When the college football season starts

My take is pretty simple. If you have data, like the issue of disproportionate sentencing based on race, I'm all in with you. Heck yeah, get that changed. If you want more funding for police to establish an independent review board to evaluate complaints, I'm in. If you want a tracking system to monitor disproportionate number of stops that are not based on a clear violation, I'm in. If you want to make the system easier to track and eventually weed out bad cops while not inhibiting or demoralizing good cops, I'm all in. If it's a problem, let's fix it.

If you want me to buy into white privilege, reparations, be apologetic, blame success and failure on the color of skin, accept riots, accept disruptions to major highways, businesses, etc. then I'm out.

CowboyNV said:

A lot of this is driven by fear, which is what I have such a difficult time understanding. I've never been afraid of cops. Every single one I've interacted with here in Longmont has been awesome... but that's not everybody's experience, and that's maybe why I should just shut the hell up and listen. Maybe me even hoping for "reform" is presumptuous and unhelpful.

Click to expand...

I'll give you my perspective on this issue for what it's worth. My son in law is a black man. A large, 6'6" 340 lb tattooed black man, who is a respectable member of his community. A hard working kid, who takes really good care of my daughter. He is the adopted son of a white couple - his dad has his PhD in statistics and probability and his mom has her PhD in education. He has his degree in engineering.

I've been with him in a car when he was pulled over for being black on three different occasions. Each time we were pulled from the car at gun point, handcuffed, the car was searched, and we were finally allowed to leave with a "warning" on the phantom traffic offenses. Unless and until one has experienced this, then one really has no idea what people of color are protesting.

It's not good to sit in white neighborhoods and pretend to know what these folks go through on a daily basis. I was deemed guilty through association and treated like a f##k[#] criminal simply because my son in law was black. You try having some paranoid fat white [#]f##k with a badge and a license to kill waving a loaded gun in your face while he is freaking out over....nothing but some guys skin pigment and his art work. It is more than a little unsettling.

Again, peaceful protest is a good thing. I don't condone the violence or the riots, but I do believe these folks have a reason to be pissed, and every right to peaceful assembly. This country is in a world of Sh#t and there's plenty of blame to go around on both sides of the political spectrum. Unfortunately, we don't have leaders on either side who will try to bring people together for the common good. It's all about the letter on your jersey...you're either an "R" or a "D" and there's no room anymore in the middle. It's all "pick a team" and then "[#]f##k you very much." Last time I checked, we were all Americans, everyone from the far right wing white KKK supporters, to those evil "libturds," and everybody in between. It's high time we all started acting like we're in this together.

That's my rant. I speak from my personal experiences. I'm lucky, because I don't have to get up every day and wonder if I'm going to get pulled over on some bull Sh#t deal and have Barney Fife blast me in to oblivion. My son in law faces that Sh#t every time he leaves his home. As a matter of fact, he's been hassled in his own front yard in Castle Rock by cops wondering if he belonged at that home. He's been forced to show ID just so the cops understand that he's a legitimate resident of that lily white neighborhood. Think about that for a minute. Have any of you ever been asked to show ID to prove we belong in our own houses? No, I didn't think so. We all need to do ourselves a favor, and not be offended by people protesting because we think we know what it's like in the hood. Unless you are a person of color, or related to one, you have no idea.

Click to expand...

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but do you think the cops act as they do towards your son in law (who sounds great, seriously) because a huge portion of the nation's murders, iirc over 50%, and a hugely disproportionate % of other violent crime is committed by black males? Black males comprise ~7% of the nation's population. I'm not necessarily condoning the police officers' actions towards you son in law, but to a degree I can understand where they are coming from. Is that being racist or prejudice? I honestly don't know

LanderPoke said:

CowboyNV said:

A lot of this is driven by fear, which is what I have such a difficult time understanding. I've never been afraid of cops. Every single one I've interacted with here in Longmont has been awesome... but that's not everybody's experience, and that's maybe why I should just shut the hell up and listen. Maybe me even hoping for "reform" is presumptuous and unhelpful.

Click to expand...

I'll give you my perspective on this issue for what it's worth. My son in law is a black man. A large, 6'6" 340 lb tattooed black man, who is a respectable member of his community. A hard working kid, who takes really good care of my daughter. He is the adopted son of a white couple - his dad has his PhD in statistics and probability and his mom has her PhD in education. He has his degree in engineering.

I've been with him in a car when he was pulled over for being black on three different occasions. Each time we were pulled from the car at gun point, handcuffed, the car was searched, and we were finally allowed to leave with a "warning" on the phantom traffic offenses. Unless and until one has experienced this, then one really has no idea what people of color are protesting.

It's not good to sit in white neighborhoods and pretend to know what these folks go through on a daily basis. I was deemed guilty through association and treated like a f##k[#] criminal simply because my son in law was black. You try having some paranoid fat white [#]f##k with a badge and a license to kill waving a loaded gun in your face while he is freaking out over....nothing but some guys skin pigment and his art work. It is more than a little unsettling.

Again, peaceful protest is a good thing. I don't condone the violence or the riots, but I do believe these folks have a reason to be pissed, and every right to peaceful assembly. This country is in a world of Sh#t and there's plenty of blame to go around on both sides of the political spectrum. Unfortunately, we don't have leaders on either side who will try to bring people together for the common good. It's all about the letter on your jersey...you're either an "R" or a "D" and there's no room anymore in the middle. It's all "pick a team" and then "[#]f##k you very much." Last time I checked, we were all Americans, everyone from the far right wing white KKK supporters, to those evil "libturds," and everybody in between. It's high time we all started acting like we're in this together.

That's my rant. I speak from my personal experiences. I'm lucky, because I don't have to get up every day and wonder if I'm going to get pulled over on some bull Sh#t deal and have Barney Fife blast me in to oblivion. My son in law faces that Sh#t every time he leaves his home. As a matter of fact, he's been hassled in his own front yard in Castle Rock by cops wondering if he belonged at that home. He's been forced to show ID just so the cops understand that he's a legitimate resident of that lily white neighborhood. Think about that for a minute. Have any of you ever been asked to show ID to prove we belong in our own houses? No, I didn't think so. We all need to do ourselves a favor, and not be offended by people protesting because we think we know what it's like in the hood. Unless you are a person of color, or related to one, you have no idea.

Click to expand...

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but do you think the cops act as they do towards your son in law (who sounds great, seriously) because a huge portion of the nation's murders, iirc over 50%, and a hugely disproportionate % of other violent crime is committed by black males? Black males comprise ~7% of the nation's population. I'm not necessarily condoning the police officers' actions towards you son in law, but to a degree I can understand where they are coming from. Is that being racist or prejudice? I honestly don't know

Click to expand...

Hey, your not being a jerk and it's a great question. I can tell you that when they walk up to the car, and he rolls down the window, their stress levels go through the roof. This is before he says anything. It's all about his appearance. He's black, he's large, he's got a lot of ink, and they instantly put him in a box that he must be a bad guy because of the way he looks. And it sucks because he's a good kid. I know I've been guilty of prejudging people based on how they look. I try to be better now, but I understand the cops' fears. I wish there was an easy answer to it, but I don't have it. I just know it sucks to be treated like a criminal when that treatment is based solely on looks. I don't think it's either racist or prejudice. I think it's simply based on fear.

CowboyNV said:

A lot of this is driven by fear, which is what I have such a difficult time understanding. I've never been afraid of cops. Every single one I've interacted with here in Longmont has been awesome... but that's not everybody's experience, and that's maybe why I should just shut the hell up and listen. Maybe me even hoping for "reform" is presumptuous and unhelpful.

Click to expand...

I'll give you my perspective on this issue for what it's worth. My son in law is a black man. A large, 6'6" 340 lb tattooed black man, who is a respectable member of his community. A hard working kid, who takes really good care of my daughter. He is the adopted son of a white couple - his dad has his PhD in statistics and probability and his mom has her PhD in education. He has his degree in engineering.

I've been with him in a car when he was pulled over for being black on three different occasions. Each time we were pulled from the car at gun point, handcuffed, the car was searched, and we were finally allowed to leave with a "warning" on the phantom traffic offenses. Unless and until one has experienced this, then one really has no idea what people of color are protesting.

It's not good to sit in white neighborhoods and pretend to know what these folks go through on a daily basis. I was deemed guilty through association and treated like a f##k[#] criminal simply because my son in law was black. You try having some paranoid fat white [#]f##k with a badge and a license to kill waving a loaded gun in your face while he is freaking out over....nothing but some guys skin pigment and his art work. It is more than a little unsettling.

Again, peaceful protest is a good thing. I don't condone the violence or the riots, but I do believe these folks have a reason to be pissed, and every right to peaceful assembly. This country is in a world of Sh#t and there's plenty of blame to go around on both sides of the political spectrum. Unfortunately, we don't have leaders on either side who will try to bring people together for the common good. It's all about the letter on your jersey...you're either an "R" or a "D" and there's no room anymore in the middle. It's all "pick a team" and then "[#]f##k you very much." Last time I checked, we were all Americans, everyone from the far right wing white KKK supporters, to those evil "libturds," and everybody in between. It's high time we all started acting like we're in this together.

That's my rant. I speak from my personal experiences. I'm lucky, because I don't have to get up every day and wonder if I'm going to get pulled over on some bull Sh#t deal and have Barney Fife blast me in to oblivion. My son in law faces that Sh#t every time he leaves his home. As a matter of fact, he's been hassled in his own front yard in Castle Rock by cops wondering if he belonged at that home. He's been forced to show ID just so the cops understand that he's a legitimate resident of that lily white neighborhood. Think about that for a minute. Have any of you ever been asked to show ID to prove we belong in our own houses? No, I didn't think so. We all need to do ourselves a favor, and not be offended by people protesting because we think we know what it's like in the hood. Unless you are a person of color, or related to one, you have no idea.

Click to expand...

I get what you are saying, and I don't think any American should go through what you describe your son-in-law going through. Here is the thing though, what exactly is BLM calling for that is actually going to correct the problem? Help me understand how their agenda is actually going to improve race relations. From what I have seen, I think it has already made things worse and will continue to make things worse. I think there is a lot of potential wide spread support for police reform. I think though that actual meaningful police reform is not what is actually being sought, I see people's righteous concerns, worries, grievances being hijacked and used for another purpose.

Think back to when this first started right after George Flloyd's death. I saw a lot of people offer support for law enforcement reform. That didn't end because of protests, it ended when you had documented cases of organized rioting. Like the Kansas City Police releasing photos of pallets of concrete masonry blocks sitting on the street. I'm not offended by people protesting, protest away. What I do not like seeing is the burning, looting, and destruction. I do not like seeing the butchering of history like with the 1619 project and all of its falsehoods and misrepresentations (like the American Revolution was about slavery). I do not like seeing things like hard work, capitalism, meritocracy, the nuclear family being called racist and white privileged. I really do not like seeing minority kids being used in the creation of and being exposed to propaganda about how they cannot succeed in this nation and being given a bunch of excuses that will rob them of the motivation and drive needed for them to succeed and turn them into puppets of others. Have you seen the NEA videos that were being shown in Jefferson County? Those are disgusting propaganda pieces. I look at the policies and ideas being put forward and I see not the racial problems being addressed, but the targeting of other economic and societal institutions fundamental to our free market. That tells me this isn't really about race but rather about fundamentally transforming us from a free market free nation into a command and control socialist nation. I don't like seeing them being used as the useful idiots for a purpose that in the end is not about race.

There is educational (holding failed and failing schools accountable, encouraging family involvement, introducing competition to failing school districts) and law enforcement (less militarization, better integration and involvement of police with the communities they police, better methods to find and take care of bad cops while maintaining due process to protect against false accusations) reforms that could be made, that I think most Americans would support. Those are not what I am seeing being proposed. Personally, I see the way forward as a more focused effort on judging by content of character and actions then by color of skin. To focus less on skin color rather than falling into movements were everything is seemingly defined by color of skin. I really don't think trying to wreck the building blocks of a free market free nation (due process, hard work, meritocracy, nuclear families, respect of private property) is going to help anyone.

There have been some really good posts today. Glad to see some well reasoned thoughts.

Has anyone noticed that our fourth largest city (Houston) hasn’t experienced the riots that other cities have? Perhaps it is because Houston is so diverse. Odds are, if you get pulled over here the cop will be Black or Hispanic. And yes, I have been asked for ID walking in my neighborhood at night. We have solid law enforcement here that is pretty well respected.

Lebron claims blacks are being hunted down by law enforcement. The facts just don’t support that. In all the recent cases the person was engaged in an illegal act and resisted arrest sometimes violently. What are the cops supposed to do? Just oh well he won’t cooperate so just let him go.

What makes me nervous is what is going to happen if an honest jury acquits officer Chauvin in Minneapolis. George Floyd died as the result of a drug overdose on top of a heart weakened by Covid19. The position of the officer on his neck is what they are trained to do in that situation.

This whole BLM thing blew up after the Michael Brown case wherein three separate investigations showed the officer was right. All these incidents get blown out of proportion by people jumping to conclusions without having all the facts. It’s all about emotions without the facts.

ragtimejoe1 said:

My take is pretty simple. If you have data, like the issue of disproportionate sentencing based on race, I'm all in with you. Heck yeah, get that changed. If you want more funding for police to establish an independent review board to evaluate complaints, I'm in. If you want a tracking system to monitor disproportionate number of stops that are not based on a clear violation, I'm in. If you want to make the system easier to track and eventually weed out bad cops while not inhibiting or demoralizing good cops, I'm all in. If it's a problem, let's fix it.

If you want me to buy into white privilege, reparations, be apologetic, blame success and failure on the color of skin, accept riots, accept disruptions to major highways, businesses, etc. then I'm out.

Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't being white and not being subjected to what you described in the top paragraph pretty much the definition of white privilege? It does make it ever so slightly more easy to be successful as a white person, but so does being born in a good neighborhood with good schools, being ridiculously good looking, having parents who help you grow and be successful without completely shielding you from controversy, and so on... none of those were things you would've had control over. I think you'd be an idiot not to take the opportunities given to you as many people would do anything to have those same opportunities, and couldn't you even argue it'd be disrespectful not to use them - as long as you're not an ass about it?

If you don't treat people of other ethnicity/skin color poorly, I don't see why any apologizing is necessary. I think most people want the same, including most of the people in BLM... the problem is that there are morons who thrive upon the chaos created and who have a lot to gain from riots and destruction. The last thing those people want is actual solutions and a way going forward for all of us.

That's one reason I don't mind the athletes doing what they do (aside from refusing to admit that China is a freaking horrible place and that their concentration camps are almost on a Nazi Germany level) - it's a peaceful yet hard to ignore way to call to action. It doesn't destroy any small business owner's livelihood, yet it does force people to talk about it.

I don't know... this whole situation is crazy, but I do think there's a way out of it. Hell, I'd argue the police here in Longmont already works the way a lot of people want police to work: they send experts to deal with people with mental health issues rather than a police officer who's likely to feel threatened.They send social workers to deal with addicts and homeless people (obviously unless they're breaking into a house), and so on. If I understand correctly, they also shoot to disable rather than to kill (incidentally, this is how my guard training was in the military as well). Turns out that a dude with a knife who gets his legs taken out can't do much damage.

Anyway, I'm drunk and rambling. I like the civil tone of this discussion. We all have different points of view, but at least we're all Cowboy fans.

https://www.porttownsendfreepress.com/2020/08/17/officer-chauvin-i-am-so-sorry-for-believing-that-you-murdered-george-floyd/

[media]https://twitter.com/kdmorreira/status/1299825467768352772?s=21[/media]BYU is playing navy on the 7th. I’m so fucking pissed at our pussy governor, pussy U president and pussy conference

laxwyo said:

[media]https://twitter.com/kdmorreira/status/1299825467768352772?s=21[/media]BYU is playing navy on the 7th. I’m so f##k[#] pissed at our pussy governor, pussy U president and pussy conference

Click to expand...

Don't spread that bullshit... clearly a conspiracy theorist. Regardless if you agree or disagree with what's being done, don't spread disinformation.

WestWYOPoke said:

laxwyo said:

[media]https://twitter.com/kdmorreira/status/1299825467768352772?s=21[/media]BYU is playing navy on the 7th. I’m so f##k[#] pissed at our pussy governor, pussy U president and pussy conference

Click to expand...

Don't spread that [#]sh#t... clearly a conspiracy theorist. Regardless if you agree or disagree with what's being done, don't spread disinformation.

Click to expand...

Does the q stand for qanon?

Anyway, it’s true. There is basically zero risk of getting seriously ill much less dying if you are under about 75 and relatively healthy. I don’t see anything wrong with letting people know. Her info comes straight from the CDC.

Bottom lines is BYU is playing and we’re not. They winning we’re losing

As a heads up, 42% of adult Americans count as obese, which counts as a pre-existing condition in many places. So is diabetes (regardless of type), which apparently makes you WAY more likely to die if you catch COVID (40% of deaths have had Diabetes).

Why do I mention this? Because Diabetes isn't something you typically die of, especially type 2.

Asmodeanreborn said:

As a heads up, 42% of adult Americans count as obese, which counts as a pre-existing condition in many places. So is diabetes (regardless of type), which apparently makes you WAY more likely to die if you catch COVID (40% of deaths have had Diabetes).

Why do I mention this? Because Diabetes isn't something you typically die of, especially type 2.

Click to expand...

Maybe they should get less fat

Research is showing that people with well managed diabetes have a survivability from covid19 slightly higher than the general population and a slightly lower infection rate. This is likely due to the healthy diet which is needed to manage blood glucose levels in diabetics, but also people who have well managed diabetes have much lower body mass index ratings, in other words less obesity. Obesity is likely the most common risk factor for covid19.

New CDC guidelines besides dropping the 14 day quarantine:

If you have symptoms of COVID-19 and want to get tested, call your healthcare provider first. Most people will have mild illness and can recover at home without medical care and may not need to be tested.

Click to expand...

Couple that with a .3-.6% death rate among positive cases and 94% of those have 2 + comorbidity. 98% of those are above 60.

Hmm, seems like quite a few of us have been banging that drum for some time. We will quietly hear more and more of reality.

WestWYOPoke said:

laxwyo said:

[media]https://twitter.com/kdmorreira/status/1299825467768352772?s=21[/media]BYU is playing navy on the 7th. I’m so f##k[#] pissed at our pussy governor, pussy U president and pussy conference

Click to expand...

Don't spread that [#]sh#t... clearly a conspiracy theorist. Regardless if you agree or disagree with what's being done, don't spread disinformation.

Click to expand...

What here is disinformation?

'PokeForLife said:

WestWYOPoke said:

laxwyo said:

[media]https://twitter.com/kdmorreira/status/1299825467768352772?s=21[/media]BYU is playing navy on the 7th. I’m so f##k[#] pissed at our pussy governor, pussy U president and pussy conference

Click to expand...

Don't spread that [#]sh#t... clearly a conspiracy theorist. Regardless if you agree or disagree with what's being done, don't spread disinformation.

Click to expand...

What here is disinformation?

Click to expand...

he must think because it didn’t come from a verified leftist source it can’t be true

WestWYOPoke said:

laxwyo said:

[media]https://twitter.com/kdmorreira/status/1299825467768352772?s=21[/media]BYU is playing navy on the 7th. I’m so f##k[#] pissed at our pussy governor, pussy U president and pussy conference

Click to expand...

Don't spread that bullshit... clearly a conspiracy theorist. Regardless if you agree or disagree with what's being done, don't spread disinformation.

Click to expand...

Read it yourself, wanker. It amazes me how many people claim conspiracy when they don’t want to believe the data. 20k cardiac arrests in the 160k lol. We told you this was a fucking clown disease hyped by the media and you liberal dorks think you’re so much smarter.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm

laxwyo said:

WestWYOPoke said:

laxwyo said:

[media]https://twitter.com/kdmorreira/status/1299825467768352772?s=21[/media]BYU is playing navy on the 7th. I’m so f##k[#] pissed at our pussy governor, pussy U president and pussy conference

Click to expand...

Don't spread that [#]sh#t... clearly a conspiracy theorist. Regardless if you agree or disagree with what's being done, don't spread disinformation.

Click to expand...

Read it yourself, wanker. It amazes me how many people claim conspiracy when they don’t want to believe the data. 20k cardiac arrests in the 160k lol. We told you this was a f##k[#] clown disease hyped by the media and you liberal dorks think you’re so much smarter.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm

Click to expand...

Not a liberal, but I (unlike you apparently) am capable of having a conversation like an adult without having to resort to demeaning or belittling others because they don't think exactly as I do.

My calling them a conspiracy theorist is because they are, it took about 10 seconds on their Twitter profile (yes they are qanon, enough said) to figure that out.

My anger was because this data is being skewed to make it look as if Covid only killed 9000 people. BS, it's killed 10s of thousands. Was it the true cause for every single one of the 170,000+ deaths so far? No. Did it only kill 9000-something? Of course not.

WestWYOPoke said:

laxwyo said:

WestWYOPoke said:

laxwyo said:

[media]https://twitter.com/kdmorreira/status/1299825467768352772?s=21[/media]BYU is playing navy on the 7th. I’m so f##k[#] pissed at our pussy governor, pussy U president and pussy conference

Click to expand...

Don't spread that [#]sh#t... clearly a conspiracy theorist. Regardless if you agree or disagree with what's being done, don't spread disinformation.

Click to expand...

Read it yourself, wanker. It amazes me how many people claim conspiracy when they don’t want to believe the data. 20k cardiac arrests in the 160k lol. We told you this was a f##k[#] clown disease hyped by the media and you liberal dorks think you’re so much smarter.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm

Click to expand...

Not a liberal, but I (unlike you apparently) am capable of having a conversation like an adult without having to resort to demeaning or belittling others because they don't think exactly as I do.

My calling them a conspiracy theorist is because they are, it took about 10 seconds on their Twitter profile (yes they are qanon, enough said) to figure that out.

My anger was because this data is being skewed to make it look as if Covid only killed 9000 people. BS, it's killed 10s of thousands. Was it the true cause for every single one of the 170,000+ deaths so far? No. Did it only kill 9000-something? Of course not.

Click to expand...

“I was wrong” come to terms with saying it.

There is so much data out there now on the vulnerable population. If not part of that population, COVID just isn't that risky.

For the life of me, I can't figure out why we aren't using demographics and data to drive the reopening process. Task primary care providers with screening their patients and letting them know their risk. If you are in a risky group, stay home! Your family also needs to be careful around you. Make accommodations for those at risk or those that must interact with the highly susceptible (example, let kids stay home if they live with susceptible grandparents or something).

Reopen more liberally with the lowly susceptible crowd. Eliminate liability so that isn't a concern. Even the CDC is now saying most people can recover after relatively mild symptoms.

I truly get that this virus is devastating for some. I know a family that got it and all were okay except the dad. He had significant lung damage but was in the highly susceptible crowd.

It is true that even if you don't have the demographics that make you susceptible to sever cases, you can be one of the small percentages that have a terrible case (maybe die). However, that risk is literally less than the risk associated with driving cars.

I just don't get it.