Vigen has to go

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jessejames02
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OrediggerPoke wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:15 pm
ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:28 pm
OrediggerPoke wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:00 pm
LanderPoke wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:48 pm
laxwyo wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:11 pm “Joe Tiller just isn’t getting it done”

-everyone in this thread 1996
No one wants Bohl gone. We want him to make a personnel change, like he has done a few times with great success.
Except the posters that have said if Bohl doesn’t make a change he can kick rocks??

But this where you’re wrong. Telling Bohl you must get rid of Vigen is the same thing as telling Bohl we aren’t going to let you coach the team as you see fit which would almost undoubtedly run him off. Bohl doesn’t need this job plain and simple. Hell if I were in his shoes, at his age and set for life but constantly being bombarded with the negativity, I’d say fine Wyoming have it your way to hire someone else for the job and best of luck to them.

But overall what it should come down to is if Bohl thinks a change is necessary only he should have that say. If he thinks no personnel change is necessary, then he absolutely should have that right too (outside of coaches committing crimes and other questionable personal behavior). And if Bohl’s way leads to the failure of the program, then it is on him. But my money would be on Bohl bringing this program to a place it hasn’t been in a very long time. So all this Bohl must fire Vigen is nonsense.
I see we’re back to this BS micromanagement argument. It’s nonsense. Bohl is an employee. He has to answer to someone. Burman ABSOLUTELY should tell him that things need to change on the O side of the ball. If that hurts Bohls feelings he probably should retire. Being a head coach means he has to answer when his team fails. There is no complaint when things go good and he’s getting fat bonuses and extensions and praise. Well the blade cuts both ways, when your teams offense is consistently in the bottom 1/4 of college football, you don’t get to hide from the well earned criticism.

And if he refuses to make a change with Vigen, there should be serious questions about his future here. He constantly preaches team over the individual. No names on the back of the jersey because the name on the front is most important. Unless it’s dealing with his pal Vigen... the hypocrisy is palpable...
There should be three stats and really only three stats to measure Bohl in terms of him keeping his job: (1) Football success in terms of wins and losses plain and simple; (2) Academic standing and retention of student athletes in the program; and (3) ethics of the program (i.e. not allowing strippers for recruiting visits, not covering for assistants the deed assaulting juveniles, etc...). Outside of these things and if Bohl should fail in these he absolutely should be held accountable.

But the boss that tells an employee how he is to do his job (the one he was hired to perform) is the crappy boss and the employee is unlikely to put up with that.

So cool if you are happy with Bohl not agreeing to be micro-managed and leaving...well just accept that it is more likely to mean the next Vic Koenning so folks will be handing out Wildcatter tickets for free in the 2/3 empty stadium. Score I guess for the folks that like that sort of thing.
I agree with a lot of that. No. 1 is wins and losses and six years in, he’s sub .500.
He’s had three years with winning records, and two years with winning in conference records.
Yeah he’s leaps and bounds beyond any other coach in the last 20+ years, but he’s far from perfect.
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ragtimejoe1
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First, I like Bohl and want him as WYO's coach but it would be interesting to see winning percentage against decent competition.

Based on the numbers I looked at, I don't think he's doing a lot better against teams with a pulse than his predecessors but benefits from a substantially weaker MWC.

If I get a chance, I'll try to evaluate that closely with numbers to back it up. Wins are nice, but when measuring against past performance, level of competition is important.

Make no mistake, this team would get smacked against Utah, TCU, and byu in conference in the old MWC and would be in line with the old UNM, AF, CSU, etc. teams.

Perspective is important. I really like Bohl, but it's not like he's moving mountains. The weak schedule makes it difficult to judge against predecessors.

Not being negative but it is what it is.
WYO1016 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
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OrediggerPoke wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:15 pm
ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:28 pm
OrediggerPoke wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:00 pm
LanderPoke wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:48 pm
laxwyo wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:11 pm “Joe Tiller just isn’t getting it done”

-everyone in this thread 1996
No one wants Bohl gone. We want him to make a personnel change, like he has done a few times with great success.
Except the posters that have said if Bohl doesn’t make a change he can kick rocks??

But this where you’re wrong. Telling Bohl you must get rid of Vigen is the same thing as telling Bohl we aren’t going to let you coach the team as you see fit which would almost undoubtedly run him off. Bohl doesn’t need this job plain and simple. Hell if I were in his shoes, at his age and set for life but constantly being bombarded with the negativity, I’d say fine Wyoming have it your way to hire someone else for the job and best of luck to them.

But overall what it should come down to is if Bohl thinks a change is necessary only he should have that say. If he thinks no personnel change is necessary, then he absolutely should have that right too (outside of coaches committing crimes and other questionable personal behavior). And if Bohl’s way leads to the failure of the program, then it is on him. But my money would be on Bohl bringing this program to a place it hasn’t been in a very long time. So all this Bohl must fire Vigen is nonsense.
I see we’re back to this BS micromanagement argument. It’s nonsense. Bohl is an employee. He has to answer to someone. Burman ABSOLUTELY should tell him that things need to change on the O side of the ball. If that hurts Bohls feelings he probably should retire. Being a head coach means he has to answer when his team fails. There is no complaint when things go good and he’s getting fat bonuses and extensions and praise. Well the blade cuts both ways, when your teams offense is consistently in the bottom 1/4 of college football, you don’t get to hide from the well earned criticism.

And if he refuses to make a change with Vigen, there should be serious questions about his future here. He constantly preaches team over the individual. No names on the back of the jersey because the name on the front is most important. Unless it’s dealing with his pal Vigen... the hypocrisy is palpable...
There should be three stats and really only three stats to measure Bohl in terms of him keeping his job: (1) Football success in terms of wins and losses plain and simple; (2) Academic standing and retention of student athletes in the program; and (3) ethics of the program (i.e. not allowing strippers for recruiting visits, not covering for assistants the deed assaulting juveniles, etc...). Outside of these things and if Bohl should fail in these he absolutely should be held accountable.

But the boss that tells an employee how he is to do his job (the one he was hired to perform) is the crappy boss and the employee is unlikely to put up with that.

So cool if you are happy with Bohl not agreeing to be micro-managed and leaving...well just accept that it is more likely to mean the next Vic Koenning so folks will be handing out Wildcatter tickets for free in the 2/3 empty stadium. Score I guess for the folks that like that sort of thing.
You must be joking. That's a boss's job to set expectations and goals for employees. And as a manager you are reviewed on not only your performance but your employees as well. And the "if we fire bohl we will only be able to hire someone like Koening" is the same tired fatalistic and manipulative BS I hear out of my 6 year old. It's a completely tired and untrue argument.
HR_Poke
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ragtimejoe1 wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:00 pm First, I like Bohl and want him as WYO's coach but it would be interesting to see winning percentage against decent competition.

Based on the numbers I looked at, I don't think he's doing a lot better against teams with a pulse than his predecessors but benefits from a substantially weaker MWC.

If I get a chance, I'll try to evaluate that closely with numbers to back it up. Wins are nice, but when measuring against past performance, level of competition is important.

Make no mistake, this team would get smacked against Utah, TCU, and byu in conference in the old MWC and would be in line with the old UNM, AF, CSU, etc. teams.

Perspective is important. I really like Bohl, but it's not like he's moving mountains. The weak schedule makes it difficult to judge against predecessors.

Not being negative but it is what it is.
Very good point. At year 6 he's putting up 6 or 7 wins against a much weaker conference. In reality how is this any different or better than joe Glenn at this point?
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f-word it, lets fire bohl and fold the program altogether
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jessejames02 wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:33 pm
WyoBrandX wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:32 pm
jessejames02 wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:34 am
WyoBrandX wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:14 am
Add in the injuries, add in a bunch of stuff, and the fact that we aren't losing by much, have our 4th winning season in a row...
You know something I don’t?
Probably. You probably know something I don't as well. Can you be more specific?
I didn't know last year counted as a winning season.
6-6 is .500 or 50%. It counts. It is what it is - but thats what it is.
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LanderPoke
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Bohl is winning more than his predecessors at a similar point. The trajectory is what matters. And you can only beat who you play, so it's not Bohl's fault he plays an easier conference schedule
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WyoBrandX wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:28 pm
jessejames02 wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:33 pm I didn't know last year counted as a winning season.
6-6 is .500 or 50%. It counts. It is what it is - but thats what it is.
Lol, what?

6-6, .500, 50% --- doesn't matter how it is written, it's not a winning season.

You have to win more than you lose (>50%) for it to be a winning season.
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LanderPoke wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:13 pm Bohl is winning more than his predecessors at a similar point. The trajectory is what matters. And you can only beat who you play, so it's not Bohl's fault he plays an easier conference schedule
Disagree. If predecessors can't beat ok teams and Bohl can't beat ok teams then progress can't be determined by schedule including fewer ok teams and more crappy teams. Let's see how it goes with Utah next year (assuming they don't lose too much).
WYO1016 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
Insults are the last resort of fools with a crumbling position.
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So to sum up the Vigen defenders... and those who defend Bohls inaction in regards to the offensive status quo.

We're better than in the last 20 yrs, even though Glenn and Christensen had similar records with harder schedules. Glenn playing in a tough conference with a similar record and Christensen having similar records with 3 yrs of brutal non conference with the likes of Texas and brutal conference play with Boise near their peak and Utah, TCU and BYU means nothing. Christensens 9 win team means nothing, even though that's the highest win total weve had since the mid 90s. Also moral victories with Bohl get a lot of credit even though a W is a W and a L is an L. Glenn and Christensen were bad and Bohl/Vigen is the best well ever get.

You can't have Bohl without Vigen, and we could never get a coach that's better than Bohl. Ever.

Vigen gets a pass because of injuries, QBs that can't pass, and bad WRs even though his style of play creates significant injuries every year at crucial positions and his style of play and recruiting is responsible for the QBs and recievers we get and the recievers that don't wanna to come play for us so they can be blockers.

Expecting conference championships or competing for them regularly is nonsense because were Wyo. Forget the promises that Bohl made and that we were singing a much different tune when we were begging the state for tens of millions of dollars for facilities while we were saying everyone else in the state should do more for less. While we're at it, we need to renovate the West end of the stadium even though were getting the same or arguably worse results due to SOS with all the new poop. That west end renovation will bring us to the promised land. And the stadium work we did and the HAPC need more time to pay off with this staff. Like another 2, 4, 6 years maybe.

In a year or two, well be amazing. Well never see the injuries we see every year on offense because of our style of play and the defense will never get worse even though they're playing about as good as we could possibly ever expect. They'll be like that every year. Because that side of the team is responsible for winning. Our putrid offense will also never run off good defensive players or coaches.

Criticism of Vigen means no Bohl, and you all are just gonna run him off, even though the vast majority want to keep Bohl and just have him fix the damn offense. You all will complain even if we win the conference, cause you just don't like low scoring games.

Our RBs need to run into a stacked box and somehow gain yds when there are more defenders than blockers. Anything less is lack of execution and totally the players fault. Vigen's game plans and play calling are the best we can get. In fact, he should be strongly considered as our next HC. Some of us are actually his buddies and it would be so cool to be friends with the head coach.

Anything else I'm missing?
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bullbugle307 wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:02 am Christensens 9 win team means nothing, even though that's the highest win total weve had since the mid 90s.
In the past 30 years, Wyoming has won more than 8 games twice. 1990 and 1996. I must've fell through a wormhole or something when DC did it.
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bullbugle307 wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:02 am So to sum up the Vigen defenders... and those who defend Bohls inaction in regards to the offensive status quo.

We're better than in the last 20 yrs, even though Glenn and Christensen had similar records with harder schedules. Glenn playing in a tough conference with a similar record and Christensen having similar records with 3 yrs of brutal non conference with the likes of Texas and brutal conference play with Boise near their peak and Utah, TCU and BYU means nothing. Christensens 9 win team means nothing, even though that's the highest win total weve had since the mid 90s. Also moral victories with Bohl get a lot of credit even though a W is a W and a L is an L. Glenn and Christensen were bad and Bohl/Vigen is the best well ever get.

You can't have Bohl without Vigen, and we could never get a coach that's better than Bohl. Ever.

Vigen gets a pass because of injuries, QBs that can't pass, and bad WRs even though his style of play creates significant injuries every year at crucial positions and his style of play and recruiting is responsible for the QBs and recievers we get and the recievers that don't wanna to come play for us so they can be blockers.

Expecting conference championships or competing for them regularly is nonsense because were Wyo. Forget the promises that Bohl made and that we were singing a much different tune when we were begging the state for tens of millions of dollars for facilities while we were saying everyone else in the state should do more for less. While we're at it, we need to renovate the West end of the stadium even though were getting the same or arguably worse results due to SOS with all the new poop. That west end renovation will bring us to the promised land. And the stadium work we did and the HAPC need more time to pay off with this staff. Like another 2, 4, 6 years maybe.

In a year or two, well be amazing. Well never see the injuries we see every year on offense because of our style of play and the defense will never get worse even though they're playing about as good as we could possibly ever expect. They'll be like that every year. Because that side of the team is responsible for winning. Our putrid offense will also never run off good defensive players or coaches.

Criticism of Vigen means no Bohl, and you all are just gonna run him off, even though the vast majority want to keep Bohl and just have him fix the damn offense. You all will complain even if we win the conference, cause you just don't like low scoring games.

Our RBs need to run into a stacked box and somehow gain yds when there are more defenders than blockers. Anything less is lack of execution and totally the players fault. Vigen's game plans and play calling are the best we can get. In fact, he should be strongly considered as our next HC. Some of us are actually his buddies and it would be so cool to be friends with the head coach.

Anything else I'm missing?
Straw man much?
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bullbugle307 wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:02 am So to sum up the Vigen defenders... and those who defend Bohls inaction in regards to the offensive status quo.

We're better than in the last 20 yrs, even though Glenn and Christensen had similar records with harder schedules. Glenn playing in a tough conference with a similar record and Christensen having similar records with 3 yrs of brutal non conference with the likes of Texas and brutal conference play with Boise near their peak and Utah, TCU and BYU means nothing. Christensens 9 win team means nothing, even though that's the highest win total weve had since the mid 90s. Also moral victories with Bohl get a lot of credit even though a W is a W and a L is an L. Glenn and Christensen were bad and Bohl/Vigen is the best well ever get.

You can't have Bohl without Vigen, and we could never get a coach that's better than Bohl. Ever.

Vigen gets a pass because of injuries, QBs that can't pass, and bad WRs even though his style of play creates significant injuries every year at crucial positions and his style of play and recruiting is responsible for the QBs and recievers we get and the recievers that don't wanna to come play for us so they can be blockers.

Expecting conference championships or competing for them regularly is nonsense because were Wyo. Forget the promises that Bohl made and that we were singing a much different tune when we were begging the state for tens of millions of dollars for facilities while we were saying everyone else in the state should do more for less. While we're at it, we need to renovate the West end of the stadium even though were getting the same or arguably worse results due to SOS with all the new poop. That west end renovation will bring us to the promised land. And the stadium work we did and the HAPC need more time to pay off with this staff. Like another 2, 4, 6 years maybe.

In a year or two, well be amazing. Well never see the injuries we see every year on offense because of our style of play and the defense will never get worse even though they're playing about as good as we could possibly ever expect. They'll be like that every year. Because that side of the team is responsible for winning. Our putrid offense will also never run off good defensive players or coaches.

Criticism of Vigen means no Bohl, and you all are just gonna run him off, even though the vast majority want to keep Bohl and just have him fix the damn offense. You all will complain even if we win the conference, cause you just don't like low scoring games.

Our RBs need to run into a stacked box and somehow gain yds when there are more defenders than blockers. Anything less is lack of execution and totally the players fault. Vigen's game plans and play calling are the best we can get. In fact, he should be strongly considered as our next HC. Some of us are actually his buddies and it would be so cool to be friends with the head coach.

Anything else I'm missing?
Spot-on assessment of the good enough" crowd's argument.
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BackHarlowRoad wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:14 am
bullbugle307 wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:02 am Christensens 9 win team means nothing, even though that's the highest win total weve had since the mid 90s.
In the past 30 years, Wyoming has won more than 8 games twice. 1990 and 1996. I must've fell through a wormhole or something when DC did it.
Yep! He must be referring to Christensen's 9 loss season. What a great and memorable season that was. Wish we could go back to those glory days...
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For those not on the Fire Vigen bandwagon, can you make an argument that he should stay or one that defends his performance without saying "it's Bohl's decision"?

For those using the injury excuse, our offense scored 16 points against 3-9 Sun Belt team Texas St (7 of which were after an INT gave them a short field) and 21 points against 5-7 FCS team Idaho (7 of which were on a 14 yard drive after a long punt return and 7 were on a 1 play 80 yard drive). Both of those games were before the Tulsa game where we truly did get a ton of injuries.
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SheepSlayer wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:58 am For those not on the Fire Vigen bandwagon, can you make an argument that he should stay or one that defends his performance without saying "it's Bohl's decision"?

For those using the injury excuse, our offense scored 16 points against 3-9 Sun Belt team Texas St (7 of which were after an INT gave them a short field) and 21 points against 5-7 FCS team Idaho (7 of which were on a 14 yard drive after a long punt return and 7 were on a 1 play 80 yard drive). Both of those games were before the Tulsa game where we truly did get a ton of injuries.
I'm not on or off the "fire Vigen" bandwagon. Look at my numerous posts that say I could care less if he stays or goes....but I'll try to answer your question. But, I warn you, nothing I have to say should be misconstrued as a defense for poor production.

I'm very pro-the current culture and direction of the program. I have no inside information but it seems like he's well liked, and a part of, that culture. During the worst of DC's time here there seemed to be a distinct feeling that the offense was letting the team down...while that may be the case then (and now) it's important for the locker room culture to band together...I think Bohl/Vigen have done that.

High offensive production is not really all that important to a team that plays like Wyoming...it's great to score more but with a light's out defense you can still be successful (and even great) with a below average offense. DC's teams were the opposite...they needed to be in the top quarter of Offenses to be successful as a team. You may point out that our Offense is too far below average and you'd get no argument from me.

Finally, for myself, a big part of my good feelings about the current program has to do with how they compete for every game. Even the "good years" from the last 20 years included some truly head-scratching blowouts. This program seems to line up toe-to-toe with even the better teams on the schedule and I've never seen that as an adult Wyoming fan. In my opinion this program is as good as it's ever been relative to the conference and schedule it plays in.

Ultimately this did not turn into much of a defense of Vigen...more of a "here is why i'm relatively happy with the current program (even with Vigen)".
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307bball wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:44 am
SheepSlayer wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:58 am For those not on the Fire Vigen bandwagon, can you make an argument that he should stay or one that defends his performance without saying "it's Bohl's decision"?

For those using the injury excuse, our offense scored 16 points against 3-9 Sun Belt team Texas St (7 of which were after an INT gave them a short field) and 21 points against 5-7 FCS team Idaho (7 of which were on a 14 yard drive after a long punt return and 7 were on a 1 play 80 yard drive). Both of those games were before the Tulsa game where we truly did get a ton of injuries.
I'm not on or off the "fire Vigen" bandwagon. Look at my numerous posts that say I could care less if he stays or goes....but I'll try to answer your question. But, I warn you, nothing I have to say should be misconstrued as a defense for poor production.

I'm very pro-the current culture and direction of the program. I have no inside information but it seems like he's well liked, and a part of, that culture. During the worst of DC's time here there seemed to be a distinct feeling that the offense was letting the team down...while that may be the case then (and now) it's important for the locker room culture to band together...I think Bohl/Vigen have done that.

High offensive production is not really all that important to a team that plays like Wyoming...it's great to score more but with a light's out defense you can still be successful (and even great) with a below average offense. DC's teams were the opposite...they needed to be in the top quarter of Offenses to be successful as a team. You may point out that our Offense is too far below average and you'd get no argument from me.

Finally, for myself, a big part of my good feelings about the current program has to do with how they compete for every game. Even the "good years" from the last 20 years included some truly head-scratching blowouts. This program seems to line up toe-to-toe with even the better teams on the schedule and I've never seen that as an adult Wyoming fan. In my opinion this program is as good as it's ever been relative to the conference and schedule it plays in.

Ultimately this did not turn into much of a defense of Vigen...more of a "here is why i'm relatively happy with the current program (even with Vigen)".
Very well stated. This team competes as good as any Wyoming team since about the 1996 Wyoming team. Even the 2016 Wyoming team had some head scratchers (see New Mexico blowout).
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OrediggerPoke wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:51 am
307bball wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:44 am
SheepSlayer wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:58 am For those not on the Fire Vigen bandwagon, can you make an argument that he should stay or one that defends his performance without saying "it's Bohl's decision"?

For those using the injury excuse, our offense scored 16 points against 3-9 Sun Belt team Texas St (7 of which were after an INT gave them a short field) and 21 points against 5-7 FCS team Idaho (7 of which were on a 14 yard drive after a long punt return and 7 were on a 1 play 80 yard drive). Both of those games were before the Tulsa game where we truly did get a ton of injuries.
I'm not on or off the "fire Vigen" bandwagon. Look at my numerous posts that say I could care less if he stays or goes....but I'll try to answer your question. But, I warn you, nothing I have to say should be misconstrued as a defense for poor production.

I'm very pro-the current culture and direction of the program. I have no inside information but it seems like he's well liked, and a part of, that culture. During the worst of DC's time here there seemed to be a distinct feeling that the offense was letting the team down...while that may be the case then (and now) it's important for the locker room culture to band together...I think Bohl/Vigen have done that.

High offensive production is not really all that important to a team that plays like Wyoming...it's great to score more but with a light's out defense you can still be successful (and even great) with a below average offense. DC's teams were the opposite...they needed to be in the top quarter of Offenses to be successful as a team. You may point out that our Offense is too far below average and you'd get no argument from me.

Finally, for myself, a big part of my good feelings about the current program has to do with how they compete for every game. Even the "good years" from the last 20 years included some truly head-scratching blowouts. This program seems to line up toe-to-toe with even the better teams on the schedule and I've never seen that as an adult Wyoming fan. In my opinion this program is as good as it's ever been relative to the conference and schedule it plays in.

Ultimately this did not turn into much of a defense of Vigen...more of a "here is why i'm relatively happy with the current program (even with Vigen)".
Very well stated. This team competes as good as any Wyoming team since about the 1996 Wyoming team. Even the 2016 Wyoming team had some head scratchers (see New Mexico blowout).
Simply isn't true. The 2011 DC team was 5-2 in the MWC. We were big road underdogs at SDS and Air Force and won both. Our 2 losses in conference were to TCU and Boise St, both of which finished the season ranked in the top 15.
If you want to count close losses as a good thing, go right ahead. But the MWC is probably the weakest its ever been. Losing close games to mediocre teams like San Diego State and Utah State are hardly games to hang your hat on if you are trying to claim we are that much better under Bohl. The 2011 team would have gone undefeated in the conference (Brett Smith's Freshman year).
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bladerunnr wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:17 am
OrediggerPoke wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:51 am
307bball wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:44 am
SheepSlayer wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:58 am For those not on the Fire Vigen bandwagon, can you make an argument that he should stay or one that defends his performance without saying "it's Bohl's decision"?

For those using the injury excuse, our offense scored 16 points against 3-9 Sun Belt team Texas St (7 of which were after an INT gave them a short field) and 21 points against 5-7 FCS team Idaho (7 of which were on a 14 yard drive after a long punt return and 7 were on a 1 play 80 yard drive). Both of those games were before the Tulsa game where we truly did get a ton of injuries.
I'm not on or off the "fire Vigen" bandwagon. Look at my numerous posts that say I could care less if he stays or goes....but I'll try to answer your question. But, I warn you, nothing I have to say should be misconstrued as a defense for poor production.

I'm very pro-the current culture and direction of the program. I have no inside information but it seems like he's well liked, and a part of, that culture. During the worst of DC's time here there seemed to be a distinct feeling that the offense was letting the team down...while that may be the case then (and now) it's important for the locker room culture to band together...I think Bohl/Vigen have done that.

High offensive production is not really all that important to a team that plays like Wyoming...it's great to score more but with a light's out defense you can still be successful (and even great) with a below average offense. DC's teams were the opposite...they needed to be in the top quarter of Offenses to be successful as a team. You may point out that our Offense is too far below average and you'd get no argument from me.

Finally, for myself, a big part of my good feelings about the current program has to do with how they compete for every game. Even the "good years" from the last 20 years included some truly head-scratching blowouts. This program seems to line up toe-to-toe with even the better teams on the schedule and I've never seen that as an adult Wyoming fan. In my opinion this program is as good as it's ever been relative to the conference and schedule it plays in.

Ultimately this did not turn into much of a defense of Vigen...more of a "here is why i'm relatively happy with the current program (even with Vigen)".
Very well stated. This team competes as good as any Wyoming team since about the 1996 Wyoming team. Even the 2016 Wyoming team had some head scratchers (see New Mexico blowout).
Simply isn't true. The 2011 DC team was 5-2 in the MWC. We were big road underdogs at SDS and Air Force and won both. Our 2 losses in conference were to TCU and Boise St, both of which finished the season ranked in the top 15.
If you want to count close losses as a good thing, go right ahead. But the MWC is probably the weakest its ever been. Losing close games to mediocre teams like San Diego State and Utah State are hardly games to hang your hat on if you are trying to claim we are that much better under Bohl. The 2011 team would have gone undefeated in the conference (Brett Smith's Freshman year).
You have to be joking!!! That 2011 team would go undefeated?!?!? WTF are you smoking.

I still have nightmares of Robert Turbin and a very mediocre Utah State team running Wyoming out of the building. 63-19 loss to 7-6 Utah State. Let me repeat that 2011 Wyoming team gave up 63 to a 7-6 Utah State team. Oh and the bowl game that year, Wyoming was also blown out 37-15 against a mediocre 9-4 MAC team (Temple was in the MAC then).

If you want to hang your hat on team getting blown out by Utah State and a MAC team, all the best to you.

PS: Wyoming lost 3 games in the MWC that season along with blowout losses to Nebraska at home and Temple in Albuquerque.
bladerunnr
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OrediggerPoke wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:42 am
bladerunnr wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:17 am
OrediggerPoke wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:51 am
307bball wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:44 am
SheepSlayer wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:58 am For those not on the Fire Vigen bandwagon, can you make an argument that he should stay or one that defends his performance without saying "it's Bohl's decision"?

For those using the injury excuse, our offense scored 16 points against 3-9 Sun Belt team Texas St (7 of which were after an INT gave them a short field) and 21 points against 5-7 FCS team Idaho (7 of which were on a 14 yard drive after a long punt return and 7 were on a 1 play 80 yard drive). Both of those games were before the Tulsa game where we truly did get a ton of injuries.
I'm not on or off the "fire Vigen" bandwagon. Look at my numerous posts that say I could care less if he stays or goes....but I'll try to answer your question. But, I warn you, nothing I have to say should be misconstrued as a defense for poor production.

I'm very pro-the current culture and direction of the program. I have no inside information but it seems like he's well liked, and a part of, that culture. During the worst of DC's time here there seemed to be a distinct feeling that the offense was letting the team down...while that may be the case then (and now) it's important for the locker room culture to band together...I think Bohl/Vigen have done that.

High offensive production is not really all that important to a team that plays like Wyoming...it's great to score more but with a light's out defense you can still be successful (and even great) with a below average offense. DC's teams were the opposite...they needed to be in the top quarter of Offenses to be successful as a team. You may point out that our Offense is too far below average and you'd get no argument from me.

Finally, for myself, a big part of my good feelings about the current program has to do with how they compete for every game. Even the "good years" from the last 20 years included some truly head-scratching blowouts. This program seems to line up toe-to-toe with even the better teams on the schedule and I've never seen that as an adult Wyoming fan. In my opinion this program is as good as it's ever been relative to the conference and schedule it plays in.

Ultimately this did not turn into much of a defense of Vigen...more of a "here is why i'm relatively happy with the current program (even with Vigen)".
Very well stated. This team competes as good as any Wyoming team since about the 1996 Wyoming team. Even the 2016 Wyoming team had some head scratchers (see New Mexico blowout).
Simply isn't true. The 2011 DC team was 5-2 in the MWC. We were big road underdogs at SDS and Air Force and won both. Our 2 losses in conference were to TCU and Boise St, both of which finished the season ranked in the top 15.
If you want to count close losses as a good thing, go right ahead. But the MWC is probably the weakest its ever been. Losing close games to mediocre teams like San Diego State and Utah State are hardly games to hang your hat on if you are trying to claim we are that much better under Bohl. The 2011 team would have gone undefeated in the conference (Brett Smith's Freshman year).
You have to be joking!!! That 2011 team would go undefeated?!?!? WTF are you smoking.

I still have nightmares of Robert Turbin and a very mediocre Utah State team running Wyoming out of the building. 63-19 loss to 7-6 Utah State. Let me repeat that 2011 Wyoming team gave up 63 to a 7-6 Utah State team. Oh and the bowl game that year, Wyoming was also blown out 37-15 against a mediocre 9-4 MAC team (Temple was in the MAC then).

If you want to hang your hat on team getting blown out by Utah State and a MAC team, all the best to you.

PS: Wyoming lost 3 games in the MWC that season along with blowout losses to Nebraska at home and Temple in Albuquerque.
Utah St. was not in the conference then. We had only 2 conference losses. Our defense improved dramatically after that Utah St. loss. The offense was dynamic and if Brett Smith doesn't get hurt, we might have beat TCU as well. We played a lot tougher non conference schedule back then. Nebraska ended the season in the top 20. Where did Missouri finish the year? They fired their coach. The fact is, we did not have a single quality win this year or last year.
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