The Viability of Wyoming Football

[BringBackStutzriem]

Needs to be seriously considered.

As a quick preface, I'm brand new to the forums. It's not hard to pinpoint the catalyst for joining - I need some commiserating audience with which to discuss the latest Himalayan poop that Wyoming football just dropped all over Laramie.

It couldn't possibly get worse than being manhandled in our home opener by a team that was two divisions lower than us when Joe Glenn was head coach, right? Sidenote, was it really that long ago that we were purportedly in the toilet of toilets in Glenn's final season - only to see everything spiral down tenfold in the time since?

Well, gents, it just did. We didn't just get our asses kicked on the scoreboard by Eastern Michigan - we were completely out-executed, out-manned, out-coached, and out-everything'd...by f-word Eastern Michigan. The same program that hasn't won a non conference road game since Ronald f-word Regan was president.

If that sounds like a familiar story, it's because IT IS A FAMILIAR GODDAMNED STORY. The same thing happened last week against North Dakota. Wyoming was extremely fortunate the score wasn't 42-13 against the mascot-less wonders last week (and, realistically, Gentry's touchdown doesn't happen against any team where the safety isn't lulled into a dreamlike haze by the boredom of winning your first-ever game against a D-1 team...well, maybe against Rahim Moore).

Today, it was by the grace of some ungodly god that Wyoming wasn't losing 49-7 at half-time. Yes, I said that correctly. Eastern Michigan should have probably converted its touchdown to take a 42-7 lead, and Nick Smith's abomination of a back-shoulder throw, into the turf, would have been pick-sixed by any cornerback who...well, wasn't playing for a program of the caliber of Eastern Michigan.

We're talking getting dismantled by arguably one of the worst programs in the nation, at home. So what the hell does that make us, exactly?

Here's the deal, guys. I don't know what to make of Craig Bohl as a head coach. His success at North Dakota State was absolutely remarkable. He's one of the greatest FCS coaches of all-time. He clearly knows football.

But I do know that Bohl's base salary is twice of what Joe Glenn's was (and the incentives grow from there). Say what you want to about Glenn (I'm not here to crown him as some exalted saint of Wyoming football), but he boasted wins over UCLA, Tennessee, Virginia, Ole Miss (twice), Utah, and BYU. It probably also should have included a second win over Virginia and one over Syracuse. Since he's left, our best win is over a Fresno State program (in a fringe bowl game) that is now in the same sub-tier conference that we're in. And we've paid two coaches far more handsomely.

What I'm getting at, here, is that it's no longer a coaching issue, a personnel issue, an execution issue. It's an institutional one.

Since we joined the Mountain West Conference in 1999, Wyoming's cumulative record is 74-118. Our pinnacle of 8 wins in 2011 were derived from the most farcical schedule conceivable, and the subsequent ass-kicking we received from Temple in the bowl game was consequently earned. In that span, I'd argue that the closest stretch we came to being a legitimately competitive program occurred from 2004-07, with a series of injuries, untimely turnovers, and general bad-luck derailing us. Our 2006 team was probably the best overall squad since joining the MWC...and they finished the season a whopping 6-6.

But it's not just that we're losing. I counted 29 games that we've lost by 30+ points since 1999. We've now lost to two FCS schools in four seasons (and legitimate scares in 2009, 2010, and 2011). And we're getting our asses handed to us by bottom dwellers.

Sorry, the Pokes aren't tough - and we haven't been for some time.

All while this is happening, ticket prices at War Memorial have escalated immensely. Remember the days of the Knothole? It was still around for Joe Glenn's first game, vs. Montana State, in 2003. Tickets were $5-10. A face-value seat to today's game ran around $40. Today's game may have been the single-most poorly played Division-I football game (on a cumulative quality of play by both teams) I've ever seen. So someone, PLEASE, tell me just how in the hell you're going to keep people buying season tickets (when they cost nearly as much as Broncos tickets - yes, a product of lightyears difference) when Wyoming turns out a result like the one today?

Let's go over a few things, briefly.

The post-game on the radio with Dave and Kevin was (as my face turned ashen) sunshine and rainbows - as usual. At one point, someone managed to say, "And you know who impressed me a bit was Nick Smith, he really hung tough out there." Nick Smith might be a great kid and, on a personal level, he doesn't deserve one lick of hatred. But from a quarterback evaluation, I've never seen a more inept performance at a collegiate level (not I-AA, D-II, or D-III). His final stat line was 3-13 for 0 yards. Just re-read that before gnashing your forehead against the hard edge of your laptop.

We continue to hear all about how Bohl's brand of "Wyoming football" was represented in the second half. Well, when you're losing by 24 points at halftime, an opposing defense tends to go a bit lax, so...no, I am not going to anoint Brian Hill as a saint after rushing for 240 yards (or however many it was) because Eastern Michigan is not a good team. Eastern Michigan will be fortunate to win three games.

What we don't hear, that should be proffered, is the possibility that Wyoming might not be a contender in the Big Sky this season. Actually, let's remove the "might" from that statement. We're a middling team, at best, in the Big Sky this season.

So, if Wyoming isn't a contender in an FCS conference, where does that leave us? At an impasse of questioning what in the holy hell we're still doing pumping so much money into a failing D-I product.

Look, football doesn't turn a profit. It loses money, even at many bigger schools, and certainly at Wyoming. It's not a draw for students to the university. No out-of-state student comes to Wyoming because he/she is enamored with Wyoming football ("I just can't want to get the poop kicked out of us every time fall comes around!!") No, they come to UW because it's a fantastic value school with some very good programs (and not just energy/engineering, but also business, science/ag, liberal arts, etc.

The Montana/North Dakota State kickoff game several weekends ago was one of the most thrilling contests I've seen in a long time. It was an incredible atmosphere. Fever pitch, even. The kind of atmosphere we've dreamed of seeing in Laramie for years. And, you know what? IT HAPPENED IN FCS FOOTBALL.

From an endowment/enrollment/competitive/everything standpoint, the Big Sky is a far more comparable continuum of football programs to Wyoming than, well, anything in D-I football. We fit in. It makes sense.

As the tectonic plates of college football continue to shift up our asses and separate the have's from the have-not's in the college football world even further, it's time to seriously start popping the question.

Because vesting millions upon millions into football facilities for a failing program - all while the state faces a potential funding crisis for public education in the future - is not the god damned answer.

The silence at War Memorial Stadium today wasn't of the stunned variety - it was like the stunned silence following a bad wedding toast given by someone who left the building shortly thereafter. Well folks, Wyoming football is about to leave the building.

[cali2wyo]

I have a feeling DINO created a new account just so he could express his true feelings without getting a response of "I told you so" from the entire board lol.

[Hayduke]

Wow. Helluva post.

I also agree that the post game radio show was all unicorns and cotton candy. Thank god I was able to het Pandora on instead.

[Cuttslam]

Damn you had me till you went to the lets move down to FCS. Then you went into full retard mode.

[BringBackStutzriem]

Damn you had me till you went to the lets move down to FCS. Then you went into full retard mode.

Explain to me, then, precisely how dropping down to FCS football and building to contend for national championships is somehow less merited than falling further and further into perennial 2-10 hell in D-I...all while the fiscal challenges grow more and more unsolvable??

And don't give me the argument that attendance would suffer, because it wouldn't change. People in Wyoming support Wyoming for the same reasons that people in Montana support Montana. There are no pro teams here, it's a state institution. The level of excitement and support would be infinitely higher for a Wyoming team that's 11-2 and contending for an FCS national title than one that's 3-9 in late November.

Oh, and I don't buy the "let's get to 11-2 in D-I instead" argument, either. It's not 1996 anymore. The college football landscape has changed FAR too much...and if in a few years we get to the point where paying players a small stipend becomes mandatory, forget it altogether.

[cali2wyo]

If the administration, fan base, etc. isn't motivated enough to contend for championships in our current emvironment, what makes you think we'll magically have the drive to contend for lower division success?

[bladerunnr]

Awesome post. I don't want to agree with it. But really, ever since Vic, were not competitive. As long as the big money donors keep giving, I can't see us dropping football or dropping down a division. But unless we get a Paul Roach kind of miracle, I don't see what is going to save this program.

[LanderPoke]

Shut the f-word up about moving down, please. Just STFU already

[BringBackStutzriem]

I just want to float one more idea out there. If this is all a "pride" thing...how about we think about Wichita State dropping its football program? Gonzaga, Xavier, Marquette, Creighton, St. Mary's, and other schools have done so.

I think most of us would give our left nut for a Final Four run like Wichita State and Marquette have enjoyed. Or the perennial basketball success that all of those schools have. I think I could entertain the idea of giving up (or at least dropping down a division) a failing football program in favor of boosting a basketball program that actually has a legitimate chance (albeit a slim one) of reaching that sort of stage.

[Cuttslam]

I just want to float one more idea out there. If this is all a "pride" thing...how about we think about Wichita State dropping its football program? Gonzaga, Xavier, Marquette, Creighton, St. Mary's, and other schools have done so.

I think most of us would give our left nut for a Final Four run like Wichita State and Marquette have enjoyed. Or the perennial basketball success that all of those schools have. I think I could entertain the idea of giving up (or at least dropping down a division) a failing football program in favor of boosting a basketball program that actually has a legitimate chance (albeit a slim one) of reaching that sort of stage.

I feel like I just watched dumb and dumber. The sequel.

[BringBackStutzriem]

I just want to float one more idea out there. If this is all a "pride" thing...how about we think about Wichita State dropping its football program? Gonzaga, Xavier, Marquette, Creighton, St. Mary's, and other schools have done so.

I think most of us would give our left nut for a Final Four run like Wichita State and Marquette have enjoyed. Or the perennial basketball success that all of those schools have. I think I could entertain the idea of giving up (or at least dropping down a division) a failing football program in favor of boosting a basketball program that actually has a legitimate chance (albeit a slim one) of reaching that sort of stage.

I feel like I just watched dumb and dumber. The sequel.

And I feel like I just watched a failing program, earlier today, continue to fail even harder with no apparent hope in sight for any sort of a turnaround. Because there hasn't been one in the last 15+ years, and it's only going to get harder in the future. I'm proposing some viable alternatives and raising legit questions. You cool with just watching Wyoming continue to fall flat on its face every season, for every season to come?

Competing in college sports as a disadvantaged school isn't just some magical seed that you plant and watch and hope it grows a beanstalk. You need to be a realist. It's time to be realists about Wyoming football. It hasn't gone anywhere for 15+ years, and it's not going anywhere anytime soon.

[seattlecowboy]

I just want to float one more idea out there. If this is all a "pride" thing...how about we think about Wichita State dropping its football program? Gonzaga, Xavier, Marquette, Creighton, St. Mary's, and other schools have done so.

I think most of us would give our left nut for a Final Four run like Wichita State and Marquette have enjoyed. Or the perennial basketball success that all of those schools have. I think I could entertain the idea of giving up (or at least dropping down a division) a failing football program in favor of boosting a basketball program that actually has a legitimate chance (albeit a slim one) of reaching that sort of stage.

Only problem is that if we moved to FCS we lose not a little but a LOT of money which means even the basketball program suffers and you won't be able to recruit basketball as well anymore either so then you end up with a crap basketball program as well.

I do think they should put more money into the basketball program though because we do have a lot more of a chance to compete in basketball than we do football.

[FarmerPoke]

Amazing, amazing post, definitely gonna ruffle some feathers for sure, but pretty much sums up what my thoughts have been on this program for almost a decade now. I'm gonna copy paste something I posted a while back in a different thread that got buried regarding my opinion along these lines, as well as the coinciding discrepancies toward the basketball program.


"I'm not wanting to start a war about where financial priority should go, but since you wanted an explanation, I'll throw in my 2 cents, which is simply opinion.

Over the last several years I would say priority has been given to improving football facilities, i.e. dollars upon dollars being spent to build the Indoor Practice Facility, Jonah field improvements, East Side of War Memorial Wildcatter Suites and improvements, etc. These expenditures have occurred during an era of Wyoming football where the on field product in general has left much to be desired, and as of this moment, has shown no sign of improvement, obviously I hope Bohl and co. can be the answer and turn Wyo football around, but again my opinion only, I feel the expenditures into the football program are like trying to beat a dead horse to life.

Looking at the basketball program, I only know things I've heard from others, so I'm definitely not a reputable source. With that being said, the whole AA project that kept getting delayed and delayed, and then the 2nd phase essentially indefinitely postponed citing cost, shows to me that the folks that are in charge are not willing to expend the energy or resources at this point to provide the best of the best in facilities for the 2 major programs that have shown any sign of life at all in the last 3 decades, particularly with what Shyatt has the potential to build with the men's program. I'm not downplaying what has been done to the AA because it is beautiful and a great improvement, just pointing out the discrepancy. During the season there was a problem with the arena appearing to be fairly empty because season ticket holders didn't go to games, and no action was taken to try and remedy the problem to improve game atmosphere. Another issue I've heard is that it doesn't seem like there is much effort put into trying to create solutions for the extreme difficulties that have been well documented in scheduling quality opponents, particularly getting teams to come to Laramie. Definitely a unique problem, and I can't say I really know a solution, but Shyatt has been on record saying that he has asked for help and been turned a deaf ear.

I also feel that football is the more promoted sport on campus, in Laramie, and in general among the wyoming fan base. Just look at the difference in postings just on wyonation alone. The football board has more than double the posts that the basketball board has, showing that just in a basic fan forum, there is far more fan interest in a football team that has been poor for decades, than for a basketball team that just won a conference championship. I say this with a grain of salt because I will concede that the Schroyer years were a dark age for the basketball program and drove many fans away, and in general good years have been few and far between going back before that as well.

I don't have any answers, I wish I were smart enough to offer solutions and present them, but sadly about all I know how to do is drive a tractor in a straight line and irrigate with a shovel . I just think that it would be much easier to build and maintain a legit, year in year out championship contending basketball program than a football program, and could be done at less of a cost than a football program would, given it takes less staff, less players, smaller venue, etc etc.

I also could be completely wrong ."

[Cuttslam]

I just want to float one more idea out there. If this is all a "pride" thing...how about we think about Wichita State dropping its football program? Gonzaga, Xavier, Marquette, Creighton, St. Mary's, and other schools have done so.

I think most of us would give our left nut for a Final Four run like Wichita State and Marquette have enjoyed. Or the perennial basketball success that all of those schools have. I think I could entertain the idea of giving up (or at least dropping down a division) a failing football program in favor of boosting a basketball program that actually has a legitimate chance (albeit a slim one) of reaching that sort of stage.

I feel like I just watched dumb and dumber. The sequel.

And I feel like I just watched a failing program, earlier today, continue to fail even harder with no apparent hope in sight for any sort of a turnaround. Because there hasn't been one in the last 15+ years, and it's only going to get harder in the future. I'm proposing some viable alternatives and raising legit questions. You cool with just watching Wyoming continue to fall flat on its face every season, for every season to come?

Yea, you don't post here much do you.

[Asmodeanreborn]

This hit hard, but... yeah. I don't think today's or last week's Wyoming team could compete in FCS either, though. Did anybody pay attention to what North Dakota did in their home opener today? They almost lost to Drake.

Drake. The team that struggled with William Jewell in week 1. William Jewell, who got taken behind the shed by Colorado School of Mines today to the tune of 42-7... I could go on.



That said, if Wyoming drops football, I think their other sports (basketball included) will suffer. Maybe the university should just focus on providing the best possible education instead. :-/

[BringBackStutzriem]

Over the last several years I would say priority has been given to improving football facilities, i.e. dollars upon dollars being spent to build the Indoor Practice Facility, Jonah field improvements, East Side of War Memorial Wildcatter Suites and improvements, etc. These expenditures have occurred during an era of Wyoming football where the on field product in general has left much to be desired, and as of this moment, has shown no sign of improvement, obviously I hope Bohl and co. can be the answer and turn Wyo football around, but again my opinion only, I feel the expenditures into the football program are like trying to beat a dead horse to life.

Absolutely spot-on, and it was a great post. This is an entirely different climate and era of college football than when we lost Joe Tiller and Dana Dimel because they sought coaching upgrades. Our next three coaches were all fired because their programs couldn't cut it, and our fourth is clearly off to a resounding start. At what point do we start questioning the notion that it's maybe not a matter of who is coaching - it's the circumstances surrounding the University of Wyoming, in Laramie, Wyoming, population 32,000, trying to be competitive when we're faced with insurmountable, inherent disadvantages.

We're even in a different college football landscape than the one Joe Glenn had when UW truly seemed on the verge of turning the corner (the only time since 1999 that we've been there) in 2005. It's been 10 years. The gap we couldn't close has only widened further. Maybe, just maybe, if Corey Bramlet doesn't turn it over 7 times vs. TCU in 2005...maybe the narrative changes. But you've got to start wondering whether that window closed 10 years ago.

[WyoBrandX]

You can bring in any coach you want to Wyoming - oh wait, you can't. The finances don't work out that way. If I was Tom Burman right now, I'd be getting out the pencil and laptop and start going through all the finances of our athletics. They need to come up with another million or so to put into some coaching salaries. And by the end of this season, its pretty obvious that they need to forklift much of the defensive staff out of Laramie.

Seriously - this is an administration failure. You could hire on Urban Meyer and pay him enough money to come here. With what is left, he could go hire on Chris Tormey from some Washington high school and have a defensive coordinator.

I realize we are remote. So is Hawaii. So is Fort Collins. You play with the hand you are delt - and you try to find solutions to your problems. Until we have an administration that says "Yep, this is where we are, it is what it is, lets move on" and "yep, we have a milion little problems here that is turning into one big problem (football program failure), let fix these million lilttle problems one at a time" - we are going to have very intermittent success in football.

I look at it this way. Wyoming Football was in the dumps in 1970. By 1988, it had peaked. It has consistently fell down hill since then - taking a nose dive in the year 2000.

Glenn should have been given a year or two more and should have recieved some of the $$$ that DC did. He probably would have taken it alot further as he was a bit more football oriented. DC was a one trick pony with his spread offense.

Bohl might get us there. He needs some resources too. What a mess.

[WyoBrandX]

This hit hard, but... yeah. I don't think today's or last week's Wyoming team could compete in FCS either, though. Did anybody pay attention to what North Dakota did in their home opener today? They almost lost to Drake.

Drake. The team that struggled with William Jewell in week 1. William Jewell, who got taken behind the shed by Colorado School of Mines today to the tune of 42-7... I could go on.



That said, if Wyoming drops football, I think their other sports (basketball included) will suffer. Maybe the university should just focus on providing the best possible education instead. :-/

I think the AD department needs a good cleansing before we go that far. Get some people in there willing to face some tough challenges. If we still can't do it - well, do what we can with what we got.

[nwpoke]

For God's sake. This is not a mess. This a really young team learning 1)how to compete and 2) learning how to win. Today they learned how to not quit, a lesson that might extend to the fan base.

[WyoBrandX]

Here is one last food for thought. I've been involved with alot of interviews and hirings out in the world over the years. One thing I learned many years ago is that you have to thoroughly try to break through a persons psyche to understand if the are a good fit or not.

Once you get a bad person on your team, they can become a cancer, and it tears right through your organization. With that said, I have to wonder about our AD's ability to hire coaches (I'm not calling out Bohl here by any means.)

For example, how much did TB actually interview DC prior to hiring him? I mean his personality should have been vetted out in the interviewing process - and then realized he was going to be a tough hire. How many fans, donors, did he piss off? He even made AFA's head coach cry.

The fact he has hired on Schroyer and DC makes me wonder if he really does interview these people at all - or if he just flips a coin.