Sheep are PAC12 Targets

[OrediggerPoke]

Nope, projected incoming class is well behind where it was last year. Things could change but expectations are for a decrease.

Source?

It’s now official and finally being reported. Despite the positive spin (there is none), Wyoming has its lowest enrollment since 1987.


https://www.wyomingnews.com/news/local_ ... 98251.html

[ragtimejoe1]

Source?

It’s now official and finally being reported. Despite the positive spin (there is none), Wyoming has its lowest enrollment since 1987.


https://www.wyomingnews.com/news/local_ ... 98251.html

What are the speculated reasons causing declining enrollment?

[LawPoke]

It’s now official and finally being reported. Despite the positive spin (there is none), Wyoming has its lowest enrollment since 1987.


https://www.wyomingnews.com/news/local_ ... 98251.html

What are the speculated reasons causing declining enrollment?

My personal view is that there is nothing driving students to want to go to UW. We are the bargain basement option in the region - which we have actively touted as a recruiting tool - and we have the programs and professors to match that craptastic sell job. I've been attacked on here before, but I stand by my view that there are VERY FEW excellent professors and majors/graduate programs at UW at present. We are a slight tick below mediocre, which is the worst possible place to be. Having toured campuses and heard pitches with my oldest son, I can tell you that there is a gaping chasm between UW and the other schools he has visited - some of which UW suggests they compete with (they don't). We have a nice campus. Otherwise, we are a beige school to anyone looking for vibrancy. Unless things change, UW will continue to be a fed school from Wyoming and regional high schools and community colleges - and occasionally attract the kid that wants to ski, hike, and climb that can't get into CU.

If you take off your brown and gold glasses and look around, you'll see that UW is a beige place stuck in neutral or slow reverse.

[307bball]

What are the speculated reasons causing declining enrollment?

My personal view is that there is nothing driving students to want to go to UW. We are the bargain basement option in the region - which we have actively touted as a recruiting tool - and we have the programs and professors to match that craptastic sell job. I've been attacked on here before, but I stand by my view that there are VERY FEW excellent professors and majors/graduate programs at UW at present. We are a slight tick below mediocre, which is the worst possible place to be. Having toured campuses and heard pitches with my oldest son, I can tell you that there is a gaping chasm between UW and the other schools he has visited - some of which UW suggests they compete with (they don't). We have a nice campus. Otherwise, we are a beige school to anyone looking for vibrancy. Unless things change, UW will continue to be a fed school from Wyoming and regional high schools and community colleges - and occasionally attract the kid that wants to ski, hike, and climb that can't get into CU.

If you take off your brown and gold glasses and look around, you'll see that UW is a beige place stuck in neutral or slow reverse.

This is not incorrect and hurts my Wyo native heart to admit. I have family that are on the faculty at UW ... UW struggles with attracting and retaining top talent. Something about the upper leadership seems stuck. I disagree that there are very few excellent professors at UW....There is an oversupply of good educators all over academia so that means that the professors at "lessor" schools are actually very high quality.

[LanderPoke]

My personal view is that there is nothing driving students to want to go to UW. We are the bargain basement option in the region - which we have actively touted as a recruiting tool - and we have the programs and professors to match that craptastic sell job. I've been attacked on here before, but I stand by my view that there are VERY FEW excellent professors and majors/graduate programs at UW at present. We are a slight tick below mediocre, which is the worst possible place to be. Having toured campuses and heard pitches with my oldest son, I can tell you that there is a gaping chasm between UW and the other schools he has visited - some of which UW suggests they compete with (they don't). We have a nice campus. Otherwise, we are a beige school to anyone looking for vibrancy. Unless things change, UW will continue to be a fed school from Wyoming and regional high schools and community colleges - and occasionally attract the kid that wants to ski, hike, and climb that can't get into CU.

If you take off your brown and gold glasses and look around, you'll see that UW is a beige place stuck in neutral or slow reverse.

This is not incorrect and hurts my Wyo native heart to admit. I have family that are on the faculty at UW ... UW struggles with attracting and retaining top talent. Something about the upper leadership seems stuck. I disagree that there are very few excellent professors at UW....There is an oversupply of good educators all over academia so that means that the professors at "lessor" schools are actually very high quality.

Some of the numbers problem is a national trend. Not as many kids and not as many kids going to college, plus Covid took a toll on numbers.

Regarding quality staff, I would have to look it up, but I'm not sure that UW offers competitive pay for professors. We will build all sorts of new buildings, but won't pay professors well. Dumb.

Also, regarding leadership, isn't there a law that says those on the BOT must reside in Wyoming? I remember voting on that a while ago. That's dumb. There are many qualified people that do not reside in Wyoming that would have great vision for the University.

And finally, I will add $$ is an issue. Initially, it is more expensive for a student from the western portion of the state to attend UW than to go to utah state (not to mention byu and byu-i) because of the requirement to live in the dorms and when you factor in distance from home it drives some students to the dark side. Living in the dorms is hideously expensive.

To reverse the trend I'd get better leadership on the BOT and start paying professors and attract top talent that way.

[sandiegopoke]

Regarding quality staff, I would have to look it up, but I'm not sure that UW offers competitive pay for professors. We will build all sorts of new buildings, but won't pay professors well. Dumb.

....

To reverse the trend I'd get better leadership on the BOT and start paying professors and attract top talent that way.

<rant>
This is also a national trend. As public education is being starved by well-intentioned legislatures, they are simply cheating those that cannot afford private education. Call me old fashioned, okay, call me conservative, but I believe it is a primary requirement of my government to educate all without subsidizing those that are better off with vouchers. Quit the cultural war against our public teachers and college educators.

My ultra-conservative hippy father-in-law wanted me to send his grandson to a private school. The local school district is very highly rated and kids from his high school are admitted to all the highest rated public and private universities/colleges. My tax dollars are well spent on education where I live.

Yes, my mother is a teacher.
</rant>

[OrediggerPoke]

Our regional contemporaries are not seeing anywhere near the declines we are seeing at Wyoming. This is the result of many failures of our University and State in many respects.

The way we begin to address this at this point:
1) We move full throttle on our new dorm and dining facilities. It’s embarrassing when high school kids come to campus and we highlight these subpar facilities.
2) We completely overhaul our antiquated and ineffective marketing strategies and team.
3) We increase funding and highlight our successful and important programs (School of Energy Resources, Engineering, Nursing/certain health sciences, education and business). We require clear strategies for these programs to grow and increase in visibility. This includes faculty acquisition and retention.


And so many more needs. This is just a bare minimum start. We are in real trouble.

[LawPoke]

Our regional contemporaries are not seeing anywhere near the declines we are seeing at Wyoming. This is the result of many failures of our University and State in many respects.

The way we begin to address this at this point:
1) We move full throttle on our new dorm and dining facilities. It’s embarrassing when high school kids come to campus and we highlight these subpar facilities.
2) We completely overhaul our antiquated and ineffective marketing strategies and team.
3) We increase funding and highlight our successful and important programs (School of Energy Resources, Engineering, Nursing/certain health sciences, education and business). We require clear strategies for these programs to grow and increase in visibility. This includes faculty acquisition and retention.


And so many more needs. This is just a bare minimum start. We are in real trouble.

This is absolutely correct. In fact, Montana State saw record enrollment this past year.

And all of this comes as some Legislators press to cut property taxes in half (hobbling schools, fire departments, ambulance service, etc.), which would lead to more general fund dollars being redirected to backfill those losses...with a lot of that money coming from places like UW, UW athletics match, etc. Meanwhile, UW has no idea how to live without WY funds.

It is high time for UW to become more entrepreneurial. If I was President, I'd take the block grant and say that it is only available to programs, professors, etc. that can match the funds requested from the grant with non-state sources of funds starting in 2025. The world is awash in cash looking for a home - and a lot of that cash will find its way to those that are innovating and worthy of investment. Those with ideas still win and get paid...which, looking at UW today, tells you all you need to know. I'd also do a challenge program with several million bucks that will be equally split in bonuses to the college faculty, admin and staff that becomes self-sustaining first. Those majors/programs that aren't able to sustain at least 50% of their operations by 2033 would be cut entirely. They will be forced to work together. As it stands now, the entire place resembles a pail for crabs that pulls down the escapee just because they, themselves, can't escape.

[ragtimejoe1]

Regarding quality staff, I would have to look it up, but I'm not sure that UW offers competitive pay for professors. We will build all sorts of new buildings, but won't pay professors well. Dumb.

....

To reverse the trend I'd get better leadership on the BOT and start paying professors and attract top talent that way.

<rant>
This is also a national trend. As public education is being starved by well-intentioned legislatures, they are simply cheating those that cannot afford private education. Call me old fashioned, okay, call me conservative, but I believe it is a primary requirement of my government to educate all without subsidizing those that are better off with vouchers. Quit the cultural war against our public teachers and college educators.

My ultra-conservative hippy father-in-law wanted me to send his grandson to a private school. The local school district is very highly rated and kids from his high school are admitted to all the highest rated public and private universities/colleges. My tax dollars are well spent on education where I live.

Yes, my mother is a teacher.
</rant>

Most studies say vouchers help the least fortunate the most. If public schools are the best option, they would retain many students and subsequent funding.

Public schools in some areas are a disaster and vouchers are drastically needed.

[LawPoke]

<rant>
This is also a national trend. As public education is being starved by well-intentioned legislatures, they are simply cheating those that cannot afford private education. Call me old fashioned, okay, call me conservative, but I believe it is a primary requirement of my government to educate all without subsidizing those that are better off with vouchers. Quit the cultural war against our public teachers and college educators.

My ultra-conservative hippy father-in-law wanted me to send his grandson to a private school. The local school district is very highly rated and kids from his high school are admitted to all the highest rated public and private universities/colleges. My tax dollars are well spent on education where I live.

Yes, my mother is a teacher.
</rant>

Most studies say vouchers help the least fortunate the most. If public schools are the best option, they would retain many students and subsequent funding.

Public schools in some areas are a disaster and vouchers are drastically needed.

Vouchers can’t really work in states like WYoming. Communities are too small and capital costs of building schools or renovating old buildings are too expensive. Maybe with Charter schools, but if they are religious, they can’t receive public funds per the constitution.

And my guess is that vouchers won’t solve the problems in the schools that are a disaster. If you think the blue bloods will allow poor kids from the other side of the track into there schools, I’d suggest you rethink.

[sandiegopoke]

Most studies say vouchers help the least fortunate the most. If public schools are the best option, they would retain many students and subsequent funding.

Public schools in some areas are a disaster and vouchers are drastically needed.

Vouchers can’t really work in states like WYoming. Communities are too small and capital costs of building schools or renovating old buildings are too expensive. Maybe with Charter schools, but if they are religious, they can’t receive public funds per the constitution.

And my guess is that vouchers won’t solve the problems in the schools that are a disaster. If you think the blue bloods will allow poor kids from the other side of the track into there schools, I’d suggest you rethink.

And I'd add those "studies" are questionable. How about we just enforce the policies and ensure the public schools *can* perform. There are definite problems, but adding more administrators and tests has not solved the problems and I think you're pretty blind to reality if you think vouchers are a solution to poor performing schools. It is not and should not be a "marketplace." It is a fundamental responsibility of government.

[OrediggerPoke]

I’m not sure the relevancy of vouchers to University of Wyoming enrollment but I suppose a related point is that students are coming in less and less prepared for college. The amount of college students in algebra and trigonometry because they didn’t learn these basic math concepts in high school is staggering.

[ragtimejoe1]

Vouchers can’t really work in states like WYoming. Communities are too small and capital costs of building schools or renovating old buildings are too expensive. Maybe with Charter schools, but if they are religious, they can’t receive public funds per the constitution.

And my guess is that vouchers won’t solve the problems in the schools that are a disaster. If you think the blue bloods will allow poor kids from the other side of the track into there schools, I’d suggest you rethink.

And I'd add those "studies" are questionable. How about we just enforce the policies and ensure the public schools *can* perform. There are definite problems, but adding more administrators and tests has not solved the problems and I think you're pretty blind to reality if you think vouchers are a solution to poor performing schools. It is not and should not be a "marketplace." It is a fundamental responsibility of government.

It'll get off track so no more comment from me on vouchers. I strongly disagree with your assertions other than I'm sure private schools would have a hard time in lowly populated states thus the voucher system would have less of an impact on WYO. The rest? Probably more suited for the other board.

For UWYO, this is very concerning. I don't know enough about the overall situation to really comment.

How much of the athletic budget comes from student fees?

[LawPoke]

And I'd add those "studies" are questionable. How about we just enforce the policies and ensure the public schools *can* perform. There are definite problems, but adding more administrators and tests has not solved the problems and I think you're pretty blind to reality if you think vouchers are a solution to poor performing schools. It is not and should not be a "marketplace." It is a fundamental responsibility of government.

How much of the athletic budget comes from student fees?

A 2022 audit says about $2 million out of $50 million in total revenue.

[ragtimejoe1]

How much of the athletic budget comes from student fees?

A 2022 audit says about $2 million out of $50 million in total revenue.

Interesting. Small percentage of the overall budget but it would also be about 50% of our TV contract.

[phxpoke]

Good news. My daughter is a freshman at UW. We toured all three campuses in Arizona and the University of Wyoming. She chose to attend my alma mater. I believe one thing that will help enrollment will be the new dorms. We definitely had the worst dorm situation of the four schools we toured. Update at mid first semester. She loves it and Laramie. She loves her teachers and she has met some great friends.

[Asmodeanreborn]

Whoever mentioned actual pay/benefits for professors may be on to something. I don't think a single one of my friends who started teaching at UW ended up staying. There's definitely a national trend of not paying professors very well or actually giving them tenure, but UW seems to be even worse than many others. I'm not sure what the split of payroll between actual "teachers" and "administrators" is, but I'm willing to bet that the split is skewing more and more toward the latter.

[laxwyo]

Whoever mentioned actual pay/benefits for professors may be on to something. I don't think a single one of my friends who started teaching at UW ended up staying. There's definitely a national trend of not paying professors very well or actually giving them tenure, but UW seems to be even worse than many others. I'm not sure what the split of payroll between actual "teachers" and "administrators" is, but I'm willing to bet that the split is skewing more and more toward the latter.

I think college is a dying form of education. With the internet, there is literally no reason you can't learn everything you need out there. Other than the paper a degree is on, it's fairly worthless. Kind of makes it hard to have a football team without college though

[laxwyo]

Sheep lose in heartbreaker. UNLV might have my favorite kicker.

5'9" and 220, dirt stache and his hair is even more wild now. Good for him tonight 6-6 on fgs included 2 in the last 2 minutes

https://unlvrebels.com/sports/football/ ... zano/15624

[WYO1016]

Whoever mentioned actual pay/benefits for professors may be on to something. I don't think a single one of my friends who started teaching at UW ended up staying. There's definitely a national trend of not paying professors very well or actually giving them tenure, but UW seems to be even worse than many others. I'm not sure what the split of payroll between actual "teachers" and "administrators" is, but I'm willing to bet that the split is skewing more and more toward the latter.

I think college is a dying form of education. With the internet, there is literally no reason you can't learn everything you need out there. Other than the paper a degree is on, it's fairly worthless. Kind of makes it hard to have a football team without college though

Well that's a hot take. There are some degrees that don't do much for you (including the music degree I picked up at UW), but there are plenty of fields you literally cannot get into without a degree. Doctors, attorneys, engineers, accountants, and teachers come to mind off the top of my head. I do agree that there are plenty of ways to make a living without a degree, but those jobs don't exist without the people that have degrees to run the companies.