1. If we've learned anything about this years Wyoming team it's that we have no idea who they are. I can't remember a Wyoming team that could realistically win or lose any given game, home or away. We've won on the road against Oregon State/Utah State/Colorado State but we've also lost home games to Denver/Northern Colorado/New Mexico. But even the most optimistic Wyoming fan would have been hard pressed to believe we were going to win at Fresno State after they completely manhandled us in Laramie a few weeks ago and coming of the disappointing home lose against New Mexico which we gave up 119pts. Fresno State also came into the game on a 5 game win streak in which they had beaten every opponent by more than 13pts. So Wyoming decides to pummel them in the first half and do just enough in the 2nd half to hang on for a 10pt victory!
2. Getting Alan Herndon back was a major boon to our defense. By no means is he the only difference between giving up 110pts against New Mexico to only allowing 68pts to Fresno State, but he was certainly the chief component to our staunch defense against FSU. He blocked 4 shots had altered many more helping Wyoming hold the #1 field goal and 3pt shooting team well below their season averages. I also thought Herndon attacked the boards (8reb) instead of being the reactionary rebounder he normally is. Herndon has a reputation of being weak and always hurt (some of this is definitely deserved), but he hasn't missed a game since his freshman year when he had mono. Maybe he is more of a gamer than we give him credit for.
3. Hayden Dalton and Justin James are turning into quite the dynamic duo for the Pokes. Dalton had 17pts 9reb doing most of his damage in the first half (15pts in the 1st) and helping Wyoming gain a 17pt lead at halftime. James on the other hand was much more consistent with his 26pts (12 in the 1st/14 in the 2nd) and was almost our entire offense for a majority of the second half. For the first time maybe all season James was consistent with his 3ball (4-7 from arc), if he has all of a sudden found his stroke from deep things could get real interesting in Vegas. On the season James is averaging 19pt 6.2reb 3asst and shooting a very sold 46.4% from the field, while Dalton is averaging 18.2pts 8.1reb and shooting 46.7% from the field/84.8% from the strip/41% from three. I know their numbers are somewhat inflated by our fast pace of play but James/Dalton has to be on the short list of offensive duo's Wyoming has had in recent history (others receiving votes Adams/Nance, Ewing/Jones, Bailey/Davis).
4 I thought this was quite possibly our best rebounding game all season. We won the rebouding battle by only 2, but for us to win the rebounding battle at all is rare much less on the road against a physical team like Fresno State. Usually a good indication if the bad Wyoming team or the good Wyoming team showed up can be reflected in how many offensive rebounds we gave up. In games we struggle it seems teams get chance after chance on the offensive glass swatting away Wyoming players like flies. But that wasn't the case against FSU, we dominated the defensive glass only allowing 5 offensive boards. It was an impressive well rounded display on the boards (Dalton 9reb/Herndon 8reb/James 5reb/Gorski 5reb) by the Cowboys and the type of effort we need to see moving forward if we want a chance to compete come March.
5. Alexander Aka-Gorski has been the brunt of a lot of well deserved criticism. But give credit to the guy who could have easily tucked his tail and coward in the corner but instead he is showing signs of life. Gorski has scored in double figures 4 of the last 5 games, and while his three point shot hasn't improved drastically he is starting to do some damage inside the 3pt line. Against Fresno State which very well might be his 2nd best game in his career at Wyoming it seemed we tried to get him matched up against smaller guards in the paint and Gorski looked very comfortable scoring in the painted area. Quite the drastic change for a guy who used to attempt all his shots beyond the arc. While Gorski is just a piece player in the best of circumstances it is nice to seem him finally deserving of the minutes he has been getting most of the last 2 years. A interesting and somewhat disturbing stat, Gorski has the 10th most made three's in Wyoming basketball history.
6. Lou Adams in my mind continues to be the x-factor for this Wyoming team. If he can play with a controlled aggression like he did in the 2nd New Mexico game or the 1st Nevada game we are an extremely dangerous team. But if he is the out of control turnover machine we saw in the 1st New Mexico game or the 2nd CSU game we probably won't make much noise in Vegas. Adams possesses rare athleticism and at times he finishes at the rim gracefully like Kyrie Irving or like a hammer like Russel Westbrook but other times he finishes at the rim like Charles Hankerson running in quicksand during his 0-20 stretch during the 2014-15 season. Hopefully Adams is rounding into form at the perfect time.
7. Wyoming is the only D1 team in the country to have 4 different players score atleast 30pts or more in a game. If I was a totally homer I would make the argument that this stat is a strong indication that we will be a team to reckon with come the conference tournament in Vegas. This alone should at least give us some glimmer of hope come tournament time.
8. There has been a lot of doom and gloom around this particular Wyoming squad, much of it deserved to be sure, but for some reason this team has been discussed with more vitriol than any other Wyoming basketball team I can remember. I don't remember Wyoming fans being this disgruntled even during the dark ages of Heath Schroyer (maybe I'm conveniently forgetting those years). I'm by no means satisfied with where we are as a program or blaming anyone for feeling the way they do, but I'm genuinely curious why this team gets so much hate when worse teams at Wyoming in the last 20 years haven't received anywhere near the same level of criticism? Especially when you consider some of the things this team has that others at Wyoming didn't.
1. 2 players that are in contention for 1st or 2nd team all-conference (Dalton/James)
2. The leading shot blocker in the conference (Herndon 2.2blk per game)
3. 3 1,000pt career scorers (Dalton/James/Herndon)
4. An NCAA D1 leading 6-0 record in overtime games
5. The only team in D1 with 4 different players having 30pt plus games
6. A potential winning conference record
7. An RPI in the top 100
8. 7 wins away from the AA including 4 road wins in conference
9. Only team in the conference with wins against the top 3 teams (Nevada/Boise/Fresno State)
10. 2 of the top 5 scorers in the conference (James/Dalton)
Random Thoughts on the Fresno State Win
Nice thoughts. For the last one on why this team gets so much grief from the boards, for me it is because of those list of 10 things. Because of those 10 things and the fact that I know this team can play with the best of the conference (wins against Nevada, Boise, and Fresno) it should be playing in a post season tournament better than the CBI..44caliberkiller wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:27 am 1. If we've learned anything about this years Wyoming team it's that we have no idea who they are. I can't remember a Wyoming team that could realistically win or lose any given game, home or away. We've won on the road against Oregon State/Utah State/Colorado State but we've also lost home games to Denver/Northern Colorado/New Mexico. But even the most optimistic Wyoming fan would have been hard pressed to believe we were going to win at Fresno State after they completely manhandled us in Laramie a few weeks ago and coming of the disappointing home lose against New Mexico which we gave up 119pts. Fresno State also came into the game on a 5 game win streak in which they had beaten every opponent by more than 13pts. So Wyoming decides to pummel them in the first half and do just enough in the 2nd half to hang on for a 10pt victory!
2. Getting Alan Herndon back was a major boon to our defense. By no means is he the only difference between giving up 110pts against New Mexico to only allowing 68pts to Fresno State, but he was certainly the chief component to our staunch defense against FSU. He blocked 4 shots had altered many more helping Wyoming hold the #1 field goal and 3pt shooting team well below their season averages. I also thought Herndon attacked the boards (8reb) instead of being the reactionary rebounder he normally is. Herndon has a reputation of being weak and always hurt (some of this is definitely deserved), but he hasn't missed a game since his freshman year when he had mono. Maybe he is more of a gamer than we give him credit for.
3. Hayden Dalton and Justin James are turning into quite the dynamic duo for the Pokes. Dalton had 17pts 9reb doing most of his damage in the first half (15pts in the 1st) and helping Wyoming gain a 17pt lead at halftime. James on the other hand was much more consistent with his 26pts (12 in the 1st/14 in the 2nd) and was almost our entire offense for a majority of the second half. For the first time maybe all season James was consistent with his 3ball (4-7 from arc), if he has all of a sudden found his stroke from deep things could get real interesting in Vegas. On the season James is averaging 19pt 6.2reb 3asst and shooting a very sold 46.4% from the field, while Dalton is averaging 18.2pts 8.1reb and shooting 46.7% from the field/84.8% from the strip/41% from three. I know their numbers are somewhat inflated by our fast pace of play but James/Dalton has to be on the short list of offensive duo's Wyoming has had in recent history (others receiving votes Adams/Nance, Ewing/Jones, Bailey/Davis).
4 I thought this was quite possibly our best rebounding game all season. We won the rebouding battle by only 2, but for us to win the rebounding battle at all is rare much less on the road against a physical team like Fresno State. Usually a good indication if the bad Wyoming team or the good Wyoming team showed up can be reflected in how many offensive rebounds we gave up. In games we struggle it seems teams get chance after chance on the offensive glass swatting away Wyoming players like flies. But that wasn't the case against FSU, we dominated the defensive glass only allowing 5 offensive boards. It was an impressive well rounded display on the boards (Dalton 9reb/Herndon 8reb/James 5reb/Gorski 5reb) by the Cowboys and the type of effort we need to see moving forward if we want a chance to compete come March.
5. Alexander Aka-Gorski has been the brunt of a lot of well deserved criticism. But give credit to the guy who could have easily tucked his tail and coward in the corner but instead he is showing signs of life. Gorski has scored in double figures 4 of the last 5 games, and while his three point shot hasn't improved drastically he is starting to do some damage inside the 3pt line. Against Fresno State which very well might be his 2nd best game in his career at Wyoming it seemed we tried to get him matched up against smaller guards in the paint and Gorski looked very comfortable scoring in the painted area. Quite the drastic change for a guy who used to attempt all his shots beyond the arc. While Gorski is just a piece player in the best of circumstances it is nice to seem him finally deserving of the minutes he has been getting most of the last 2 years. A interesting and somewhat disturbing stat, Gorski has the 10th most made three's in Wyoming basketball history.
6. Lou Adams in my mind continues to be the x-factor for this Wyoming team. If he can play with a controlled aggression like he did in the 2nd New Mexico game or the 1st Nevada game we are an extremely dangerous team. But if he is the out of control turnover machine we saw in the 1st New Mexico game or the 2nd CSU game we probably won't make much noise in Vegas. Adams possesses rare athleticism and at times he finishes at the rim gracefully like Kyrie Irving or like a hammer like Russel Westbrook but other times he finishes at the rim like Charles Hankerson running in quicksand during his 0-20 stretch during the 2014-15 season. Hopefully Adams is rounding into form at the perfect time.
7. Wyoming is the only D1 team in the country to have 4 different players score atleast 30pts or more in a game. If I was a totally homer I would make the argument that this stat is a strong indication that we will be a team to reckon with come the conference tournament in Vegas. This alone should at least give us some glimmer of hope come tournament time.
8. There has been a lot of doom and gloom around this particular Wyoming squad, much of it deserved to be sure, but for some reason this team has been discussed with more vitriol than any other Wyoming basketball team I can remember. I don't remember Wyoming fans being this disgruntled even during the dark ages of Heath Schroyer (maybe I'm conveniently forgetting those years). I'm by no means satisfied with where we are as a program or blaming anyone for feeling the way they do, but I'm genuinely curious why this team gets so much hate when worse teams at Wyoming in the last 20 years haven't received anywhere near the same level of criticism? Especially when you consider some of the things this team has that others at Wyoming didn't.
1. 2 players that are in contention for 1st or 2nd team all-conference (Dalton/James)
2. The leading shot blocker in the conference (Herndon 2.2blk per game)
3. 3 1,000pt career scorers (Dalton/James/Herndon)
4. An NCAA D1 leading 6-0 record in overtime games
5. The only team in D1 with 4 different players having 30pt plus games
6. A potential winning conference record
7. An RPI in the top 100
8. 7 wins away from the AA including 4 road wins in conference
9. Only team in the conference with wins against the top 3 teams (Nevada/Boise/Fresno State)
10. 2 of the top 5 scorers in the conference (James/Dalton)
However, the team is so inconstant and has so many bad losses (Denver, UNC, CSU, New Mexico twice), that the RPI, KenPom, and other metrics are about 40 spots lower than they otherwise would be or could be if we played consistently. This team is at the point of win the MW tournament to go to the dance or lose and likely get a CBI invite again. If we played consistent we would probably be at least a lock for an at large to the NIT, but instead I believe we have played ourselves out of that.
It is also because of the lack of progress through the year. If we through the year seemed to get more consistent in our strategy, our rebounding, our offensive sets, or our defensive sets, I also would be happy. But instead we have some games (Fresno) where we do things things well, and then we have other games (hopefully not Air Force) where we just don't even show up. That is what makes this team so frustrating when they have all that list of 10 great characteristics but choose to take off ~half the conference games of the year (or take off either the first or second half of most of the early conference games, where we usually had one good half and one horrible half).
Last edited by WyomingAg on Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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LanderPoke
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Gorski has been better. Got to give credit to him! Hope he finishes his career strong. It is disturbing that he’s up there in made threes career-wise considering he’s like a 30% career 3 pt shooter. Means he’s missed a lot of threes.
I think this team infuriates so bad because they really do have tons of talent, but don’t bring it every game. Effort isn’t there some nights. Also this team lacks hustle and toughness. It’s hard for me to relate to a team that gets pounded on the boards routinely. It’s such coward b.s. that we don’t even try for offensive rebounds. I can’t and won’t ever condone that crap.
Coaching is also a big reason this team gets so much hate. Lack of real offense is paramount to my consternation. Jacking threes is our strategy. That would be fine I guess, but we are a legitimately poor outside shooting team yet we shoot an inordinate amount of them. That’s bad coaching. No rotation is another frustration. I mean come on. No one really knows their role or even how many minutes they may see. It makes little sense most of the time
Essentially this team catches a lot of crap because they are underachievers. BUT they can erase all these frustrations with three games in March.
Go, Pokes!
I think this team infuriates so bad because they really do have tons of talent, but don’t bring it every game. Effort isn’t there some nights. Also this team lacks hustle and toughness. It’s hard for me to relate to a team that gets pounded on the boards routinely. It’s such coward b.s. that we don’t even try for offensive rebounds. I can’t and won’t ever condone that crap.
Coaching is also a big reason this team gets so much hate. Lack of real offense is paramount to my consternation. Jacking threes is our strategy. That would be fine I guess, but we are a legitimately poor outside shooting team yet we shoot an inordinate amount of them. That’s bad coaching. No rotation is another frustration. I mean come on. No one really knows their role or even how many minutes they may see. It makes little sense most of the time
Essentially this team catches a lot of crap because they are underachievers. BUT they can erase all these frustrations with three games in March.
Go, Pokes!
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stymeman
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This was very well thought out and written. This was a big win (if) we woulda won the last one being at home but No....this team really perplexes me, one game looking awesome, the next like they've never seen a basketball. What gives. I thought after last spring's CBI run and a team of veterans we'd be about 6 wins better. I really dont know what to think, guaranteed 3 more games i dont think we'll get to 20, but its truly been perplexing and interesting. Any can and will happen in the MWC Tourney....GET SOME POKES
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NowherePoke
- A Real Cowboy
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In terms of the doom and gloom, I have a few comments:.44caliberkiller wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:27 am 1. If we've learned anything about this years Wyoming team it's that we have no idea who they are. I can't remember a Wyoming team that could realistically win or lose any given game, home or away. We've won on the road against Oregon State/Utah State/Colorado State but we've also lost home games to Denver/Northern Colorado/New Mexico. But even the most optimistic Wyoming fan would have been hard pressed to believe we were going to win at Fresno State after they completely manhandled us in Laramie a few weeks ago and coming of the disappointing home lose against New Mexico which we gave up 119pts. Fresno State also came into the game on a 5 game win streak in which they had beaten every opponent by more than 13pts. So Wyoming decides to pummel them in the first half and do just enough in the 2nd half to hang on for a 10pt victory!
2. Getting Alan Herndon back was a major boon to our defense. By no means is he the only difference between giving up 110pts against New Mexico to only allowing 68pts to Fresno State, but he was certainly the chief component to our staunch defense against FSU. He blocked 4 shots had altered many more helping Wyoming hold the #1 field goal and 3pt shooting team well below their season averages. I also thought Herndon attacked the boards (8reb) instead of being the reactionary rebounder he normally is. Herndon has a reputation of being weak and always hurt (some of this is definitely deserved), but he hasn't missed a game since his freshman year when he had mono. Maybe he is more of a gamer than we give him credit for.
3. Hayden Dalton and Justin James are turning into quite the dynamic duo for the Pokes. Dalton had 17pts 9reb doing most of his damage in the first half (15pts in the 1st) and helping Wyoming gain a 17pt lead at halftime. James on the other hand was much more consistent with his 26pts (12 in the 1st/14 in the 2nd) and was almost our entire offense for a majority of the second half. For the first time maybe all season James was consistent with his 3ball (4-7 from arc), if he has all of a sudden found his stroke from deep things could get real interesting in Vegas. On the season James is averaging 19pt 6.2reb 3asst and shooting a very sold 46.4% from the field, while Dalton is averaging 18.2pts 8.1reb and shooting 46.7% from the field/84.8% from the strip/41% from three. I know their numbers are somewhat inflated by our fast pace of play but James/Dalton has to be on the short list of offensive duo's Wyoming has had in recent history (others receiving votes Adams/Nance, Ewing/Jones, Bailey/Davis).
4 I thought this was quite possibly our best rebounding game all season. We won the rebouding battle by only 2, but for us to win the rebounding battle at all is rare much less on the road against a physical team like Fresno State. Usually a good indication if the bad Wyoming team or the good Wyoming team showed up can be reflected in how many offensive rebounds we gave up. In games we struggle it seems teams get chance after chance on the offensive glass swatting away Wyoming players like flies. But that wasn't the case against FSU, we dominated the defensive glass only allowing 5 offensive boards. It was an impressive well rounded display on the boards (Dalton 9reb/Herndon 8reb/James 5reb/Gorski 5reb) by the Cowboys and the type of effort we need to see moving forward if we want a chance to compete come March.
5. Alexander Aka-Gorski has been the brunt of a lot of well deserved criticism. But give credit to the guy who could have easily tucked his tail and coward in the corner but instead he is showing signs of life. Gorski has scored in double figures 4 of the last 5 games, and while his three point shot hasn't improved drastically he is starting to do some damage inside the 3pt line. Against Fresno State which very well might be his 2nd best game in his career at Wyoming it seemed we tried to get him matched up against smaller guards in the paint and Gorski looked very comfortable scoring in the painted area. Quite the drastic change for a guy who used to attempt all his shots beyond the arc. While Gorski is just a piece player in the best of circumstances it is nice to seem him finally deserving of the minutes he has been getting most of the last 2 years. A interesting and somewhat disturbing stat, Gorski has the 10th most made three's in Wyoming basketball history.
6. Lou Adams in my mind continues to be the x-factor for this Wyoming team. If he can play with a controlled aggression like he did in the 2nd New Mexico game or the 1st Nevada game we are an extremely dangerous team. But if he is the out of control turnover machine we saw in the 1st New Mexico game or the 2nd CSU game we probably won't make much noise in Vegas. Adams possesses rare athleticism and at times he finishes at the rim gracefully like Kyrie Irving or like a hammer like Russel Westbrook but other times he finishes at the rim like Charles Hankerson running in quicksand during his 0-20 stretch during the 2014-15 season. Hopefully Adams is rounding into form at the perfect time.
7. Wyoming is the only D1 team in the country to have 4 different players score atleast 30pts or more in a game. If I was a totally homer I would make the argument that this stat is a strong indication that we will be a team to reckon with come the conference tournament in Vegas. This alone should at least give us some glimmer of hope come tournament time.
8. There has been a lot of doom and gloom around this particular Wyoming squad, much of it deserved to be sure, but for some reason this team has been discussed with more vitriol than any other Wyoming basketball team I can remember. I don't remember Wyoming fans being this disgruntled even during the dark ages of Heath Schroyer (maybe I'm conveniently forgetting those years). I'm by no means satisfied with where we are as a program or blaming anyone for feeling the way they do, but I'm genuinely curious why this team gets so much hate when worse teams at Wyoming in the last 20 years haven't received anywhere near the same level of criticism? Especially when you consider some of the things this team has that others at Wyoming didn't.
1. 2 players that are in contention for 1st or 2nd team all-conference (Dalton/James)
2. The leading shot blocker in the conference (Herndon 2.2blk per game)
3. 3 1,000pt career scorers (Dalton/James/Herndon)
4. An NCAA D1 leading 6-0 record in overtime games
5. The only team in D1 with 4 different players having 30pt plus games
6. A potential winning conference record
7. An RPI in the top 100
8. 7 wins away from the AA including 4 road wins in conference
9. Only team in the conference with wins against the top 3 teams (Nevada/Boise/Fresno State)
10. 2 of the top 5 scorers in the conference (James/Dalton)
1. You have probably suppressed the memory of the Heath years (I have tried).
2. I think all of the positive things you mention is the reason this team gets so much grief. We have all of those things you mention and, barring a MWCT run, will end up in the CBI. That would seem to be classic underachivement.
3. Effort. The defensive effort against UNM was as bad as I can remember. The players are capable of closing out on shooters and generally trying. They didn't bother to do that. That speaks very poorly to the culture being built by the current staff. That is just one game, but that issue has cropped up a number of times.
4. Bad losses are very deflating and this team is the only decent team I can remember with that many bad losses. The only other teams with this many bad losses were genuinely bad teams (Schroyer years). Even McClain's bad teams his last 4 years did not nearly have these types of losses to Sub 150 RPI/KenPom type opponents.
5. Trajectory. This is a pretty veteran team. People complain about Herndon/Dalton, but I think their skill sets and abilities are somewhat underappreciated. I don't see us being better next year in the front court with Moemeka/Jones/Thompson in place of Herndon/Dalton/Moemeka. The wing should be fine as Maldonado continues to grow, James will be an all-conference guy, and hopefully Mack along with Taylor can pick up some minutes as freshman. Not sure about PG. Still, it's hard to see this group contending within in the next couple of years.
I think the ultimate issue is the bad losses (particularly at home to CSU and UNC) along with some uninspiring play.
This team shoots a ton of 3's and doesn't shoot it particularly well. It doesn't make for fun basketball as there are a lot of empty possessions. JMO.
Living up here in Pinedale, I don't get to see the Pokes as much as I would like. In fact, I was only able to pick up several minutes online today (Monday). Immediately, I saw something new on defense. The coaches made a nice adjustment and the players stuck to it. They moved back from pressure in their man-to-man and used what we used to call a sinking, sagging man. This move cut off penetration (which hurt them so badly against N.M.) and threw Fresno off. It was brilliant coaching and nice execution. Good job coaches!
As good as AFA moves the ball around, I'm not sure this will work against them. They will almost always find the open man outside to hit the three. But I agree. The Poke penetration defense has been horrible so far. Maybe Edwards finally realized this.
You should watch parts of the game again and the spacing on defense. They were able to get a hand in the face of the shooter and still sag--it isn't that hard to do when you have length and quickness--both of which Wyo has. Mostly, it takes good coaching and players responding. I think the issue is getting the Cowboys to pay attention to details.
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NowherePoke
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I agree with this.andersonj wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:57 pm You should watch parts of the game again and the spacing on defense. They were able to get a hand in the face of the shooter and still sag--it isn't that hard to do when you have length and quickness--both of which Wyo has. Mostly, it takes good coaching and players responding. I think the issue is getting the Cowboys to pay attention to details.