Vigen has to go

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Asmodeanreborn
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OrediggerPoke wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:03 am Additionally making the conclusion that because TVW and Chambers have low completion percentages must mean they don’t get coaching is silly and lacking in logic.
Have you watched them throw the ball? Both of them were fairly accurate high school passers, yet they can't complete even the short throws, just like Josh couldn't. I don't base their throwing just on low completion percentages - I base it on how many times they have zero touch on their throws. How many times has we seen them throw the ball straight into the ground to a wide open receiver? Or three feet over the head on the lateral to the runningback?

That long interview with Allen somebody posted here was pretty telling. He talked about how he'd had to learn to throw short and intermediate throws, completely changing his technique. We saw that weakness in his first year here, and yet it's not until the Pros that it was successfully worked on? Is that Josh's fault?

Is it a coincidence that both Chambers and TVW have the exact same problem?
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ItSucksToBeACSURam
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brownngold wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:09 pm
ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote: Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:57 am
ragtimejoe1 wrote: Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:41 am
ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote: Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:57 am
307bball wrote: Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:31 am Here what i'm pretty certain of...The instant that Craig Bohl feels like he can get better results with a different system or different personnel he will make that change. There is no way that anybody on that staff is saying "Boy, we would be amazing if we had a different system/playcalls/OC, but because we value loyalty and old-school football we won't change". They are certain that what they are teaching/coaching gives the Wyoming football team the best chance that it has to win...and frankly as a fan I want the leaders at Wyoming to have that attitude...especially in the middle of the season. The personal attacks on Bohl/Vigen leave a bad taste in my mouth...
This brings up an interesting conundrum then. As we have seen in the past, when Bohl does see issues, he fixes them. Stanard is the best example I can think of. SO, based on what we've seen with Bohl's behavior and the fact that in his time here, Bohl's offenses have abysmal, to be kind, it leaves only two rational conclusions for me to gravitate towards. Either this above statement is true, and Bohl doesn't think the system is broken/needs addressed/etc. OR this isn't true and Bohl IS valuing his relationship with Vigen over results on the field. Both are unacceptable if we truly believe we are on an upward trajectory towards program relevance and sustainability.

Which would we rather have?
OR Bohl knows the O needs work but doesn't believe Vigen is the problem. Perhaps Bohl views something else as the problem and it can't be addressed until the offseason.
I too think Vigen is in over his head, but I give Bohl the benefit of the doubt. If he thinks it's something else, let's see what he does to fix it.
This will be his 6th offseason to address it.... Whats different this season from his first? I sure hope Bohl has finally seen enough...
What went wrong today?
Ah the old "we won today so all the crappy decisions mean nothing" argument. Nice.

Vigen called a decent game against CSU. Not a great game but he enough to keep ahead of the sticks and put us in position to win.

Hopefully we see more of this.
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laxwyo
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seattlecowboy wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:50 pm
laxwyo wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:19 pm I really don’t see the different in winning 34-24 or 17-7. I know it’d make you wankers happy, but there’s zero difference.
It doesn’t make a difference if you are winning. The problem is there are 4 losses on our record that we could have won if the offense could pass the ball just average. But we suck on offense so that won’t ever happen with this coaching staff.
And you don’t know how many losses we would have if we would have tried something different. You all want your cake and eat it too. What if we went play action on the play that chambers or X popped for 60 yards. You don’t. We did exactly what we needed to do to win the games we did and were one play away from winning a couple others.
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ItSucksToBeACSURam
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laxwyo wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:20 pm
seattlecowboy wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:50 pm
laxwyo wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:19 pm I really don’t see the different in winning 34-24 or 17-7. I know it’d make you wankers happy, but there’s zero difference.
It doesn’t make a difference if you are winning. The problem is there are 4 losses on our record that we could have won if the offense could pass the ball just average. But we suck on offense so that won’t ever happen with this coaching staff.
And you don’t know how many losses we would have if we would have tried something different. You all want your cake and eat it too. What if we went play action on the play that chambers or X popped for 60 yards. You don’t. We did exactly what we needed to do to win the games we did and were one play away from winning a couple others.
You literally just proved the naysayers correct. We're relying on the 60 yard poppers to win games. We're not winning games because of a game plan that dominates (or hell, just works). We're getting lucky more so than imposing our will.

Ball domination was a tenant of Bohl's style and I would be interested to see how many games we have won the time of possession this season.
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ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:23 pm
laxwyo wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:20 pm
seattlecowboy wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:50 pm
laxwyo wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:19 pm I really don’t see the different in winning 34-24 or 17-7. I know it’d make you wankers happy, but there’s zero difference.
It doesn’t make a difference if you are winning. The problem is there are 4 losses on our record that we could have won if the offense could pass the ball just average. But we suck on offense so that won’t ever happen with this coaching staff.
And you don’t know how many losses we would have if we would have tried something different. You all want your cake and eat it too. What if we went play action on the play that chambers or X popped for 60 yards. You don’t. We did exactly what we needed to do to win the games we did and were one play away from winning a couple others.
You literally just proved the naysayers correct. We're relying on the 60 yard poppers to win games. We're not winning games because of a game plan that dominates (or hell, just works). We're getting lucky more so than imposing our will.

Ball domination was a tenant of Bohl's style and I would be interested to see how many games we have won the time of possession this season.
Wyoming averages 30.21 minutes per game in TOP. That's pretty much an even split with the opposition so I'm not sure that counts as domination ;)
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ItSucksToBeACSURam
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CowboyNV wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:29 pm
ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:23 pm
laxwyo wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:20 pm
seattlecowboy wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:50 pm
laxwyo wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:19 pm I really don’t see the different in winning 34-24 or 17-7. I know it’d make you wankers happy, but there’s zero difference.
It doesn’t make a difference if you are winning. The problem is there are 4 losses on our record that we could have won if the offense could pass the ball just average. But we suck on offense so that won’t ever happen with this coaching staff.
And you don’t know how many losses we would have if we would have tried something different. You all want your cake and eat it too. What if we went play action on the play that chambers or X popped for 60 yards. You don’t. We did exactly what we needed to do to win the games we did and were one play away from winning a couple others.
You literally just proved the naysayers correct. We're relying on the 60 yard poppers to win games. We're not winning games because of a game plan that dominates (or hell, just works). We're getting lucky more so than imposing our will.

Ball domination was a tenant of Bohl's style and I would be interested to see how many games we have won the time of possession this season.
Wyoming averages 30.21 minutes per game in TOP. That's pretty much an even split with the opposition so I'm not sure that counts as domination ;)
Oh wow. That's even higher than I would have expected. I'd like to see that closer to 35-25 but its better than I thought.
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CowboyNV
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Here's a link to the stats YTD:

https://gowyo.com/sports/football/stats
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ItSucksToBeACSURam
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CowboyNV wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:34 pm Here's a link to the stats YTD:

https://gowyo.com/sports/football/stats
Cool thanks
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laxwyo
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I’ll take 7 wins with essentially freshmen QBs every time is the stat I care about
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laxwyo wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:52 pm I’ll take 7 wins with essentially freshmen QBs every time is the stat I care about
Add in the injuries, add in a bunch of stuff, and the fact that we aren't losing by much, have our 4th winning season in a row, defense is dominating, offense is putting up some decent stats, GPA's are up, attendance is up, I won't complain.

I have alot of wishes. But at the end of the damn day, this coaching staff has been putting us in a position to win every game this year (and competitive most games the last few years). They are now doing it with their recruits. The quality of their recruits is improving every year.

The team is disciplined and not gimmicky. This year is great, next year will be greater, and its just going to keep getting better.

Regardless, this team and staff is putting in the hard and uncomfortable work. They aren't taking shortcuts.

I'm excited about what I see.
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Great win against our rival!
Rest is pretty simple. Bohl is perfect for WYO. Offense needs fixed; it's a mess. TVW and Chambers can't throw consistently and don't seem to show signs of progress. Place blame wherever on that but it's true. The current offense is fine to beat sub 75 teams but if we ever want to beat teams above 50 to 75, the offense has to improve. That's also fact. The only year we beat teams above 75 (maybe 50) was when the offense ranked in the 20s. Again, place blame wherever but if you want wins against teams with a pulse, the offense has to do better. I'm pretty sure Bohl isn't happy with the offense despite what he says on camera.
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Asmodeanreborn wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:10 am
OrediggerPoke wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:03 am Additionally making the conclusion that because TVW and Chambers have low completion percentages must mean they don’t get coaching is silly and lacking in logic.
Have you watched them throw the ball? Both of them were fairly accurate high school passers, yet they can't complete even the short throws, just like Josh couldn't. I don't base their throwing just on low completion percentages - I base it on how many times they have zero touch on their throws. How many times has we seen them throw the ball straight into the ground to a wide open receiver? Or three feet over the head on the lateral to the runningback?

That long interview with Allen somebody posted here was pretty telling. He talked about how he'd had to learn to throw short and intermediate throws, completely changing his technique. We saw that weakness in his first year here, and yet it's not until the Pros that it was successfully worked on? Is that Josh's fault?

Is it a coincidence that both Chambers and TVW have the exact same problem?
FYI Chambers was a sub 50% passer in HS. That's not fairly accurate.
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laxwyo
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Josh was not accurate in HS or JC. The notion that our OC is somehow wrecking QBs is absurd. They don’t get all that much time with them.
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laxwyo wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:44 pm Josh was not accurate in HS or JC. The notion that our OC is somehow wrecking QBs is absurd. They don’t get all that much time with them.
Right how does not being recruited to play D1 ball to being a first round draft pick in 3 years equal taking a player backwards?

The theory of the more inaccurate and less touch on the short passes is a result of coaching, or is it perhaps a recruiting thing? I.e. Bohl and Vigen are willing to accept recruiting QB's that have that issue while other FBS coaches say nope?
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DVDA wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:34 pm
Wyokie wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:59 pm Sadly Bohl won't fire him. They're good buddies.
Honestly, it's the state of healthcare. Do you know how much it would cost to get Vigen's mouth surgically removed from Bohl's asshole? UW can't afford that.
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WyoBrandX wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:14 am
Add in the injuries, add in a bunch of stuff, and the fact that we aren't losing by much, have our 4th winning season in a row...
You know something I don’t?
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jessejames02 wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:34 am
WyoBrandX wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:14 am
Add in the injuries, add in a bunch of stuff, and the fact that we aren't losing by much, have our 4th winning season in a row...
You know something I don’t?
Probably. You probably know something I don't as well. Can you be more specific?
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To all those who said you can’t micromanage to get rid of vigen, do you still stand by this? I for one would love it if burman told Bohl he had to make a change after another terribly coached game. Bohl has had 6 years to do it, and if he can’t stomach that then he isn’t cowboy tough. He shouldn’t need to be micromanaged but we will never get past 7 wins with vigen unless we have a top ten nfl draft pick at qb and as much as I love going to bowl games, I think it’s fair as a fan to not want to spend January in Boise.
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Asmodeanreborn
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SheepSlayer wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:47 pm To all those who said you can’t micromanage to get rid of vigen, do you still stand by this? I for one would love it if burman told Bohl he had to make a change after another terribly coached game. Bohl has had 6 years to do it, and if he can’t stomach that then he isn’t cowboy tough. He shouldn’t need to be micromanaged but we will never get past 7 wins with vigen unless we have a top ten nfl draft pick at qb and as much as I love going to bowl games, I think it’s fair as a fan to not want to spend January in Boise.
I think the most telling thing is that even Air Force is better at throwing the ball than we are, and if anybody's a run-heavy offense, it's theirs. 228 Yards of offense for us today. The defense did its job once again, but the offense didn't.

But apparently you can't teach our receivers to catch and the quarterbacks to throw it. I hear it's impossible, even. Josh Allen couldn't be taught to be accurate either.
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ItSucksToBeACSURam
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How anyone can continue to defend this offensive scheme is beyond me. It’s a coaches job to make adjustment to allow his players to succeed. Vigen refuses to do anything to put his players in high leverage situations.
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