the league and start on NFL teams.

Just because a QB is playing at a smaller school doesn't mean he wouldn't have good stats against some of the bigger schools. Maybe Smith wouldn't have as good of stats playing for Wyoming against an SEC schedule but if you put Brett Smith on Georgia or Florida or Ohio State then he would definitely rack up some stats on those defenses because he would be surrounded by overall better players top to bottom. Now I'm not saying Brett Smith is Flacco or Ben Roethlisberger . Hopefully you get my point though.

If you don't want to use Brett Smith for the example than insert whatever smaller school QB you want to put into it. Carr, Fales , Keeton, etc....

Hopefully that makes sense to some of you who don't seem to be getting it.

I get it, makes sense to me and this is a good post. You always have to weigh that playing in tougher conferences you go up against better competition but you also have better talent surrounding you to even it out. In fact, the ultimate all-time everything quarterbacks in college don't usually do much in the league (Tim Tebow is the only Heisman winning quarterback of the last 20 years to win a playoff game), while players like Roethlisberger, Kaepernick, Flacco and co. are playing at a very high level.

I like Brett Smith - definitely a fan, he's got moxy and wiggle and I remember thinking those things in 2011. He's got a goofy short arm delivery (ironic with all the comments about Martinez' throwing motion), but he's a baller and will be a real test for our secondary. I just don't think he's quite as great as Wyoming fans think he is - which is fine, Martinez probably isn't as great as we think he is either. You literally have posters on your rivals board saying he's second only to Johnny Manziel in the country, that we've never seen a quarterback the likes of him, etc.

Yeah i saw those posts but you have to realize the guy who posted that is a pretty funny guy and does it on purpose to rile up other fan bases and a lot of Nebraska fans took the bait. I do believe he thinks Smith is a better QB than Martinez is but I am not really sure if he believes that Smith is only 2nd to Johnny Football or not. He can speak for himself on that.

Smith does has a short arm delivery but he seems to get the job done (almost by himself). Not sure if he changed that up at all in the off season or not. I actually got stoned on this board back in February for saying that Smith might only be the 3rd or 4th best QB at that point in time in the MWC not because I didn't think Smith was a great QB but only because the MWC is loaded with QB's this year. I do think Brett can improve from where he is and make his stock go up more as he is a gamer. He may be the best QB in the MWC this year. The only knock I really have on Smith is that sometimes when he throws his deep ball it hangs up too much so if he can put more zip on that throw then I think he can make all of the throws needed for the NFL. He has had a bad offensive line and no running game his first two years to be honest and to be fair to him.

Taylor impressed me last year when I watched the first game against Southern Mississippi as I could tell he had really improved his passing style and was very accurate. I watched enough of him in other games last year that I think he will have a monster year this year and he will surprise a lot of people.

I think a lot of Wyoming fans have been frustrated with the team so they hang their hat on Brett Smith as being a bright spot.

[one-smooth-poke]

Martinez's playing style is similar to Colin Kaepernick before he improved his throwing mechanics going into this junior year. Disastrous thrower, dominant runner. He's effective, but not an NFL QB no doubt. Still....I wouldn't mock the dude. With that O-Line in front of him, he and his running game could put up monster numbers on UW.

Hey J-Rod,

From all your posts, it is starting to appear that your becoming anti-wyoming...why not go to the Nebraska board? I have not seen one encouraging post on football in a month.

I will say it..and Mock Martinez. He was why Wisconsin dropped 70 on Nebraska. He is why they lost their bowl game. I will mock him. He loves to throw an interception. He is a running back, not a quarterback. He has a high propensity to fumble. So that makes him a crappy running back.

Like Kaepernick? Are you outta you fricken mind? Kaepernick can complete passes, is twice as quick and is football smart. The same cannot be said for Martinez (unless he shows some maturity Saturday).

I have not predicted Wyoming to win, but I dam sure have not degraded the team either. I think Wyo can win. But I certainly think it will be a closer game than you and the rest of the Husker's think it will be.

GO POKES!

[Landlordos7]

Martinez's playing style is similar to Colin Kaepernick before he improved his throwing mechanics going into this junior year. Disastrous thrower, dominant runner. He's effective, but not an NFL QB no doubt. Still....I wouldn't mock the dude. With that O-Line in front of him, he and his running game could put up monster numbers on UW.

Hey J-Rod,

From all your posts, it is starting to appear that your becoming anti-wyoming...why not go to the Nebraska board? I have not seen one encouraging post on football in a month.

I will say it..and Mock Martinez. He was why Wisconsin dropped 70 on Nebraska. He is why they lost their bowl game. I will mock him. He loves to throw an interception. He is a running back, not a quarterback. He has a high propensity to fumble. So that makes him a crappy running back.

Like Kaepernick? Are you outta you fricken mind? Kaepernick can complete passes, is twice as quick and is football smart. The same cannot be said for Martinez (unless he shows some maturity Saturday).

I have not predicted Wyoming to win, but I dam sure have not degraded the team either. I think Wyo can win. But I certainly think it will be a closer game than you and the rest of the Husker's think it will be.

GO POKES!

I won't bother with most of the strawmen in this post, except for one:

Taylor Martinez runs in the 4.3 range (are you really saying Colin Kaepernick runs a 2.15 40 yard dash? ) and Taylor actually, in fact, has better career numbers through three years than Kaepernick did going into his senior season.

If Martinez stays healthy, he'll join Kaepernick as the only two quarterbacks in history to pass for 9,000 and rush for 3,000 yards in a career.

[knapplc]

I will say it..and Mock Martinez. He was why Wisconsin dropped 70 on Nebraska. He is why they lost their bowl game. I will mock him. He loves to throw an interception. He is a running back, not a quarterback. He has a high propensity to fumble. So that makes him a crappy running back.

Taylor Martinez doesn't play defense. He's a Quarterback - that's an offensive position. He can't have allowed Wisconsin to score 70 points because he wasn't on the field when they scored (well - most of them. Our WR dropped a pass directly into the hands of their DB, who ran it in for a score).

Martinez does fumble a lot. But not against bad competition - like, say, a defense ranked in the bottom 10% of D1. The vast majority of his turnovers came against top-tier defenses like Michigan State, Ohio State and Georgia, where he threw 66% of his INTs. Against weak defenses he threw... wait a minute... carry the two... divide by pi.... account for coriolis effect...

Oh, that's right - he threw zero interceptions against defenses ranked 50th or below last year. Zero. To put it in terms relevant to this thread, that's five fewer interceptions than Brett Smith threw against weak defenses.

[T-Magic3]

question we need to throw out there, if both are drafted who goes higher in the draft?? hmmmm

It's too bad this is college.. Not the NFL. I think every Husker fan would agree with you there. Poorly constructed argument, but I expect that from you.

[BeaverPoke]

question we need to throw out there, if both are drafted who goes higher in the draft?? hmmmm

It's too bad this is college.. Not the NFL. I think every Husker fan would agree with you there. Poorly constructed argument, but I expect that from you.

Lol t-magic you are an idiot.

[YankPoke]

All I have to say on this debate is that I watch Nebraska a lot since my brother has a roommate that is a Husker fan. Whenever I watch them he is always nothing special, and Nebraska wins in spite of him and not because of him. Brett is a much better QB and he always will be, and will be drafted and Martinez likely won't. I have never seen a game where Martinez impressed me very much, I would say based on the eye test he would be one of the worst QB's in a big conference.

[Landlordos7]

I would say based on the eye test he would be one of the worst QB's in a big conference.

You might need your vision checked, since he's 1st Team All Big-Ten as selected by the coaches who gameplan for him

[YankPoke]

I would say based on the eye test he would be one of the worst QB's in a big conference.

You might need your vision checked, since he's 1st Team All Big-Ten as selected by the coaches who gameplan for him

He won't be at the end of the year, there is one decent quarterback in the Big ten and he resides in Ohio not Nebraska. Martinez probably wouldn't start on half of the teams around the Mountain West let alone if we look at the Pac 12 SEC ACC and Big 12

[trouble]

I would say based on the eye test he would be one of the worst QB's in a big conference.

You might need your vision checked, since he's 1st Team All Big-Ten as selected by the coaches who gameplan for him

He won't be at the end of the year, there is one decent quarterback in the Big ten and he resides in Ohio not Nebraska. Martinez probably wouldn't start on half of the teams around the Mountain West let alone if we look at the Pac 12 SEC ACC and Big 12

I have... no words for the sheer amount of ignorance that this poster displays. Wow.

[kdwrightuwyo]

Okay first off I will say that Taylor Martinez is a lot better than a lot of the Wyoming fans here are giving him credit for. I'm a Wyoming fan but I do handicap sports all year 'round and can talk about this without being delusional or a homer.

Taylor Martinez improved dramatically last year compared to his sophomore year throwing the football and has probably improved more going into his senior year. He will surprise a lot of the Wyoming fans who haven't seen him play since 2011.The games where he struggled was against teams with a lot better defenses than Wyoming has. He put up some great numbers in quite a few games last year.

Now with that said Brett Smith is the better passer and there is a reason he is listed as the #3 NFL Qb prospect for juniors.
He will also surprise a lot of Nebraska fans this weekend. Does that mean he is a better college QB than Taylor Martinez? Not necessarily. College and the NFL are two completely different animals. Brett has a better chance of playing on Sundays than Taylor does but who knows if either of them will make it there. Time will tell. The good news is both get to prove it on the field.

Now to this argument above about the ESPN article and the adjusted defenses is comical. Obviously everyone knows that SEC defenses are better than MWC defenses are but they did adjust them (however they do it) and they came up with the MWC having a pretty good crop of QB's.

To the Nebraska fans saying that you can't make adjustments and basically that the QB's in the MWC only get good stats because they play crappy defenses doesn't hold any water. If that were the case then Joe Flacco wouldn't be starting for the Baltimore Ravens because he played at Delaware in the Colonial Athletic Association league in the mighty FCS. Ben Roethlisberger wouldn't be starting for the Pittsburgh Steelers because he played at a behemoth MAC school for Miami Ohio.
The list can go on and on. I think you get my point? Doesn't have to be at the QB position either as lots of small school players make it to the league and start on NFL teams.

Just because a QB is playing at a smaller school doesn't mean he wouldn't have good stats against some of the bigger schools. Maybe Smith wouldn't have as good of stats playing for Wyoming against an SEC schedule but if you put Brett Smith on Georgia or Florida or Ohio State then he would definitely rack up some stats on those defenses because he would be surrounded by overall better players top to bottom. Now I'm not saying Brett Smith is Flacco or Ben Roethlisberger . Hopefully you get my point though.

If you don't want to use Brett Smith for the example than insert whatever smaller school QB you want to put into it. Carr, Fales , Keeton, etc....

Hopefully that makes sense to some of you who don't seem to be getting it.

I get it, makes sense to me and this is a good post. You always have to weigh that playing in tougher conferences you go up against better competition but you also have better talent surrounding you to even it out. In fact, the ultimate all-time everything quarterbacks in college don't usually do much in the league (Tim Tebow is the only Heisman winning quarterback of the last 20 years to win a playoff game), while players like Roethlisberger, Kaepernick, Flacco and co. are playing at a very high level.

I like Brett Smith - definitely a fan, he's got moxy and wiggle and I remember thinking those things in 2011. He's got a goofy short arm delivery (ironic with all the comments about Martinez' throwing motion), but he's a baller and will be a real test for our secondary. I just don't think he's quite as great as Wyoming fans think he is - which is fine, Martinez probably isn't as great as we think he is either. You literally have posters on your rivals board saying he's second only to Johnny Manziel in the country, that we've never seen a quarterback the likes of him, etc.

We may have guys (Beaver) on our board who are saying Brett is second only to Johnny Football. But you guys have guys on our boards saying Martinez is the best. Head to head an challenge, Brett smokes Martinez.