How to End NIL?

[OrediggerPoke]

Nil does need to end. I could see the title IX argument working. Odd they’ve used title IX for all sorts of things except when a dude is swimming on the girls team.

on cue! a group of like women athletes suing for title IX violations.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/15/sport/nc ... index.html

I hope they win that one too. It’s ridiculous that biological men could compete against women given the obvious advantages.

Although that suit is pretty unrelated to NIL. The Oregon suit is directly the NIL argument.

[ragtimejoe1]

Saw a great quote on this. Lawsuits will only define the boundaries of collectives. By then they'll know how to operate.

[WYO_Fan_inPA]

It's still free market enterprise. The only solution is some sort of structure that players agree to. I'm not sure that will be possible. Why would the players give anything up at this point? The courts have put the ball in their court and they have no motivation to give it up.

Tiered football will be the first step. The further down the tiers, the less nil money floating around. We'll be somewhere at or just above fcs when the dust settles. I believe some of the current p5 won't be able to survive and will create the level below the big dogs. Nil will still matter some in that group. Bsu et al will get in that group; we won't.

The players won’t give up anything. But what they are doing is actually moving the needle in the direction of less opportunities for student athletes in future years because schools will begin dropping athletics.

While I’m all for the free market, Title IX decisions have been pretty clear that equal opportunities must exist for men and women in higher education and college athletics regardless as to any revenues actually generated. Congress can and has legislated around the free market in this regard.

Totally agree with this. It might end up football and basketball the only survivors.

[WYO_Fan_inPA]

I also feel there are too many changes coming too fast with NIL. For instance, NIL is very new. But now schools like Dartmouth are making players "employees". Why push the unionization/employee issue so quickly? As it was said above, schools could very likely drop sports to not deal with this. It dooms the olympic sports like track and field, swimming, etc. because there is no true professional route...

[Poke in New England]

I also feel there are too many changes coming too fast with NIL. For instance, NIL is very new. But now schools like Dartmouth are making players "employees". Why push the unionization/employee issue so quickly? As it was said above, schools could very likely drop sports to not deal with this. It dooms the olympic sports like track and field, swimming, etc. because there is no true professional route...

Just to be clear on Dartmouth, they are fighting the unionization effort. The University came out with a statement strongly disagreeing with the idea that their athletes are employees.

[307bball]

I don't think the "athletes as employee" model does us any favors either. All that will do is allow the big budgeted guys to pay more directly to athletes .... will have the same effect as NIL does currently.

I think having some group consisting of the NCAA, Conferences and congress enforcing a revenue sharing model is about as good as we can hope for.

[LawPoke]

The NIL genie is out of the bottle. In some form, paying athletes is now part of the bargain. My guess is that the demand for more money accelerates, with calls for media rights sharing, etc. With Title IX, there will be legal requirements to elevate women's equity in the pay scheme, which will only increase the sticker price to field a slate of athletics teams.

[ragtimejoe1]

As long as there is sufficient separation of collectives and universities, title ix is a non-issue. Sufficient separation of these 2 will happen. The rest is wishful thinking by fans of the havenots.

[ragtimejoe1]

The NIL genie is out of the bottle. In some form, paying athletes is now part of the bargain. My guess is that the demand for more money accelerates, with calls for media rights sharing, etc. With Title IX, there will be legal requirements to elevate women's equity in the pay scheme, which will only increase the sticker price to field a slate of athletics teams.

I think this is accurate but 2 seperate issues are arising. Media and other revenue by universities along with NIL. I too think some sort of profit share system will shake out as a result of the pending lawsuits. Divisions within college athletics will be created based on those that can profit share and those that can't.

I think the future of nil is less clear. Technically that's a private endorsement deal once the guidelines are established. I imagine they won't be able to regulate it much. I wonder if there are rules in pro sports? Would it be possible for nfl fans to pay a collective not associated with the team and the collective paid players?

[LawPoke]

The NIL genie is out of the bottle. In some form, paying athletes is now part of the bargain. My guess is that the demand for more money accelerates, with calls for media rights sharing, etc. With Title IX, there will be legal requirements to elevate women's equity in the pay scheme, which will only increase the sticker price to field a slate of athletics teams.

I think the future of nil is less clear. Technically that's a private endorsement deal once the guidelines are established. I imagine they won't be able to regulate it much. I wonder if there are rules in pro sports? Would it be possible for nfl fans to pay a collective not associated with the team and the collective paid players?

Absent an antitrust exemption from Congress, the NCAA cannot regulate anything. The courts have been clear. Given the dysfunction of Congress and lack of consensus on the topic, I don't expect to see anything happening on the legislative front.

As for the collectives, you are most correct that so long as they are wholly separate from the Universities, Title IX and other federal laws cannot be brought to bear. The issue is that the line between the collectives and the university brass, foundations, coaches, and general apparat is wholly blurred right now. Wyoming is an outlier, as our admin is generally averse to the collective structure (my impression) and will not push the line at all. Other schools - not so much. If you read between the lines in the filings in the Oregon Title IX suit, there is a lot to suggest that the coordination between the boosters, collectives, universities, and athletic departments is so complete as to render them undiscernible. The reality is that the collectives are now part and parcel of the continuum of university athletic departments and, factually, Title IX will fall like a hammer to force equity across the collective ranks. The upshot of that? I don't know. But universities are failing the test you appropriately lay out and it isn't a close call in most cases.

[OrediggerPoke]

I wonder if there are rules in pro sports? Would it be possible for nfl fans to pay a collective not associated with the team and the collective paid players?

There are rules under the collective bargaining agreements. Which is why the establishment of employment status and labor unions might be one of the few answers for some schools absent an anti-trust exemption.

[ragtimejoe1]

I wonder if there are rules in pro sports? Would it be possible for nfl fans to pay a collective not associated with the team and the collective paid players?

There are rules under the collective bargaining agreements. Which is why the establishment of employment status and labor unions might be one of the few answers for some schools absent an anti-trust exemption.

What language do they use to prevent "collective-like" endorsements? How do they draw the line between local advertising money vs collective pay to play?

[doreno5]

I view NIL as opening up a very real possibility of players who are playing in a school's uniform but actually employed by a different entity or person. My prediction is things will get a lot messier for several years before anyone really figures out what needs to be done.

[ZapPoke]

Kid transfers from Alabama to Iowa. Collects $100,000 NIL money. Transfers back to Alabama before spring ball starts.

https://saturdayblitz.com/posts/kadyn-p ... hsez6najyw

[OrediggerPoke]

Kid transfers from Alabama to Iowa. Collects $100,000 NIL money. Transfers back to Alabama before spring ball starts.

https://saturdayblitz.com/posts/kadyn-p ... hsez6najyw

This is great! Stuff like this will help put an end to the madness. To the Iowa fans who donated to collective…buyer beware.

[LanderPoke]

Kid transfers from Alabama to Iowa. Collects $100,000 NIL money. Transfers back to Alabama before spring ball starts.

https://saturdayblitz.com/posts/kadyn-p ... hsez6najyw

This is great! Stuff like this will help put an end to the madness. To the Iowa fans who donated to collective…buyer beware.

Caveat emptor

[WYO_Fan_inPA]

I also feel there are too many changes coming too fast with NIL. For instance, NIL is very new. But now schools like Dartmouth are making players "employees". Why push the unionization/employee issue so quickly? As it was said above, schools could very likely drop sports to not deal with this. It dooms the olympic sports like track and field, swimming, etc. because there is no true professional route...

Just to be clear on Dartmouth, they are fighting the unionization effort. The University came out with a statement strongly disagreeing with the idea that their athletes are employees.

Yes, and the effort won. The players unionized. Though only private school employees can unionize. I am not sure what public universities can do.