fromolwyoming
Well-known member
Well, the DOW Jones just dropped like a hammer today. 650 points.
http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/02/investing/why-dow-dropping/index.html
http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/02/investing/why-dow-dropping/index.html
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Why are we Americans enamored by Harry and
- Thread starter CheyenneGunslinger
- Start date
Asmodeanreborn
Well-known member
CowboyNV said:
It drives me nuts how feelings and opinions are suddenly every bit as valuable as facts and science. I've seen too many people lately just lose hope when facing the unstoppable tide of idiocy. It seems to be the worst when related to politics, but even my former co-worker who has a Ph.D. in microbiology has been called a shill for "big pharma" lately just because she's a proponent for vaccines in the anti-vaccination Mecca that is Boulder. She doesn't work with anything even remotely related to medicine or pharmaceuticals.
Asmodeanreborn said:
I absolutely agree. I became an independent many years ago, after the advent of the Internet and the ability to do research on my own (I was a lifelong conservative up to that point). While I still needed to filter each thing I read, I was able to formulate good decisions based upon that research. I rarely take anything at face value, especially a politician or a news article. However, if I read several articles on the same subject I can arrive at an independent conclusion. Once the visceral emotion is removed from the equation, seeing a politician's actions for what they truly are becomes much easier. As you so astutely stated, these feelings and opinions have now siphoned over into private life and the lack of independent thinking by many of my friends has a detrimental effect on our relationships. It seems I now deal with a mostly closed minded group of friends who cannot be moved off their "opinions" no matter how many facts they are given. I would call them sheep, but that would be an insult to sheep. They are followers, and have been followers most of their lives. They are more akin to mindless lemmings who march through life with a glazed look in their eyes and drool on their chins...think two year old toddlers who need a nap.
Asmodeanreborn
Well-known member
Also "independent" and unhappy about the way things are moving. It scares me with all these actual level-headed conservatives announcing retirement one by one, because the people who are going to run for their seats are pretty much all bat shit crazy. The fact that somebody like Arpaio could legitimately get a seat in Congress is insane. He was in prison for a reason! He committed a LOT of crimes to end up there, including going against the U.S. Constitution's 8th Amendment, but let's just gloss that over.
How the hell did all this happen?
On the other side of things, there's a record number of actual scientists running for office this year, but none of them are going to have a chance.
How the hell did all this happen?
On the other side of things, there's a record number of actual scientists running for office this year, but none of them are going to have a chance.
Asmodeanreborn
Well-known member
Completely related to all of this, and no, this is not a "liberal" source. It's an independent non-US source.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/feb/06/sharing-fake-news-us-rightwing-study-trump-university-of-oxford
This lines up with exactly what I'm seeing with friends on social media, unfortunately. These random blogs are linked to by my Evangelical friends and family as if they're super-credible, or they're buying into the newest conspiracy theories from infowars.
"THE FBI IS A LIBERAL DEEP STATE THREAT!"
"Uh, remember how FBI has always been conservative and how its leaders are pretty much all life-long Republicans, and how Trump personally appointed Wray?"
"FAKE NEWS SHILLARY BENGHAZI!"
And it's just getting worse and worse. How the hell did we arrive here? How can we take back the GOP from the insanity that's going on? If we don't, where do we end up? I don't know what I've done to suddenly count as a libtard, but it's annoying the hell out of me.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/feb/06/sharing-fake-news-us-rightwing-study-trump-university-of-oxford
This lines up with exactly what I'm seeing with friends on social media, unfortunately. These random blogs are linked to by my Evangelical friends and family as if they're super-credible, or they're buying into the newest conspiracy theories from infowars.
"THE FBI IS A LIBERAL DEEP STATE THREAT!"
"Uh, remember how FBI has always been conservative and how its leaders are pretty much all life-long Republicans, and how Trump personally appointed Wray?"
"FAKE NEWS SHILLARY BENGHAZI!"
And it's just getting worse and worse. How the hell did we arrive here? How can we take back the GOP from the insanity that's going on? If we don't, where do we end up? I don't know what I've done to suddenly count as a libtard, but it's annoying the hell out of me.
fromolwyoming
Well-known member
Don't forget that Trump thought that the Democrats that didn't applaud him during his State of the Union Speech was a treasonous act.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/02/05/trump-blasts-treasonous-democrats-not-applauding-his-state-union-address/301962002/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/02/05/trump-blasts-treasonous-democrats-not-applauding-his-state-union-address/301962002/
Asmodeanreborn
Well-known member
That's one way to downgrade the actual meaning of the word "treason," I suppose.
WestWYOPoke
Well-known member
Asmodeanreborn said:
So he's thinking ahead...smart
CheyenneGunslinger
Well-known member
CowboyNV said:Asmodeanreborn said:CheyenneGunslinger said:
Obama already did do it.
Unemployment:
African American Unemployment:
GDP Growth:
Dow Industrial:
In other words, no economic trends have really changed under Trump yet. Personally, I don't give a rat's ass about the stock market either, since largely growth in the stock market only provides a big payout for the people who have a lot of stock and can also reap its gains at a ridiculously low tax rate, as opposed to those among us who do actual work. How the DOW does says nothing about how the average American is faring. Plenty of middle class Americans saw ZERO benefit from the stock markets soaring under the last few years of Obama's administration. I think the best evidence of this is how many people didn't even realize the stock markets were doing awesome... they only noticed that their own pay checks had not been getting bigger.
The recent tax reform only gives money to the people who already had it, and who also didn't really spend it. I think it'll ultimately lead to yet another recession, and will be used as an excuse to cut social services, veteran benefits, and education funding.
Careful, people like Cheyenne Gunslinger hate facts. It fucks up their distorted view of the world.
No, I'm not afraid of facts. The facts speak for themselves. The DOW has broken something like 70 plus records under Trump. Look at the shape increases in the DOW since Trump was elected and the slow increases when Obama was in office.
If anyone doesn't think the average American has benefitted from the rise in the DOW then sadly they are very misinformed. Just about everyone I know has a 401K (and these are average working Americans) and they watch it very carefully.
Asmodeanreborn
Well-known member
Uh, do you even know how to read a graph? The general trend is the exact same. If you look at any local max or mins, you better also include the huge drop two weeks ago as well.CheyenneGunslinger said:
Yes, most people have a 401k, but what you apparently fail to realize is that for a vast majority of people, these gains are also completely dependent on what your wages look like, along with how much you can afford to put away. Recent decades with little to no wage growth means people haven't been putting away nearly as much as they should have in their 401k, and as company matching usually is percentage-based, if your salary doesn't rise significantly, your contribution doesn't either.
This is no fault of Trump's as it's been going on for a long time, but neither is this rise in the stock market something that significantly improves the standard of living for anybody in the middle class. In fact, it's the opposite, since we're borrowing from future generations to give corporate America a record windfall.
And while we're on the subject, maybe we should talk about how the promise of no more budget deficits was complete bullcrap. After the great recession, we had finally started reigning the deficit in... and now we lower taxes like crazy in a good economy? That's the opposite of fiscal responsibility, and leaves us with no room for stimulus when the next crash happens. 2018's Budget projected deficit is already $833 Billion... compare that to $585 Billion in 2015. There's talk about Medicare and Medicaid cuts now, something we were promised would not happen. But whatever, the poor only have themselves to blame for being poor, right?
And I suppose I ought to point out that I'm a bit of a hypocrite. The tax cuts put more money in my wallet right now, but that's at the expense of not being able to take advantage of itemized deductions anymore. Those would have gotten me a much larger tax return, but I guess it more or less evens out now (I hope). The thing is, I don't need more. I've lucked out in life and have received quite a few breaks. I recognize that even one wrong turn could have put me in a desperate situation, though, and I'd hate to imagine that somehow not having an adequate safety net for people is justified just because I don't personally need it, so I'll have more money in my wallet if I'm not paying for it.
Then again, cancer can hit anybody, and if I was to get cancer and lose my job (yes, there are legal protections, but if time drags out, you'll be let go eventually) after not being able to work, I'd eventually be unable to pay for my health insurance and my family would lose everything, so there's that.
CheyenneGunslinger
Well-known member
Asmodeanreborn said:
Well, I tell you what to do hot rod. You take your charts to the bank and I'll take my money that I made in 2017 to the bank and let's see which one gets results.
Asmodeanreborn
Well-known member
And it's that damned selfish attitude that will crash this freaking country. "I got mine, screw you and all people in need."
Yes, I got significantly more money into my bank account thanks to the tax cut, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing for the nation as a whole. I'm fine with the budget running at a deficit, but not the kind of deficit that will completely cripple future generations (including my son's), and that's where we're currently headed.
Once upon a time "fiscally conservative" actually meant something. Now it's "ROB FUTURE GENERATIONS BLIND WHILE WE MAKE A QUICK PROFIT." Where the hell did the fiscally conservative people I agreed with go?
Yes, I got significantly more money into my bank account thanks to the tax cut, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing for the nation as a whole. I'm fine with the budget running at a deficit, but not the kind of deficit that will completely cripple future generations (including my son's), and that's where we're currently headed.
Once upon a time "fiscally conservative" actually meant something. Now it's "ROB FUTURE GENERATIONS BLIND WHILE WE MAKE A QUICK PROFIT." Where the hell did the fiscally conservative people I agreed with go?
CheyenneGunslinger
Well-known member
fromolwyoming said:
Well, look at the DOW now! Look at it now, Cowboy!
