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LanderPoke
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I realize it's a right to protest, but that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Guess we'll agree to disagree.

You paint a bleak picture of our nation which is not based much in reality.
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LanderPoke
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Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:47 pm
Location: Laramie

CowboyNV wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:57 am
LanderPoke wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:37 pm
CowboyNV wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:16 am
LanderPoke wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:56 am
CowboyNV wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:50 pm
LanderPoke wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:33 am
that is all
I'll give you my perspective on this issue for what it's worth. My son in law is a black man. A large, 6'6" 340 lb tattooed black man, who is a respectable member of his community. A hard working kid, who takes really good care of my daughter. He is the adopted son of a white couple - his dad has his PhD in statistics and probability and his mom has her PhD in education. He has his degree in engineering.

I've been with him in a car when he was pulled over for being black on three different occasions. Each time we were pulled from the car at gun point, handcuffed, the car was searched, and finally allowed to leave with a "warning" on the phantom traffic offense. Unless and until you have experienced this, then you really have no idea what people of color are protesting.

It is your personal choice to support or vilify Kap, and you can do so with your wallet or your voice. But don't sit there in your white neighborhood and pretend to know what these folks go through on a daily basis. I was deemed guilty through association and treated like a f##k[#] criminal simply because my son in law was black. Try having some paranoid fat white [#]f##k waving a loaded gun in your face while he is freaking out over....nothing but some guys skin pigment and his art work.

Peaceful protest is a good thing. I'm a child of the 50's and 60's and I lived through the race wars and race riots. A player taking a knee during the anthem is no more disrespectful than the f##k[#] who are down at the concession stand buying their god damned beer and food while the anthem plays. If all of those white folks who are offended by the kneeling, were required to sit in their seats until the anthem was over, you would see attitudes change dramatically.

That's my rant. If you don't like it, fine, it's only my opinion. But don't sit there on your throne all offended by these bastards kneeling in protest because you think you know what it's like in the hood. Unless you are a person of color, or related to one, you have no f##k[#] idea.

:twocents:
There’s a big difference between getting chips during the anthem and purposely disrespecting it when you know millions will be watching on TV. Come on. And the VAST majority do drop what they are doing and show reverence when the anthem is played. the anthem isn’t the right place and time to protest these issues. I never said these issues don’t exist so calm down. Maybe you weren’t talking at me anymore. I don’t know.

When you literally do the opposite of of what’s accepted during the anthem you seem like you hate our country and everything it stands for. Have you been outside of the USA? Our poor and unprivileged live better than the rich in many countries. I would think it’s not too hard to realize this and just stand up and be thankful. Nothing is sacred to anyone anymore. :twocents:

Press conferences are the time and place to educate white people about these issues or whatever
We will just have to agree to disagree on this. I'm 70+ years old and I've been all over the world, so I don't need a geography lesson, nor a lesson in how our poor compare to folks in other countries. And your idea of respect is a hell of a lot different than mine. Beer swilling drunken tailgaters grabbing their nachos during the anthem isn't respect. The head nodding you may notice is them dozing off from the .30% alcohol content in their blood.

The right time to protest issues is any time one has an audience. Like I said, peaceful protest during the anthem doesn't espouse hate for the country. I would think supporting politicians who have no problem with Russian interference in our elections is more traitorous than taking a knee during the anthem. Again, you have your right to your opinion, and I have mine. I choose to support peaceful protests, no matter if I agree with their cause or not. It's the First Amendment, one of the cornerstones of our constitution and democracy. Stifling that is tantamount to sh#t[#] on the constitution, and I call that disrespectful.
They can do what they want and I can call them disingenuous, ungrateful losers for doing it. I guess that's what makes our country great. And Russian interference? really? Get out your tinfoil hat lol
I guess the fact that 17 intelligence agencies that stated Russia not only tried to intervene in the 2016 elections, but is still trying to do it in 2018 means nothing to you because Fox said it wasn't true? :rofl: :rofl: I'll take my information from a trusted source like the FBI or CIA or NSA over FOX, hahahahaha. Tin foil hat my A$$. As I stated before, you are entitled to your own opinion. But you aren't entitled to "alternative" facts.....[#]f##k me runnin'.
You honestly believe that Russia influenced the 2016 election in any substantive way?
CowboyNV
A Real Cowboy
Posts: 1416
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:28 pm
Location: Nevada/Florida

LanderPoke wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:13 pm
CowboyNV wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:57 am
LanderPoke wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:37 pm
CowboyNV wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:16 am
LanderPoke wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:56 am
CowboyNV wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:50 pm
LanderPoke wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:33 am
that is all
I'll give you my perspective on this issue for what it's worth. My son in law is a black man. A large, 6'6" 340 lb tattooed black man, who is a respectable member of his community. A hard working kid, who takes really good care of my daughter. He is the adopted son of a white couple - his dad has his PhD in statistics and probability and his mom has her PhD in education. He has his degree in engineering.

I've been with him in a car when he was pulled over for being black on three different occasions. Each time we were pulled from the car at gun point, handcuffed, the car was searched, and finally allowed to leave with a "warning" on the phantom traffic offense. Unless and until you have experienced this, then you really have no idea what people of color are protesting.

It is your personal choice to support or vilify Kap, and you can do so with your wallet or your voice. But don't sit there in your white neighborhood and pretend to know what these folks go through on a daily basis. I was deemed guilty through association and treated like a f##k[#] criminal simply because my son in law was black. Try having some paranoid fat white [#]f##k waving a loaded gun in your face while he is freaking out over....nothing but some guys skin pigment and his art work.

Peaceful protest is a good thing. I'm a child of the 50's and 60's and I lived through the race wars and race riots. A player taking a knee during the anthem is no more disrespectful than the f##k[#] who are down at the concession stand buying their god damned beer and food while the anthem plays. If all of those white folks who are offended by the kneeling, were required to sit in their seats until the anthem was over, you would see attitudes change dramatically.

That's my rant. If you don't like it, fine, it's only my opinion. But don't sit there on your throne all offended by these bastards kneeling in protest because you think you know what it's like in the hood. Unless you are a person of color, or related to one, you have no f##k[#] idea.

:twocents:
There’s a big difference between getting chips during the anthem and purposely disrespecting it when you know millions will be watching on TV. Come on. And the VAST majority do drop what they are doing and show reverence when the anthem is played. the anthem isn’t the right place and time to protest these issues. I never said these issues don’t exist so calm down. Maybe you weren’t talking at me anymore. I don’t know.

When you literally do the opposite of of what’s accepted during the anthem you seem like you hate our country and everything it stands for. Have you been outside of the USA? Our poor and unprivileged live better than the rich in many countries. I would think it’s not too hard to realize this and just stand up and be thankful. Nothing is sacred to anyone anymore. :twocents:

Press conferences are the time and place to educate white people about these issues or whatever
We will just have to agree to disagree on this. I'm 70+ years old and I've been all over the world, so I don't need a geography lesson, nor a lesson in how our poor compare to folks in other countries. And your idea of respect is a hell of a lot different than mine. Beer swilling drunken tailgaters grabbing their nachos during the anthem isn't respect. The head nodding you may notice is them dozing off from the .30% alcohol content in their blood.

The right time to protest issues is any time one has an audience. Like I said, peaceful protest during the anthem doesn't espouse hate for the country. I would think supporting politicians who have no problem with Russian interference in our elections is more traitorous than taking a knee during the anthem. Again, you have your right to your opinion, and I have mine. I choose to support peaceful protests, no matter if I agree with their cause or not. It's the First Amendment, one of the cornerstones of our constitution and democracy. Stifling that is tantamount to sh#t[#] on the constitution, and I call that disrespectful.
They can do what they want and I can call them disingenuous, ungrateful losers for doing it. I guess that's what makes our country great. And Russian interference? really? Get out your tinfoil hat lol
I guess the fact that 17 intelligence agencies that stated Russia not only tried to intervene in the 2016 elections, but is still trying to do it in 2018 means nothing to you because Fox said it wasn't true? :rofl: :rofl: I'll take my information from a trusted source like the FBI or CIA or NSA over FOX, hahahahaha. Tin foil hat my A$$. As I stated before, you are entitled to your own opinion. But you aren't entitled to "alternative" facts.....[#]f##k me runnin'.
You honestly believe that Russia influenced the 2016 election in any substantive way?
Yes, I do. ALL of the intelligence agencies said that Russia has had and continues to have an adverse affect on not just US elections, but other countries as well. It is a well thought out, well coordinated campaign to plant misinformation in social media, on television, radio, and even at rallies. Even Trump's own appointees, Republicans, like Mike Pompeo who used to be the director of the CIA and is now Secretary of State, and Chris Wray, his new FBI director, have stated that Russia interfered, and continues to be a huge threat to our elections and our democracy. Trump keeps yelling witch hunt, yet there have been 35 indictments or guilty pleas from 32 individuals and 3 Russian companies up to this point in the Mueller investigation. Faux news won't tell you that, but it is something easily found by using an Internet search engine. I believe we will someday find out that Trump was co-opted because in the years leading up to his candidacy, he was beholden to Russian oligarchy because no banks in the US would lend him money.

You can believe whatever you want. If Mueller's team comes out with proof beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump and/or his circle of support colluded with the Russians, chances are good you won't believe it. I am of the opinion you follow the evidence to where it leads. If it shows Trump had nothing to do with it, then I will happily eat crow and apologize to anybody who wants an apology. If it shows Trump willingly colluded and then conspired to keep that from the American public, then I will demand that he be held accountable and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. NOBODY, not even Trump, is above the laws of this land. And if he is found to have conspired with Russia, an enemy of the US, then he is a traitor, and he should be treated as such.
:twocents:
What is the difference between politicians and stoners? Politicians don't inhale...they just suck.
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'PokeForLife
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Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:40 pm

The "a green beret told him to kneel" argument is a subtle way to twist what really happened. It will take a little more good actions coming from Kaepernick to convince me that he had respect in his mind when he started it. He sat on the bench for 3(?) games before the green beret told him that he should at least kneel rather than sit if that is what his mind was set on doing. Respect...... He wore socks depicting cops as pigs. And wore a shirt supporting Castro. There is no subtle way to twist THOSE statements into statements of respect. That shows what is really in his heart.

An as for vets who like it or not (I'm not a vet) -- what I've heard is that they all know that they are fighting to protect someone's right to protest during the national anthem. And that is about where it ends. Many don't like to see it done that way, but will defend it because they have integrity.

Kap is going to have to start doing some real actions to convince me and millions of other people about his intentions. Words are cheap.
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'PokeForLife
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Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:40 pm

Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King? Don't sully their names by comparing what they did to the disgusting act of protesting the flag.
No one is protesting the flag. Not once has that EVER been why the players kneeled.


Kaepernick's own words: "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people"
Sounds exactly like he is protesting the flag.
I know what the rebuttal is. "you are too narrow minded to understand the bigger picture" or some lecture about how I'm racist and contributing to systemic racism and how I'm too dumb to understand the symbolism behind the protest.

I get the bigger picture. I get the symbolism. What I believe is that he should do something more to show that he's genuine rather than claiming that he sacrificed everything. Holy cow how ungrateful can you get? Boy in a different country he really might have ground to stand on. But in this great country he came from some rough beginnings as a kid born to a mom whose jerk boyfriend did the most selfish thing in the world by leaving her and he still was able to become a guy with a net worth of $20 million at this point (https://www.celebritynetworth.com/artic ... aying-nfl/). It feels like if you had a brother who is the only one who inherited millions of dollars from your rich parents and he just spits in their face rather than thanking them for it.

Nobody here believes that he doesn't have the right to do what he's doing or that peaceful protest isn't an indispensable foundation of the country. Just that he should be more grateful and truthful about it by going about it differently.
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ItSucksToBeACSURam
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Posts: 4665
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:53 pm

CowboyNV wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:26 pm
LanderPoke wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:13 pm
CowboyNV wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:57 am
LanderPoke wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:37 pm
CowboyNV wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:16 am
LanderPoke wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:56 am
CowboyNV wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:50 pm
LanderPoke wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:33 am
that is all
I'll give you my perspective on this issue for what it's worth. My son in law is a black man. A large, 6'6" 340 lb tattooed black man, who is a respectable member of his community. A hard working kid, who takes really good care of my daughter. He is the adopted son of a white couple - his dad has his PhD in statistics and probability and his mom has her PhD in education. He has his degree in engineering.

I've been with him in a car when he was pulled over for being black on three different occasions. Each time we were pulled from the car at gun point, handcuffed, the car was searched, and finally allowed to leave with a "warning" on the phantom traffic offense. Unless and until you have experienced this, then you really have no idea what people of color are protesting.

It is your personal choice to support or vilify Kap, and you can do so with your wallet or your voice. But don't sit there in your white neighborhood and pretend to know what these folks go through on a daily basis. I was deemed guilty through association and treated like a f##k[#] criminal simply because my son in law was black. Try having some paranoid fat white [#]f##k waving a loaded gun in your face while he is freaking out over....nothing but some guys skin pigment and his art work.

Peaceful protest is a good thing. I'm a child of the 50's and 60's and I lived through the race wars and race riots. A player taking a knee during the anthem is no more disrespectful than the f##k[#] who are down at the concession stand buying their god damned beer and food while the anthem plays. If all of those white folks who are offended by the kneeling, were required to sit in their seats until the anthem was over, you would see attitudes change dramatically.

That's my rant. If you don't like it, fine, it's only my opinion. But don't sit there on your throne all offended by these bastards kneeling in protest because you think you know what it's like in the hood. Unless you are a person of color, or related to one, you have no f##k[#] idea.

:twocents:
There’s a big difference between getting chips during the anthem and purposely disrespecting it when you know millions will be watching on TV. Come on. And the VAST majority do drop what they are doing and show reverence when the anthem is played. the anthem isn’t the right place and time to protest these issues. I never said these issues don’t exist so calm down. Maybe you weren’t talking at me anymore. I don’t know.

When you literally do the opposite of of what’s accepted during the anthem you seem like you hate our country and everything it stands for. Have you been outside of the USA? Our poor and unprivileged live better than the rich in many countries. I would think it’s not too hard to realize this and just stand up and be thankful. Nothing is sacred to anyone anymore. :twocents:

Press conferences are the time and place to educate white people about these issues or whatever
We will just have to agree to disagree on this. I'm 70+ years old and I've been all over the world, so I don't need a geography lesson, nor a lesson in how our poor compare to folks in other countries. And your idea of respect is a hell of a lot different than mine. Beer swilling drunken tailgaters grabbing their nachos during the anthem isn't respect. The head nodding you may notice is them dozing off from the .30% alcohol content in their blood.

The right time to protest issues is any time one has an audience. Like I said, peaceful protest during the anthem doesn't espouse hate for the country. I would think supporting politicians who have no problem with Russian interference in our elections is more traitorous than taking a knee during the anthem. Again, you have your right to your opinion, and I have mine. I choose to support peaceful protests, no matter if I agree with their cause or not. It's the First Amendment, one of the cornerstones of our constitution and democracy. Stifling that is tantamount to sh#t[#] on the constitution, and I call that disrespectful.
They can do what they want and I can call them disingenuous, ungrateful losers for doing it. I guess that's what makes our country great. And Russian interference? really? Get out your tinfoil hat lol
I guess the fact that 17 intelligence agencies that stated Russia not only tried to intervene in the 2016 elections, but is still trying to do it in 2018 means nothing to you because Fox said it wasn't true? :rofl: :rofl: I'll take my information from a trusted source like the FBI or CIA or NSA over FOX, hahahahaha. Tin foil hat my A$$. As I stated before, you are entitled to your own opinion. But you aren't entitled to "alternative" facts.....[#]f##k me runnin'.
You honestly believe that Russia influenced the 2016 election in any substantive way?
Yes, I do. ALL of the intelligence agencies said that Russia has had and continues to have an adverse affect on not just US elections, but other countries as well. It is a well thought out, well coordinated campaign to plant misinformation in social media, on television, radio, and even at rallies. Even Trump's own appointees, Republicans, like Mike Pompeo who used to be the director of the CIA and is now Secretary of State, and Chris Wray, his new FBI director, have stated that Russia interfered, and continues to be a huge threat to our elections and our democracy. Trump keeps yelling witch hunt, yet there have been 35 indictments or guilty pleas from 32 individuals and 3 Russian companies up to this point in the Mueller investigation. Faux news won't tell you that, but it is something easily found by using an Internet search engine. I believe we will someday find out that Trump was co-opted because in the years leading up to his candidacy, he was beholden to Russian oligarchy because no banks in the US would lend him money.

You can believe whatever you want. If Mueller's team comes out with proof beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump and/or his circle of support colluded with the Russians, chances are good you won't believe it. I am of the opinion you follow the evidence to where it leads. If it shows Trump had nothing to do with it, then I will happily eat crow and apologize to anybody who wants an apology. If it shows Trump willingly colluded and then conspired to keep that from the American public, then I will demand that he be held accountable and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. NOBODY, not even Trump, is above the laws of this land. And if he is found to have conspired with Russia, an enemy of the US, then he is a traitor, and he should be treated as such.
:twocents:
With how hated Trump is, if any of these 17 agencies had a scrap of ACTUAL, TANGIBLE evidence, Trump would have been impeached already. Yes, please do follow the evidence. SO far its leaning towards he didnt collude with the Russians.

By the way, who ordered the Trump Dossier from Russian agents?
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CowboyNV
A Real Cowboy
Posts: 1416
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:28 pm
Location: Nevada/Florida

ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:59 am
CowboyNV wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:26 pm
LanderPoke wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:13 pm
CowboyNV wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:57 am
LanderPoke wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:37 pm
CowboyNV wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:16 am
LanderPoke wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:56 am
CowboyNV wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:50 pm
LanderPoke wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:33 am
that is all
I'll give you my perspective on this issue for what it's worth. My son in law is a black man. A large, 6'6" 340 lb tattooed black man, who is a respectable member of his community. A hard working kid, who takes really good care of my daughter. He is the adopted son of a white couple - his dad has his PhD in statistics and probability and his mom has her PhD in education. He has his degree in engineering.

I've been with him in a car when he was pulled over for being black on three different occasions. Each time we were pulled from the car at gun point, handcuffed, the car was searched, and finally allowed to leave with a "warning" on the phantom traffic offense. Unless and until you have experienced this, then you really have no idea what people of color are protesting.

It is your personal choice to support or vilify Kap, and you can do so with your wallet or your voice. But don't sit there in your white neighborhood and pretend to know what these folks go through on a daily basis. I was deemed guilty through association and treated like a f##k[#] criminal simply because my son in law was black. Try having some paranoid fat white [#]f##k waving a loaded gun in your face while he is freaking out over....nothing but some guys skin pigment and his art work.

Peaceful protest is a good thing. I'm a child of the 50's and 60's and I lived through the race wars and race riots. A player taking a knee during the anthem is no more disrespectful than the f##k[#] who are down at the concession stand buying their god damned beer and food while the anthem plays. If all of those white folks who are offended by the kneeling, were required to sit in their seats until the anthem was over, you would see attitudes change dramatically.

That's my rant. If you don't like it, fine, it's only my opinion. But don't sit there on your throne all offended by these bastards kneeling in protest because you think you know what it's like in the hood. Unless you are a person of color, or related to one, you have no f##k[#] idea.

:twocents:
There’s a big difference between getting chips during the anthem and purposely disrespecting it when you know millions will be watching on TV. Come on. And the VAST majority do drop what they are doing and show reverence when the anthem is played. the anthem isn’t the right place and time to protest these issues. I never said these issues don’t exist so calm down. Maybe you weren’t talking at me anymore. I don’t know.

When you literally do the opposite of of what’s accepted during the anthem you seem like you hate our country and everything it stands for. Have you been outside of the USA? Our poor and unprivileged live better than the rich in many countries. I would think it’s not too hard to realize this and just stand up and be thankful. Nothing is sacred to anyone anymore. :twocents:

Press conferences are the time and place to educate white people about these issues or whatever
We will just have to agree to disagree on this. I'm 70+ years old and I've been all over the world, so I don't need a geography lesson, nor a lesson in how our poor compare to folks in other countries. And your idea of respect is a hell of a lot different than mine. Beer swilling drunken tailgaters grabbing their nachos during the anthem isn't respect. The head nodding you may notice is them dozing off from the .30% alcohol content in their blood.

The right time to protest issues is any time one has an audience. Like I said, peaceful protest during the anthem doesn't espouse hate for the country. I would think supporting politicians who have no problem with Russian interference in our elections is more traitorous than taking a knee during the anthem. Again, you have your right to your opinion, and I have mine. I choose to support peaceful protests, no matter if I agree with their cause or not. It's the First Amendment, one of the cornerstones of our constitution and democracy. Stifling that is tantamount to sh#t[#] on the constitution, and I call that disrespectful.
They can do what they want and I can call them disingenuous, ungrateful losers for doing it. I guess that's what makes our country great. And Russian interference? really? Get out your tinfoil hat lol
I guess the fact that 17 intelligence agencies that stated Russia not only tried to intervene in the 2016 elections, but is still trying to do it in 2018 means nothing to you because Fox said it wasn't true? :rofl: :rofl: I'll take my information from a trusted source like the FBI or CIA or NSA over FOX, hahahahaha. Tin foil hat my A$$. As I stated before, you are entitled to your own opinion. But you aren't entitled to "alternative" facts.....[#]f##k me runnin'.
You honestly believe that Russia influenced the 2016 election in any substantive way?
Yes, I do. ALL of the intelligence agencies said that Russia has had and continues to have an adverse affect on not just US elections, but other countries as well. It is a well thought out, well coordinated campaign to plant misinformation in social media, on television, radio, and even at rallies. Even Trump's own appointees, Republicans, like Mike Pompeo who used to be the director of the CIA and is now Secretary of State, and Chris Wray, his new FBI director, have stated that Russia interfered, and continues to be a huge threat to our elections and our democracy. Trump keeps yelling witch hunt, yet there have been 35 indictments or guilty pleas from 32 individuals and 3 Russian companies up to this point in the Mueller investigation. Faux news won't tell you that, but it is something easily found by using an Internet search engine. I believe we will someday find out that Trump was co-opted because in the years leading up to his candidacy, he was beholden to Russian oligarchy because no banks in the US would lend him money.

You can believe whatever you want. If Mueller's team comes out with proof beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump and/or his circle of support colluded with the Russians, chances are good you won't believe it. I am of the opinion you follow the evidence to where it leads. If it shows Trump had nothing to do with it, then I will happily eat crow and apologize to anybody who wants an apology. If it shows Trump willingly colluded and then conspired to keep that from the American public, then I will demand that he be held accountable and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. NOBODY, not even Trump, is above the laws of this land. And if he is found to have conspired with Russia, an enemy of the US, then he is a traitor, and he should be treated as such.
:twocents:
With how hated Trump is, if any of these 17 agencies had a scrap of ACTUAL, TANGIBLE evidence, Trump would have been impeached already. Yes, please do follow the evidence. SO far its leaning towards he didnt collude with the Russians.

By the way, who ordered the Trump Dossier from Russian agents?
With anything but a Republican controlled House and Senate, your statement would be true. However, you have people like Nunes, Gowdy, and that clan over in the House cock blocking every investigation into wrong doing and McConnell in the Senate posturing to make sure Sh#t doesn't fly under his watch. Today, just now, Manafort took a plea deal and pleaded guilty to several charges and will be a cooperating witness in the Mueller investigation. You are too young to remember, but Watergate took over two years for just the investigation, then longer to impeach. I am happy that these guys are taking their time and getting it right. Hey, as I've said before, if Trump did nothing wrong then I'm thrilled. But if he was complicit in this then he needs to be brought to justice.

As for who started the dossier, Fusion GPS was hired by The Washington Free Beacon, a conservative website, to unearth potentially damaging information about Mr. Trump. The Free Beacon — which was funded by a major donor supporting Mr. Trump’s rival for the party’s nomination, Senator Marco Rubio of Florida — told Fusion GPS to stop doing research on Mr. Trump in May 2016, as Mr. Trump was clinching the Republican nomination. After Mr. Trump secured the nomination, Fusion GPS was hired on behalf of Mrs. Clinton’s campaign and the D.N.C. by their law firm, Perkins Coie, to compile research about Mr. Trump, his businesses and associates — including possible connections with Russia. It was at that point that Fusion GPS hired Mr. Steele, who has deep sourcing in Russia, to gather information. So I guess the answer to your question is Republicans started it and Democrats finished it. Much of what is in that dossier has been born out as truth. There is also a lot that we don't know just yet, only Mueller and his team know that info.

So did Trump collude?? I don't know, I'm not part of the investigation. I am willing to let this play out. If Trump is innocent he has nothing to worry about. If he isn't, then he needs to face his accusers and their evidence and let the law run its course.

Do I think Trump is an effective president? No, I think he is a f##k[#] idiot. He is no better at running the country than he is running a casino. I do think that he is innocent until proven guilty and again, if he has done nothing wrong the evidence will bear that out. It is obvious that many people around him were breaking laws and colluding with Russia and they are now facing the music for their actions. People need to just take a deep breath and have some patience. Let Mueller finish his investigation. I've seen how this worked with Nixon. If left to do their jobs, the truth will be told by Mueller (a lifelong Republican for what it's worth). Just my opinion, which are like assholes, we all have one when it comes to Trump.
What is the difference between politicians and stoners? Politicians don't inhale...they just suck.
User avatar
ItSucksToBeACSURam
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Posts: 4665
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:53 pm

CowboyNV wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:05 am
ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:59 am
CowboyNV wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:26 pm
LanderPoke wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:13 pm
CowboyNV wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:57 am
LanderPoke wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:37 pm
CowboyNV wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:16 am
LanderPoke wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:56 am
CowboyNV wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:50 pm
LanderPoke wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:33 am
that is all
I'll give you my perspective on this issue for what it's worth. My son in law is a black man. A large, 6'6" 340 lb tattooed black man, who is a respectable member of his community. A hard working kid, who takes really good care of my daughter. He is the adopted son of a white couple - his dad has his PhD in statistics and probability and his mom has her PhD in education. He has his degree in engineering.

I've been with him in a car when he was pulled over for being black on three different occasions. Each time we were pulled from the car at gun point, handcuffed, the car was searched, and finally allowed to leave with a "warning" on the phantom traffic offense. Unless and until you have experienced this, then you really have no idea what people of color are protesting.

It is your personal choice to support or vilify Kap, and you can do so with your wallet or your voice. But don't sit there in your white neighborhood and pretend to know what these folks go through on a daily basis. I was deemed guilty through association and treated like a f##k[#] criminal simply because my son in law was black. Try having some paranoid fat white [#]f##k waving a loaded gun in your face while he is freaking out over....nothing but some guys skin pigment and his art work.

Peaceful protest is a good thing. I'm a child of the 50's and 60's and I lived through the race wars and race riots. A player taking a knee during the anthem is no more disrespectful than the f##k[#] who are down at the concession stand buying their god damned beer and food while the anthem plays. If all of those white folks who are offended by the kneeling, were required to sit in their seats until the anthem was over, you would see attitudes change dramatically.

That's my rant. If you don't like it, fine, it's only my opinion. But don't sit there on your throne all offended by these bastards kneeling in protest because you think you know what it's like in the hood. Unless you are a person of color, or related to one, you have no f##k[#] idea.

:twocents:
There’s a big difference between getting chips during the anthem and purposely disrespecting it when you know millions will be watching on TV. Come on. And the VAST majority do drop what they are doing and show reverence when the anthem is played. the anthem isn’t the right place and time to protest these issues. I never said these issues don’t exist so calm down. Maybe you weren’t talking at me anymore. I don’t know.

When you literally do the opposite of of what’s accepted during the anthem you seem like you hate our country and everything it stands for. Have you been outside of the USA? Our poor and unprivileged live better than the rich in many countries. I would think it’s not too hard to realize this and just stand up and be thankful. Nothing is sacred to anyone anymore. :twocents:

Press conferences are the time and place to educate white people about these issues or whatever
We will just have to agree to disagree on this. I'm 70+ years old and I've been all over the world, so I don't need a geography lesson, nor a lesson in how our poor compare to folks in other countries. And your idea of respect is a hell of a lot different than mine. Beer swilling drunken tailgaters grabbing their nachos during the anthem isn't respect. The head nodding you may notice is them dozing off from the .30% alcohol content in their blood.

The right time to protest issues is any time one has an audience. Like I said, peaceful protest during the anthem doesn't espouse hate for the country. I would think supporting politicians who have no problem with Russian interference in our elections is more traitorous than taking a knee during the anthem. Again, you have your right to your opinion, and I have mine. I choose to support peaceful protests, no matter if I agree with their cause or not. It's the First Amendment, one of the cornerstones of our constitution and democracy. Stifling that is tantamount to sh#t[#] on the constitution, and I call that disrespectful.
They can do what they want and I can call them disingenuous, ungrateful losers for doing it. I guess that's what makes our country great. And Russian interference? really? Get out your tinfoil hat lol
I guess the fact that 17 intelligence agencies that stated Russia not only tried to intervene in the 2016 elections, but is still trying to do it in 2018 means nothing to you because Fox said it wasn't true? :rofl: :rofl: I'll take my information from a trusted source like the FBI or CIA or NSA over FOX, hahahahaha. Tin foil hat my A$$. As I stated before, you are entitled to your own opinion. But you aren't entitled to "alternative" facts.....[#]f##k me runnin'.
You honestly believe that Russia influenced the 2016 election in any substantive way?
Yes, I do. ALL of the intelligence agencies said that Russia has had and continues to have an adverse affect on not just US elections, but other countries as well. It is a well thought out, well coordinated campaign to plant misinformation in social media, on television, radio, and even at rallies. Even Trump's own appointees, Republicans, like Mike Pompeo who used to be the director of the CIA and is now Secretary of State, and Chris Wray, his new FBI director, have stated that Russia interfered, and continues to be a huge threat to our elections and our democracy. Trump keeps yelling witch hunt, yet there have been 35 indictments or guilty pleas from 32 individuals and 3 Russian companies up to this point in the Mueller investigation. Faux news won't tell you that, but it is something easily found by using an Internet search engine. I believe we will someday find out that Trump was co-opted because in the years leading up to his candidacy, he was beholden to Russian oligarchy because no banks in the US would lend him money.

You can believe whatever you want. If Mueller's team comes out with proof beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump and/or his circle of support colluded with the Russians, chances are good you won't believe it. I am of the opinion you follow the evidence to where it leads. If it shows Trump had nothing to do with it, then I will happily eat crow and apologize to anybody who wants an apology. If it shows Trump willingly colluded and then conspired to keep that from the American public, then I will demand that he be held accountable and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. NOBODY, not even Trump, is above the laws of this land. And if he is found to have conspired with Russia, an enemy of the US, then he is a traitor, and he should be treated as such.
:twocents:
With how hated Trump is, if any of these 17 agencies had a scrap of ACTUAL, TANGIBLE evidence, Trump would have been impeached already. Yes, please do follow the evidence. SO far its leaning towards he didnt collude with the Russians.

By the way, who ordered the Trump Dossier from Russian agents?
With anything but a Republican controlled House and Senate, your statement would be true. However, you have people like Nunes, Gowdy, and that clan over in the House cock blocking every investigation into wrong doing and McConnell in the Senate posturing to make sure Sh#t doesn't fly under his watch. Today, just now, Manafort took a plea deal and pleaded guilty to several charges and will be a cooperating witness in the Mueller investigation. You are too young to remember, but Watergate took over two years for just the investigation, then longer to impeach. I am happy that these guys are taking their time and getting it right. Hey, as I've said before, if Trump did nothing wrong then I'm thrilled. But if he was complicit in this then he needs to be brought to justice.

As for who started the dossier, Fusion GPS was hired by The Washington Free Beacon, a conservative website, to unearth potentially damaging information about Mr. Trump. The Free Beacon — which was funded by a major donor supporting Mr. Trump’s rival for the party’s nomination, Senator Marco Rubio of Florida — told Fusion GPS to stop doing research on Mr. Trump in May 2016, as Mr. Trump was clinching the Republican nomination. After Mr. Trump secured the nomination, Fusion GPS was hired on behalf of Mrs. Clinton’s campaign and the D.N.C. by their law firm, Perkins Coie, to compile research about Mr. Trump, his businesses and associates — including possible connections with Russia. It was at that point that Fusion GPS hired Mr. Steele, who has deep sourcing in Russia, to gather information. POINT 1 So I guess the answer to your question is Republicans started it and Democrats finished it. Much of what is in that dossier has been born out as truth. There is also a lot that we don't know just yet, only Mueller and his team know that info.

So did Trump collude?? I don't know, I'm not part of the investigation. I am willing to let this play out. If Trump is innocent he has nothing to worry about. If he isn't, then he needs to face his accusers and their evidence and let the law run its course.

POINT 2. Do I think Trump is an effective president? No, I think he is a f##k[#] idiot. He is no better at running the country than he is running a casino.

POINT 3. I do think that he is innocent until proven guilty and again, if he has done nothing wrong the evidence will bear that out.

POINT 4. It is obvious that many people around him were breaking laws and colluding with Russia and they are now facing the music for their actions. People need to just take a deep breath and have some patience. Let Mueller finish his investigation. I've seen how this worked with Nixon. If left to do their jobs, the truth will be told by Mueller (a lifelong Republican for what it's worth). Just my opinion, which are like assholes, we all have one when it comes to Trump.

SO much to unpack here, most of it steaming garbage.

So. Point 1. By your own admission, both parties, colluded with Russia to attack Trump. That is fact. That has been proven. There IS proof SOMEONE colluded with Russia and by your own admission, it wasn't Trump. Good to know you can follow the facts.

Point 2. Your opinion doesn't make any of your statements more factual. In what regards is he not being an effective president? Obama touted that we would never see economic growth of 3% ever again. Its been reported under Trump we just hit 4.1% GPD and 2.9% economic growth over the last 4 quarters. Those are facts. That seems to be pretty effective. Are you referencing the unemployment rate? Well it was nearly 10% under our former president and has been as low as 3.8% under Trump before stabilizing around that 4.1% mark. That seems pretty effective. Unless of course its a bad thing to get a large segment of the workforce active and actually employed. Hourly wages have increased almost 2.7% this year. Look, I get that there a lot of factors at play that could be affecting these in a short term fashion moreso than long term but to say he's being ineffective shows more about your personal bias than anything factual.

You don't have to like him, thats fine. I'm not sure where I stand on Trump yet either. But you can still respect him as holding the highest office in the land. He is not a "f##k[#] idiot". "f##k[#] Idiots" don't ascend to the levels he has in his life (or the levels Obama has in his life) being a "f##k[#] Idiot". Yes he speaks different than most politicians, he isn't a polished speaker. But he is speaking truth to his words and the vast majority of our country appreciates his honesty, his brashness, and his willingness to call a spade a spade. We spent 8 years having a phenomenal orator in the white house that did very little of significance for the average American. On paper, Trump offers a change that middle America desires.

Point 3. At what point are you willing to concede this? The Democrats and the MSM seem destined to drag his name through the mud at any and every opportunity yet have been able to get NOTHING to stick. At this rate we will spend the remainder of his presidency embroiled in the "flavor of the month" outrage only to bounce to the next as each and every one come back to be completely false if not outright lies. It's easy to say, "Oh yeah, I'll eat a whole bunch of crow when he's proven innocent" when its obvious he will never be proven innocent in the court of public opinion, they'll never come forward and say, "oops, we really missed the boat on that. He actually is a good guy." or whatever you think you'll hear that suffices your "innocence" claim. This thought doesn't make you open minded or "woke", it makes you a hypocrite. You're saying you'll give him his due when fits into your little box all the while knowing you'll never have to.

EDIT:

Point 4. This is sh#t[#] justification for attacking Trump. You say you just go where the evidence leads and that if he's proven innocent blah blah blah... You flat out admitted that The Republican Party (Rubio) and the Democratic Party (Clinton) colluded to gather information and dirt against Trump yet you scream and stamp your feet that Trump and his people need brought to justice and to face the music yet don't say Sh#t about these two? That too makes you a complete hypocrite.
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CowboyNV
A Real Cowboy
Posts: 1416
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:28 pm
Location: Nevada/Florida

ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:54 am
CowboyNV wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:05 am
ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:59 am
CowboyNV wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:26 pm
LanderPoke wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:13 pm
CowboyNV wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:57 am
LanderPoke wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:37 pm
CowboyNV wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:16 am
LanderPoke wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:56 am
CowboyNV wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:50 pm
LanderPoke wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:33 am
that is all
I'll give you my perspective on this issue for what it's worth. My son in law is a black man. A large, 6'6" 340 lb tattooed black man, who is a respectable member of his community. A hard working kid, who takes really good care of my daughter. He is the adopted son of a white couple - his dad has his PhD in statistics and probability and his mom has her PhD in education. He has his degree in engineering.

I've been with him in a car when he was pulled over for being black on three different occasions. Each time we were pulled from the car at gun point, handcuffed, the car was searched, and finally allowed to leave with a "warning" on the phantom traffic offense. Unless and until you have experienced this, then you really have no idea what people of color are protesting.

It is your personal choice to support or vilify Kap, and you can do so with your wallet or your voice. But don't sit there in your white neighborhood and pretend to know what these folks go through on a daily basis. I was deemed guilty through association and treated like a f##k[#] criminal simply because my son in law was black. Try having some paranoid fat white [#]f##k waving a loaded gun in your face while he is freaking out over....nothing but some guys skin pigment and his art work.

Peaceful protest is a good thing. I'm a child of the 50's and 60's and I lived through the race wars and race riots. A player taking a knee during the anthem is no more disrespectful than the f##k[#] who are down at the concession stand buying their god damned beer and food while the anthem plays. If all of those white folks who are offended by the kneeling, were required to sit in their seats until the anthem was over, you would see attitudes change dramatically.

That's my rant. If you don't like it, fine, it's only my opinion. But don't sit there on your throne all offended by these bastards kneeling in protest because you think you know what it's like in the hood. Unless you are a person of color, or related to one, you have no f##k[#] idea.

:twocents:
There’s a big difference between getting chips during the anthem and purposely disrespecting it when you know millions will be watching on TV. Come on. And the VAST majority do drop what they are doing and show reverence when the anthem is played. the anthem isn’t the right place and time to protest these issues. I never said these issues don’t exist so calm down. Maybe you weren’t talking at me anymore. I don’t know.

When you literally do the opposite of of what’s accepted during the anthem you seem like you hate our country and everything it stands for. Have you been outside of the USA? Our poor and unprivileged live better than the rich in many countries. I would think it’s not too hard to realize this and just stand up and be thankful. Nothing is sacred to anyone anymore. :twocents:

Press conferences are the time and place to educate white people about these issues or whatever
We will just have to agree to disagree on this. I'm 70+ years old and I've been all over the world, so I don't need a geography lesson, nor a lesson in how our poor compare to folks in other countries. And your idea of respect is a hell of a lot different than mine. Beer swilling drunken tailgaters grabbing their nachos during the anthem isn't respect. The head nodding you may notice is them dozing off from the .30% alcohol content in their blood.

The right time to protest issues is any time one has an audience. Like I said, peaceful protest during the anthem doesn't espouse hate for the country. I would think supporting politicians who have no problem with Russian interference in our elections is more traitorous than taking a knee during the anthem. Again, you have your right to your opinion, and I have mine. I choose to support peaceful protests, no matter if I agree with their cause or not. It's the First Amendment, one of the cornerstones of our constitution and democracy. Stifling that is tantamount to sh#t[#] on the constitution, and I call that disrespectful.
They can do what they want and I can call them disingenuous, ungrateful losers for doing it. I guess that's what makes our country great. And Russian interference? really? Get out your tinfoil hat lol
I guess the fact that 17 intelligence agencies that stated Russia not only tried to intervene in the 2016 elections, but is still trying to do it in 2018 means nothing to you because Fox said it wasn't true? :rofl: :rofl: I'll take my information from a trusted source like the FBI or CIA or NSA over FOX, hahahahaha. Tin foil hat my A$$. As I stated before, you are entitled to your own opinion. But you aren't entitled to "alternative" facts.....[#]f##k me runnin'.
You honestly believe that Russia influenced the 2016 election in any substantive way?
Yes, I do. ALL of the intelligence agencies said that Russia has had and continues to have an adverse affect on not just US elections, but other countries as well. It is a well thought out, well coordinated campaign to plant misinformation in social media, on television, radio, and even at rallies. Even Trump's own appointees, Republicans, like Mike Pompeo who used to be the director of the CIA and is now Secretary of State, and Chris Wray, his new FBI director, have stated that Russia interfered, and continues to be a huge threat to our elections and our democracy. Trump keeps yelling witch hunt, yet there have been 35 indictments or guilty pleas from 32 individuals and 3 Russian companies up to this point in the Mueller investigation. Faux news won't tell you that, but it is something easily found by using an Internet search engine. I believe we will someday find out that Trump was co-opted because in the years leading up to his candidacy, he was beholden to Russian oligarchy because no banks in the US would lend him money.

You can believe whatever you want. If Mueller's team comes out with proof beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump and/or his circle of support colluded with the Russians, chances are good you won't believe it. I am of the opinion you follow the evidence to where it leads. If it shows Trump had nothing to do with it, then I will happily eat crow and apologize to anybody who wants an apology. If it shows Trump willingly colluded and then conspired to keep that from the American public, then I will demand that he be held accountable and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. NOBODY, not even Trump, is above the laws of this land. And if he is found to have conspired with Russia, an enemy of the US, then he is a traitor, and he should be treated as such.
:twocents:
With how hated Trump is, if any of these 17 agencies had a scrap of ACTUAL, TANGIBLE evidence, Trump would have been impeached already. Yes, please do follow the evidence. SO far its leaning towards he didnt collude with the Russians.

By the way, who ordered the Trump Dossier from Russian agents?
With anything but a Republican controlled House and Senate, your statement would be true. However, you have people like Nunes, Gowdy, and that clan over in the House cock blocking every investigation into wrong doing and McConnell in the Senate posturing to make sure Sh#t doesn't fly under his watch. Today, just now, Manafort took a plea deal and pleaded guilty to several charges and will be a cooperating witness in the Mueller investigation. You are too young to remember, but Watergate took over two years for just the investigation, then longer to impeach. I am happy that these guys are taking their time and getting it right. Hey, as I've said before, if Trump did nothing wrong then I'm thrilled. But if he was complicit in this then he needs to be brought to justice.

As for who started the dossier, Fusion GPS was hired by The Washington Free Beacon, a conservative website, to unearth potentially damaging information about Mr. Trump. The Free Beacon — which was funded by a major donor supporting Mr. Trump’s rival for the party’s nomination, Senator Marco Rubio of Florida — told Fusion GPS to stop doing research on Mr. Trump in May 2016, as Mr. Trump was clinching the Republican nomination. After Mr. Trump secured the nomination, Fusion GPS was hired on behalf of Mrs. Clinton’s campaign and the D.N.C. by their law firm, Perkins Coie, to compile research about Mr. Trump, his businesses and associates — including possible connections with Russia. It was at that point that Fusion GPS hired Mr. Steele, who has deep sourcing in Russia, to gather information. POINT 1 So I guess the answer to your question is Republicans started it and Democrats finished it. Much of what is in that dossier has been born out as truth. There is also a lot that we don't know just yet, only Mueller and his team know that info.

So did Trump collude?? I don't know, I'm not part of the investigation. I am willing to let this play out. If Trump is innocent he has nothing to worry about. If he isn't, then he needs to face his accusers and their evidence and let the law run its course.

POINT 2. Do I think Trump is an effective president? No, I think he is a f##k[#] idiot. He is no better at running the country than he is running a casino.

POINT 3. I do think that he is innocent until proven guilty and again, if he has done nothing wrong the evidence will bear that out.

POINT 4. It is obvious that many people around him were breaking laws and colluding with Russia and they are now facing the music for their actions. People need to just take a deep breath and have some patience. Let Mueller finish his investigation. I've seen how this worked with Nixon. If left to do their jobs, the truth will be told by Mueller (a lifelong Republican for what it's worth). Just my opinion, which are like assholes, we all have one when it comes to Trump.

SO much to unpack here, most of it steaming garbage.

So. Point 1. By your own admission, both parties, colluded with Russia to attack Trump. That is fact. That has been proven. There IS proof SOMEONE colluded with Russia and by your own admission, it wasn't Trump. Good to know you can follow the facts.

Point 2. Your opinion doesn't make any of your statements more factual. In what regards is he not being an effective president? Obama touted that we would never see economic growth of 3% ever again. Its been reported under Trump we just hit 4.1% GPD and 2.9% economic growth over the last 4 quarters. Those are facts. That seems to be pretty effective. Are you referencing the unemployment rate? Well it was nearly 10% under our former president and has been as low as 3.8% under Trump before stabilizing around that 4.1% mark. That seems pretty effective. Unless of course its a bad thing to get a large segment of the workforce active and actually employed. Hourly wages have increased almost 2.7% this year. Look, I get that there a lot of factors at play that could be affecting these in a short term fashion moreso than long term but to say he's being ineffective shows more about your personal bias than anything factual.

You don't have to like him, thats fine. I'm not sure where I stand on Trump yet either. But you can still respect him as holding the highest office in the land. He is not a "f##k[#] idiot". "f##k[#] Idiots" don't ascend to the levels he has in his life (or the levels Obama has in his life) being a "f##k[#] Idiot". Yes he speaks different than most politicians, he isn't a polished speaker. But he is speaking truth to his words and the vast majority of our country appreciates his honesty, his brashness, and his willingness to call a spade a spade. We spent 8 years having a phenomenal orator in the white house that did very little of significance for the average American. On paper, Trump offers a change that middle America desires.

Point 3. At what point are you willing to concede this? The Democrats and the MSM seem destined to drag his name through the mud at any and every opportunity yet have been able to get NOTHING to stick. At this rate we will spend the remainder of his presidency embroiled in the "flavor of the month" outrage only to bounce to the next as each and every one come back to be completely false if not outright lies. It's easy to say, "Oh yeah, I'll eat a whole bunch of crow when he's proven innocent" when its obvious he will never be proven innocent in the court of public opinion, they'll never come forward and say, "oops, we really missed the boat on that. He actually is a good guy." or whatever you think you'll hear that suffices your "innocence" claim. This thought doesn't make you open minded or "woke", it makes you a hypocrite. You're saying you'll give him his due when fits into your little box all the while knowing you'll never have to.

EDIT:

Point 4. This is sh#t[#] justification for attacking Trump. You say you just go where the evidence leads and that if he's proven innocent blah blah blah... You flat out admitted that The Republican Party (Rubio) and the Democratic Party (Clinton) colluded to gather information and dirt against Trump yet you scream and stamp your feet that Trump and his people need brought to justice and to face the music yet don't say Sh#t about these two? That too makes you a complete hypocrite.
Look, you are one of the Trump voters who will never find any fault with Trump. And you need to take a reading comprehension class. Rubio and Clinton did not collude with Russia. They both paid an ex British spy to research Trump, and that research revealed collusion by folks around Trump with Russians. Opposition research has been going on for decades. If you want it to be illegal, then write your congressman/congresswoman a letter and tell them so. The problem with Russian intervention is that a FOREIGN COUNTRY was doing illegal things to get this info on Clinton. Russia wanted Trump elected, not Clinton. Why in the [#]f##k would she pay Russians to steal her emails and expose them to the world? Nixon pulled the same Sh#t stealing documents from Democrats and then covering up the theft. The theft of electronic records/emails/texts is the same thing Nixon did. Sorry, it just is. I have said it before and I'll say it again, Trump is innocent until proven guilty, but his people ARE being proven guilty and that's why they are going to jail. Cool how that works, isn't it?

If you were here in front of me, I would ask if I could buy you a beer, we could talk about the Cowboys and then go our separate ways. We are polar opposites. I don't like Trump. You don't like Obama. I didn't like Obama. I didn't like Bush. [#]f##k, I haven't seen an honest president since Truman. If you read my little signature sign off on here you will see where I stand on all politicians, including your fearless leader. They all collectively f##k[#] suck. But, Trump could [#]f##k up a cannonball and this economy will implode when all of his disastrous trade policies and tariffs come home to roost. Anyway, cheers to you and cheers to Wyoming, something we can actually agree on. I love a good debate almost as much as a Wyoming win. I wish you and all Trump supporters the best of luck as well as all of the Democrats and Independents and anybody who is a citizen of this great country. Our public discourse is what sets us apart from other nations. Salute!!
What is the difference between politicians and stoners? Politicians don't inhale...they just suck.
User avatar
ItSucksToBeACSURam
WyoNation Addict
Posts: 4665
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:53 pm

CowboyNV wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:34 pm
ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:54 am
CowboyNV wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:05 am
ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:59 am
CowboyNV wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:26 pm
LanderPoke wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:13 pm
CowboyNV wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:57 am
LanderPoke wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:37 pm
CowboyNV wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:16 am
LanderPoke wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:56 am
CowboyNV wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:50 pm
LanderPoke wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:33 am
that is all
I'll give you my perspective on this issue for what it's worth. My son in law is a black man. A large, 6'6" 340 lb tattooed black man, who is a respectable member of his community. A hard working kid, who takes really good care of my daughter. He is the adopted son of a white couple - his dad has his PhD in statistics and probability and his mom has her PhD in education. He has his degree in engineering.

I've been with him in a car when he was pulled over for being black on three different occasions. Each time we were pulled from the car at gun point, handcuffed, the car was searched, and finally allowed to leave with a "warning" on the phantom traffic offense. Unless and until you have experienced this, then you really have no idea what people of color are protesting.

It is your personal choice to support or vilify Kap, and you can do so with your wallet or your voice. But don't sit there in your white neighborhood and pretend to know what these folks go through on a daily basis. I was deemed guilty through association and treated like a f##k[#] criminal simply because my son in law was black. Try having some paranoid fat white [#]f##k waving a loaded gun in your face while he is freaking out over....nothing but some guys skin pigment and his art work.

Peaceful protest is a good thing. I'm a child of the 50's and 60's and I lived through the race wars and race riots. A player taking a knee during the anthem is no more disrespectful than the f##k[#] who are down at the concession stand buying their god damned beer and food while the anthem plays. If all of those white folks who are offended by the kneeling, were required to sit in their seats until the anthem was over, you would see attitudes change dramatically.

That's my rant. If you don't like it, fine, it's only my opinion. But don't sit there on your throne all offended by these bastards kneeling in protest because you think you know what it's like in the hood. Unless you are a person of color, or related to one, you have no f##k[#] idea.

:twocents:
There’s a big difference between getting chips during the anthem and purposely disrespecting it when you know millions will be watching on TV. Come on. And the VAST majority do drop what they are doing and show reverence when the anthem is played. the anthem isn’t the right place and time to protest these issues. I never said these issues don’t exist so calm down. Maybe you weren’t talking at me anymore. I don’t know.

When you literally do the opposite of of what’s accepted during the anthem you seem like you hate our country and everything it stands for. Have you been outside of the USA? Our poor and unprivileged live better than the rich in many countries. I would think it’s not too hard to realize this and just stand up and be thankful. Nothing is sacred to anyone anymore. :twocents:

Press conferences are the time and place to educate white people about these issues or whatever
We will just have to agree to disagree on this. I'm 70+ years old and I've been all over the world, so I don't need a geography lesson, nor a lesson in how our poor compare to folks in other countries. And your idea of respect is a hell of a lot different than mine. Beer swilling drunken tailgaters grabbing their nachos during the anthem isn't respect. The head nodding you may notice is them dozing off from the .30% alcohol content in their blood.

The right time to protest issues is any time one has an audience. Like I said, peaceful protest during the anthem doesn't espouse hate for the country. I would think supporting politicians who have no problem with Russian interference in our elections is more traitorous than taking a knee during the anthem. Again, you have your right to your opinion, and I have mine. I choose to support peaceful protests, no matter if I agree with their cause or not. It's the First Amendment, one of the cornerstones of our constitution and democracy. Stifling that is tantamount to sh#t[#] on the constitution, and I call that disrespectful.
They can do what they want and I can call them disingenuous, ungrateful losers for doing it. I guess that's what makes our country great. And Russian interference? really? Get out your tinfoil hat lol
I guess the fact that 17 intelligence agencies that stated Russia not only tried to intervene in the 2016 elections, but is still trying to do it in 2018 means nothing to you because Fox said it wasn't true? :rofl: :rofl: I'll take my information from a trusted source like the FBI or CIA or NSA over FOX, hahahahaha. Tin foil hat my A$$. As I stated before, you are entitled to your own opinion. But you aren't entitled to "alternative" facts.....[#]f##k me runnin'.
You honestly believe that Russia influenced the 2016 election in any substantive way?
Yes, I do. ALL of the intelligence agencies said that Russia has had and continues to have an adverse affect on not just US elections, but other countries as well. It is a well thought out, well coordinated campaign to plant misinformation in social media, on television, radio, and even at rallies. Even Trump's own appointees, Republicans, like Mike Pompeo who used to be the director of the CIA and is now Secretary of State, and Chris Wray, his new FBI director, have stated that Russia interfered, and continues to be a huge threat to our elections and our democracy. Trump keeps yelling witch hunt, yet there have been 35 indictments or guilty pleas from 32 individuals and 3 Russian companies up to this point in the Mueller investigation. Faux news won't tell you that, but it is something easily found by using an Internet search engine. I believe we will someday find out that Trump was co-opted because in the years leading up to his candidacy, he was beholden to Russian oligarchy because no banks in the US would lend him money.

You can believe whatever you want. If Mueller's team comes out with proof beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump and/or his circle of support colluded with the Russians, chances are good you won't believe it. I am of the opinion you follow the evidence to where it leads. If it shows Trump had nothing to do with it, then I will happily eat crow and apologize to anybody who wants an apology. If it shows Trump willingly colluded and then conspired to keep that from the American public, then I will demand that he be held accountable and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. NOBODY, not even Trump, is above the laws of this land. And if he is found to have conspired with Russia, an enemy of the US, then he is a traitor, and he should be treated as such.
:twocents:
With how hated Trump is, if any of these 17 agencies had a scrap of ACTUAL, TANGIBLE evidence, Trump would have been impeached already. Yes, please do follow the evidence. SO far its leaning towards he didnt collude with the Russians.

By the way, who ordered the Trump Dossier from Russian agents?
With anything but a Republican controlled House and Senate, your statement would be true. However, you have people like Nunes, Gowdy, and that clan over in the House cock blocking every investigation into wrong doing and McConnell in the Senate posturing to make sure Sh#t doesn't fly under his watch. Today, just now, Manafort took a plea deal and pleaded guilty to several charges and will be a cooperating witness in the Mueller investigation. You are too young to remember, but Watergate took over two years for just the investigation, then longer to impeach. I am happy that these guys are taking their time and getting it right. Hey, as I've said before, if Trump did nothing wrong then I'm thrilled. But if he was complicit in this then he needs to be brought to justice.

As for who started the dossier, Fusion GPS was hired by The Washington Free Beacon, a conservative website, to unearth potentially damaging information about Mr. Trump. The Free Beacon — which was funded by a major donor supporting Mr. Trump’s rival for the party’s nomination, Senator Marco Rubio of Florida — told Fusion GPS to stop doing research on Mr. Trump in May 2016, as Mr. Trump was clinching the Republican nomination. After Mr. Trump secured the nomination, Fusion GPS was hired on behalf of Mrs. Clinton’s campaign and the D.N.C. by their law firm, Perkins Coie, to compile research about Mr. Trump, his businesses and associates — including possible connections with Russia. It was at that point that Fusion GPS hired Mr. Steele, who has deep sourcing in Russia, to gather information. POINT 1 So I guess the answer to your question is Republicans started it and Democrats finished it. Much of what is in that dossier has been born out as truth. There is also a lot that we don't know just yet, only Mueller and his team know that info.

So did Trump collude?? I don't know, I'm not part of the investigation. I am willing to let this play out. If Trump is innocent he has nothing to worry about. If he isn't, then he needs to face his accusers and their evidence and let the law run its course.

POINT 2. Do I think Trump is an effective president? No, I think he is a f##k[#] idiot. He is no better at running the country than he is running a casino.

POINT 3. I do think that he is innocent until proven guilty and again, if he has done nothing wrong the evidence will bear that out.

POINT 4. It is obvious that many people around him were breaking laws and colluding with Russia and they are now facing the music for their actions. People need to just take a deep breath and have some patience. Let Mueller finish his investigation. I've seen how this worked with Nixon. If left to do their jobs, the truth will be told by Mueller (a lifelong Republican for what it's worth). Just my opinion, which are like assholes, we all have one when it comes to Trump.

SO much to unpack here, most of it steaming garbage.

So. Point 1. By your own admission, both parties, colluded with Russia to attack Trump. That is fact. That has been proven. There IS proof SOMEONE colluded with Russia and by your own admission, it wasn't Trump. Good to know you can follow the facts.

Point 2. Your opinion doesn't make any of your statements more factual. In what regards is he not being an effective president? Obama touted that we would never see economic growth of 3% ever again. Its been reported under Trump we just hit 4.1% GPD and 2.9% economic growth over the last 4 quarters. Those are facts. That seems to be pretty effective. Are you referencing the unemployment rate? Well it was nearly 10% under our former president and has been as low as 3.8% under Trump before stabilizing around that 4.1% mark. That seems pretty effective. Unless of course its a bad thing to get a large segment of the workforce active and actually employed. Hourly wages have increased almost 2.7% this year. Look, I get that there a lot of factors at play that could be affecting these in a short term fashion moreso than long term but to say he's being ineffective shows more about your personal bias than anything factual.

You don't have to like him, thats fine. I'm not sure where I stand on Trump yet either. But you can still respect him as holding the highest office in the land. He is not a "f##k[#] idiot". "f##k[#] Idiots" don't ascend to the levels he has in his life (or the levels Obama has in his life) being a "f##k[#] Idiot". Yes he speaks different than most politicians, he isn't a polished speaker. But he is speaking truth to his words and the vast majority of our country appreciates his honesty, his brashness, and his willingness to call a spade a spade. We spent 8 years having a phenomenal orator in the white house that did very little of significance for the average American. On paper, Trump offers a change that middle America desires.

Point 3. At what point are you willing to concede this? The Democrats and the MSM seem destined to drag his name through the mud at any and every opportunity yet have been able to get NOTHING to stick. At this rate we will spend the remainder of his presidency embroiled in the "flavor of the month" outrage only to bounce to the next as each and every one come back to be completely false if not outright lies. It's easy to say, "Oh yeah, I'll eat a whole bunch of crow when he's proven innocent" when its obvious he will never be proven innocent in the court of public opinion, they'll never come forward and say, "oops, we really missed the boat on that. He actually is a good guy." or whatever you think you'll hear that suffices your "innocence" claim. This thought doesn't make you open minded or "woke", it makes you a hypocrite. You're saying you'll give him his due when fits into your little box all the while knowing you'll never have to.

EDIT:

Point 4. This is sh#t[#] justification for attacking Trump. You say you just go where the evidence leads and that if he's proven innocent blah blah blah... You flat out admitted that The Republican Party (Rubio) and the Democratic Party (Clinton) colluded to gather information and dirt against Trump yet you scream and stamp your feet that Trump and his people need brought to justice and to face the music yet don't say Sh#t about these two? That too makes you a complete hypocrite.
Look, you are one of the Trump voters who will never find any fault with Trump. And you need to take a reading comprehension class. Rubio and Clinton did not collude with Russia. They both paid an ex British spy to research Trump, and that research revealed collusion by folks around Trump with Russians. Opposition research has been going on for decades. If you want it to be illegal, then write your congressman/congresswoman a letter and tell them so. The problem with Russian intervention is that a FOREIGN COUNTRY was doing illegal things to get this info on Clinton. Russia wanted Trump elected, not Clinton. Why in the [#]f##k would she pay Russians to steal her emails and expose them to the world? Nixon pulled the same Sh#t stealing documents from Democrats and then covering up the theft. The theft of electronic records/emails/texts is the same thing Nixon did. Sorry, it just is. I have said it before and I'll say it again, Trump is innocent until proven guilty, but his people ARE being proven guilty and that's why they are going to jail. Cool how that works, isn't it?

If you were here in front of me, I would ask if I could buy you a beer, we could talk about the Cowboys and then go our separate ways. We are polar opposites. I don't like Trump. You don't like Obama. I didn't like Obama. I didn't like Bush. [#]f##k, I haven't seen an honest president since Truman. If you read my little signature sign off on here you will see where I stand on all politicians, including your fearless leader. They all collectively f##k[#] suck. But, Trump could [#]f##k up a cannonball and this economy will implode when all of his disastrous trade policies and tariffs come home to roost. Anyway, cheers to you and cheers to Wyoming, something we can actually agree on. I love a good debate almost as much as a Wyoming win. I wish you and all Trump supporters the best of luck as well as all of the Democrats and Independents and anybody who is a citizen of this great country. Our public discourse is what sets us apart from other nations. Salute!!
Did you even read my responses you crotchety old [#]f##k? Where did it say that I voted for Trump or even support him? I can open my eyes and see facts without it meaning I support him or that I voted for him.

Typical liberal, after approached with ACTUAL discourse resort to name calling and tantrum throwing.

Sweet bro.

GO Pokes.

EDIT: that innocent British spy you speak of actually has ties and contacts (with whom he gathered the info in the dossier) currently serving in the Kremlin. If that’s not colluding with Russian officials I’m not sure what is.
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LanderPoke
Bronco-Buster
Posts: 7304
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:47 pm
Location: Laramie

'PokeForLife wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:31 pm
Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King? Don't sully their names by comparing what they did to the disgusting act of protesting the flag.
No one is protesting the flag. Not once has that EVER been why the players kneeled.


Kaepernick's own words: "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people"
Sounds exactly like he is protesting the flag.
I know what the rebuttal is. "you are too narrow minded to understand the bigger picture" or some lecture about how I'm racist and contributing to systemic racism and how I'm too dumb to understand the symbolism behind the protest.

I get the bigger picture. I get the symbolism. What I believe is that he should do something more to show that he's genuine rather than claiming that he sacrificed everything. Holy cow how ungrateful can you get? Boy in a different country he really might have ground to stand on. But in this great country he came from some rough beginnings as a kid born to a mom whose jerk boyfriend did the most selfish thing in the world by leaving her and he still was able to become a guy with a net worth of $20 million at this point (https://www.celebritynetworth.com/artic ... aying-nfl/). It feels like if you had a brother who is the only one who inherited millions of dollars from your rich parents and he just spits in their face rather than thanking them for it.

Nobody here believes that he doesn't have the right to do what he's doing or that peaceful protest isn't an indispensable foundation of the country. Just that he should be more grateful and truthful about it by going about it differently.
I know, right? What a phony. Shame on Nike for money grubbing.

Standing for the anthem is binary. You either stand and salute our country or you protest it and disgrace it. It's amazing how some things get twisted. it's sick
CowboyNV
A Real Cowboy
Posts: 1416
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:28 pm
Location: Nevada/Florida

ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:46 pm
CowboyNV wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:34 pm
ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:54 am
CowboyNV wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:05 am
ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:59 am
CowboyNV wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:26 pm
LanderPoke wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:13 pm
CowboyNV wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:57 am
LanderPoke wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:37 pm
CowboyNV wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:16 am
LanderPoke wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:56 am
CowboyNV wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:50 pm
LanderPoke wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:33 am
that is all
I'll give you my perspective on this issue for what it's worth. My son in law is a black man. A large, 6'6" 340 lb tattooed black man, who is a respectable member of his community. A hard working kid, who takes really good care of my daughter. He is the adopted son of a white couple - his dad has his PhD in statistics and probability and his mom has her PhD in education. He has his degree in engineering.

I've been with him in a car when he was pulled over for being black on three different occasions. Each time we were pulled from the car at gun point, handcuffed, the car was searched, and finally allowed to leave with a "warning" on the phantom traffic offense. Unless and until you have experienced this, then you really have no idea what people of color are protesting.

It is your personal choice to support or vilify Kap, and you can do so with your wallet or your voice. But don't sit there in your white neighborhood and pretend to know what these folks go through on a daily basis. I was deemed guilty through association and treated like a f##k[#] criminal simply because my son in law was black. Try having some paranoid fat white [#]f##k waving a loaded gun in your face while he is freaking out over....nothing but some guys skin pigment and his art work.

Peaceful protest is a good thing. I'm a child of the 50's and 60's and I lived through the race wars and race riots. A player taking a knee during the anthem is no more disrespectful than the f##k[#] who are down at the concession stand buying their god damned beer and food while the anthem plays. If all of those white folks who are offended by the kneeling, were required to sit in their seats until the anthem was over, you would see attitudes change dramatically.

That's my rant. If you don't like it, fine, it's only my opinion. But don't sit there on your throne all offended by these bastards kneeling in protest because you think you know what it's like in the hood. Unless you are a person of color, or related to one, you have no f##k[#] idea.

:twocents:
There’s a big difference between getting chips during the anthem and purposely disrespecting it when you know millions will be watching on TV. Come on. And the VAST majority do drop what they are doing and show reverence when the anthem is played. the anthem isn’t the right place and time to protest these issues. I never said these issues don’t exist so calm down. Maybe you weren’t talking at me anymore. I don’t know.

When you literally do the opposite of of what’s accepted during the anthem you seem like you hate our country and everything it stands for. Have you been outside of the USA? Our poor and unprivileged live better than the rich in many countries. I would think it’s not too hard to realize this and just stand up and be thankful. Nothing is sacred to anyone anymore. :twocents:

Press conferences are the time and place to educate white people about these issues or whatever
We will just have to agree to disagree on this. I'm 70+ years old and I've been all over the world, so I don't need a geography lesson, nor a lesson in how our poor compare to folks in other countries. And your idea of respect is a hell of a lot different than mine. Beer swilling drunken tailgaters grabbing their nachos during the anthem isn't respect. The head nodding you may notice is them dozing off from the .30% alcohol content in their blood.

The right time to protest issues is any time one has an audience. Like I said, peaceful protest during the anthem doesn't espouse hate for the country. I would think supporting politicians who have no problem with Russian interference in our elections is more traitorous than taking a knee during the anthem. Again, you have your right to your opinion, and I have mine. I choose to support peaceful protests, no matter if I agree with their cause or not. It's the First Amendment, one of the cornerstones of our constitution and democracy. Stifling that is tantamount to sh#t[#] on the constitution, and I call that disrespectful.
They can do what they want and I can call them disingenuous, ungrateful losers for doing it. I guess that's what makes our country great. And Russian interference? really? Get out your tinfoil hat lol
I guess the fact that 17 intelligence agencies that stated Russia not only tried to intervene in the 2016 elections, but is still trying to do it in 2018 means nothing to you because Fox said it wasn't true? :rofl: :rofl: I'll take my information from a trusted source like the FBI or CIA or NSA over FOX, hahahahaha. Tin foil hat my A$$. As I stated before, you are entitled to your own opinion. But you aren't entitled to "alternative" facts.....[#]f##k me runnin'.
You honestly believe that Russia influenced the 2016 election in any substantive way?
Yes, I do. ALL of the intelligence agencies said that Russia has had and continues to have an adverse affect on not just US elections, but other countries as well. It is a well thought out, well coordinated campaign to plant misinformation in social media, on television, radio, and even at rallies. Even Trump's own appointees, Republicans, like Mike Pompeo who used to be the director of the CIA and is now Secretary of State, and Chris Wray, his new FBI director, have stated that Russia interfered, and continues to be a huge threat to our elections and our democracy. Trump keeps yelling witch hunt, yet there have been 35 indictments or guilty pleas from 32 individuals and 3 Russian companies up to this point in the Mueller investigation. Faux news won't tell you that, but it is something easily found by using an Internet search engine. I believe we will someday find out that Trump was co-opted because in the years leading up to his candidacy, he was beholden to Russian oligarchy because no banks in the US would lend him money.

You can believe whatever you want. If Mueller's team comes out with proof beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump and/or his circle of support colluded with the Russians, chances are good you won't believe it. I am of the opinion you follow the evidence to where it leads. If it shows Trump had nothing to do with it, then I will happily eat crow and apologize to anybody who wants an apology. If it shows Trump willingly colluded and then conspired to keep that from the American public, then I will demand that he be held accountable and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. NOBODY, not even Trump, is above the laws of this land. And if he is found to have conspired with Russia, an enemy of the US, then he is a traitor, and he should be treated as such.
:twocents:
With how hated Trump is, if any of these 17 agencies had a scrap of ACTUAL, TANGIBLE evidence, Trump would have been impeached already. Yes, please do follow the evidence. SO far its leaning towards he didnt collude with the Russians.

By the way, who ordered the Trump Dossier from Russian agents?
With anything but a Republican controlled House and Senate, your statement would be true. However, you have people like Nunes, Gowdy, and that clan over in the House cock blocking every investigation into wrong doing and McConnell in the Senate posturing to make sure Sh#t doesn't fly under his watch. Today, just now, Manafort took a plea deal and pleaded guilty to several charges and will be a cooperating witness in the Mueller investigation. You are too young to remember, but Watergate took over two years for just the investigation, then longer to impeach. I am happy that these guys are taking their time and getting it right. Hey, as I've said before, if Trump did nothing wrong then I'm thrilled. But if he was complicit in this then he needs to be brought to justice.

As for who started the dossier, Fusion GPS was hired by The Washington Free Beacon, a conservative website, to unearth potentially damaging information about Mr. Trump. The Free Beacon — which was funded by a major donor supporting Mr. Trump’s rival for the party’s nomination, Senator Marco Rubio of Florida — told Fusion GPS to stop doing research on Mr. Trump in May 2016, as Mr. Trump was clinching the Republican nomination. After Mr. Trump secured the nomination, Fusion GPS was hired on behalf of Mrs. Clinton’s campaign and the D.N.C. by their law firm, Perkins Coie, to compile research about Mr. Trump, his businesses and associates — including possible connections with Russia. It was at that point that Fusion GPS hired Mr. Steele, who has deep sourcing in Russia, to gather information. POINT 1 So I guess the answer to your question is Republicans started it and Democrats finished it. Much of what is in that dossier has been born out as truth. There is also a lot that we don't know just yet, only Mueller and his team know that info.

So did Trump collude?? I don't know, I'm not part of the investigation. I am willing to let this play out. If Trump is innocent he has nothing to worry about. If he isn't, then he needs to face his accusers and their evidence and let the law run its course.

POINT 2. Do I think Trump is an effective president? No, I think he is a f##k[#] idiot. He is no better at running the country than he is running a casino.

POINT 3. I do think that he is innocent until proven guilty and again, if he has done nothing wrong the evidence will bear that out.

POINT 4. It is obvious that many people around him were breaking laws and colluding with Russia and they are now facing the music for their actions. People need to just take a deep breath and have some patience. Let Mueller finish his investigation. I've seen how this worked with Nixon. If left to do their jobs, the truth will be told by Mueller (a lifelong Republican for what it's worth). Just my opinion, which are like assholes, we all have one when it comes to Trump.

SO much to unpack here, most of it steaming garbage.

So. Point 1. By your own admission, both parties, colluded with Russia to attack Trump. That is fact. That has been proven. There IS proof SOMEONE colluded with Russia and by your own admission, it wasn't Trump. Good to know you can follow the facts.

Point 2. Your opinion doesn't make any of your statements more factual. In what regards is he not being an effective president? Obama touted that we would never see economic growth of 3% ever again. Its been reported under Trump we just hit 4.1% GPD and 2.9% economic growth over the last 4 quarters. Those are facts. That seems to be pretty effective. Are you referencing the unemployment rate? Well it was nearly 10% under our former president and has been as low as 3.8% under Trump before stabilizing around that 4.1% mark. That seems pretty effective. Unless of course its a bad thing to get a large segment of the workforce active and actually employed. Hourly wages have increased almost 2.7% this year. Look, I get that there a lot of factors at play that could be affecting these in a short term fashion moreso than long term but to say he's being ineffective shows more about your personal bias than anything factual.

You don't have to like him, thats fine. I'm not sure where I stand on Trump yet either. But you can still respect him as holding the highest office in the land. He is not a "f##k[#] idiot". "f##k[#] Idiots" don't ascend to the levels he has in his life (or the levels Obama has in his life) being a "f##k[#] Idiot". Yes he speaks different than most politicians, he isn't a polished speaker. But he is speaking truth to his words and the vast majority of our country appreciates his honesty, his brashness, and his willingness to call a spade a spade. We spent 8 years having a phenomenal orator in the white house that did very little of significance for the average American. On paper, Trump offers a change that middle America desires.

Point 3. At what point are you willing to concede this? The Democrats and the MSM seem destined to drag his name through the mud at any and every opportunity yet have been able to get NOTHING to stick. At this rate we will spend the remainder of his presidency embroiled in the "flavor of the month" outrage only to bounce to the next as each and every one come back to be completely false if not outright lies. It's easy to say, "Oh yeah, I'll eat a whole bunch of crow when he's proven innocent" when its obvious he will never be proven innocent in the court of public opinion, they'll never come forward and say, "oops, we really missed the boat on that. He actually is a good guy." or whatever you think you'll hear that suffices your "innocence" claim. This thought doesn't make you open minded or "woke", it makes you a hypocrite. You're saying you'll give him his due when fits into your little box all the while knowing you'll never have to.

EDIT:

Point 4. This is sh#t[#] justification for attacking Trump. You say you just go where the evidence leads and that if he's proven innocent blah blah blah... You flat out admitted that The Republican Party (Rubio) and the Democratic Party (Clinton) colluded to gather information and dirt against Trump yet you scream and stamp your feet that Trump and his people need brought to justice and to face the music yet don't say Sh#t about these two? That too makes you a complete hypocrite.
Look, you are one of the Trump voters who will never find any fault with Trump. And you need to take a reading comprehension class. Rubio and Clinton did not collude with Russia. They both paid an ex British spy to research Trump, and that research revealed collusion by folks around Trump with Russians. Opposition research has been going on for decades. If you want it to be illegal, then write your congressman/congresswoman a letter and tell them so. The problem with Russian intervention is that a FOREIGN COUNTRY was doing illegal things to get this info on Clinton. Russia wanted Trump elected, not Clinton. Why in the [#]f##k would she pay Russians to steal her emails and expose them to the world? Nixon pulled the same Sh#t stealing documents from Democrats and then covering up the theft. The theft of electronic records/emails/texts is the same thing Nixon did. Sorry, it just is. I have said it before and I'll say it again, Trump is innocent until proven guilty, but his people ARE being proven guilty and that's why they are going to jail. Cool how that works, isn't it?

If you were here in front of me, I would ask if I could buy you a beer, we could talk about the Cowboys and then go our separate ways. We are polar opposites. I don't like Trump. You don't like Obama. I didn't like Obama. I didn't like Bush. [#]f##k, I haven't seen an honest president since Truman. If you read my little signature sign off on here you will see where I stand on all politicians, including your fearless leader. They all collectively f##k[#] suck. But, Trump could [#]f##k up a cannonball and this economy will implode when all of his disastrous trade policies and tariffs come home to roost. Anyway, cheers to you and cheers to Wyoming, something we can actually agree on. I love a good debate almost as much as a Wyoming win. I wish you and all Trump supporters the best of luck as well as all of the Democrats and Independents and anybody who is a citizen of this great country. Our public discourse is what sets us apart from other nations. Salute!!
Did you even read my responses you crotchety old [#]f##k? Where did it say that I voted for Trump or even support him? I can open my eyes and see facts without it meaning I support him or that I voted for him.

Typical liberal, after approached with ACTUAL discourse resort to name calling and tantrum throwing.

Sweet bro.

GO Pokes.

EDIT: that innocent British spy you speak of actually has ties and contacts (with whom he gathered the info in the dossier) currently serving in the Kremlin. If that’s not colluding with Russian officials I’m not sure what is.
I find the accusation of Steele being a Russian collaborator pretty funny, especially considering that 5 members of Trump's team, including his campaign manager have pleaded guilty to cavorting with the Ruskies. I won't sit here and swap insults with you. I do find you believing calling me a liberal is the ultimate insult, that Sh#t's funny. Again, I was raised a conservative and voted Republican for decades until the Tea Party took over. That's when I moved to a registered Independent. My dad always told me to never try to debate politics or religion because people are just too closed minded on those subjects to listen to anything counter to their beliefs. These little forays into the kingdom of forums is proof of that. As far as me being a crotchety old [#]f##k, you are right. I've earned that title. Now get off my f##k[#] lawn.
What is the difference between politicians and stoners? Politicians don't inhale...they just suck.
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