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bladerunnr wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:54 am I read one post on the CU message board after the Dorrell firing that CU won't rest until they're paying 6 coaches simultaneously. It shows how hard it is to find the right guy.

BackHarlowRoad wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:49 am As much as I like the idea of finding a young(ish), established, and winning FBS head coach to take over the program...those candidates aren't looking at MWC as an upgrade and especially not looking at UW as an upgrade. They're going P5. No harm in trying, but those interested in the UW job are up and coming coordinators looking for their first gig or FCS guys. That's just the reality of the situation.

Wyovanian wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:51 pm

BackHarlowRoad wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:49 am As much as I like the idea of finding a young(ish), established, and winning FBS head coach to take over the program...those candidates aren't looking at MWC as an upgrade and especially not looking at UW as an upgrade. They're going P5. No harm in trying, but those interested in the UW job are up and coming coordinators looking for their first gig or FCS guys. That's just the reality of the situation.

poop. Someone making $500k in the Sun Belt is going to be thrilled at $2M+ in the MWC, no to mention the upgrade in facilities...

CowboyNV wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:21 am Maybe the problem isn't just the coaches, but the AD who selects, hires, extends said coaches. Moon took over in 1996, Tiller's last year. He hired Dimel (.657 winning percentage), Koenning (.147 winning percentage) and Glenn (.423 winning percentage). Moon leaves, and in come Tommy boy. He fires Glenn, and hires Christensen (.435 winning percentage) and Bohl (.474 winning percentage). Other than Dimel, not exactly a sterling job selecting coaches.

I've been following Wyoming since the 1950's, so I've seen the coming and going of these guys -
Phil Dickens
Bob Devaney - Two national championships
Lloyd Eaton - Great coach, but not a great human being
Fritz Shurmer - He won a super bowl with the Packers as their defensive coordinator
Fred Akers - Undefeated in 1977 and 1983 but lost the championship game in both those years
Bill Lewis (not a good coach) - Did win a national championship at Georgia in 1980 as defensive coordinator
Pat Dye - In the college football hall of fame as a coach - 153–62–5 in his college coaching career
Al Kincaid - He would have fit right in with the hires of today
Dennis Erickson - Won two national championships at Miami
Paul Roach - Wyoming legend
Joe TIller - Another Wyoming legend

My point is, prior to Moon, Wyoming did a good job of finding talent. While they couldn't keep them, they still hired coaches (most of them) that went on to be great. Since Moon and Burman, Wyoming has sucked. Perhaps it's the current climate in college football, or just bad AD's, but things used to be a lot different. Pointing to Bohl's teams going to bowl games is a bit of reach...considering there are now 40+ bowl games and it's almost like a participation trophy. Bohl's teams would never have gone to any bowl game prior to 2000 (look at Tiller's team). Maybe, just maybe, it's time for a new AD, and some fresh perspective on what has become a mediocre Sh#t show in Laramie.

CowboyNV wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:21 am Maybe the problem isn't just the coaches, but the AD who selects, hires, extends said coaches. Moon took over in 1996, Tiller's last year. He hired Dimel (.657 winning percentage), Koenning (.147 winning percentage) and Glenn (.423 winning percentage). Moon leaves, and in come Tommy boy. He fires Glenn, and hires Christensen (.435 winning percentage) and Bohl (.474 winning percentage). Other than Dimel, not exactly a sterling job selecting coaches.

I've been following Wyoming since the 1950's, so I've seen the coming and going of these guys -
Phil Dickens
Bob Devaney - Two national championships
Lloyd Eaton - Great coach, but not a great human being
Fritz Shurmer - He won a super bowl with the Packers as their defensive coordinator
Fred Akers - Undefeated in 1977 and 1983 but lost the championship game in both those years
Bill Lewis (not a good coach) - Did win a national championship at Georgia in 1980 as defensive coordinator
Pat Dye - In the college football hall of fame as a coach - 153–62–5 in his college coaching career
Al Kincaid - He would have fit right in with the hires of today
Dennis Erickson - Won two national championships at Miami
Paul Roach - Wyoming legend
Joe TIller - Another Wyoming legend

My point is, prior to Moon, Wyoming did a good job of finding talent. While they couldn't keep them, they still hired coaches (most of them) that went on to be great. Since Moon and Burman, Wyoming has sucked. Perhaps it's the current climate in college football, or just bad AD's, but things used to be a lot different. Pointing to Bohl's teams going to bowl games is a bit of reach...considering there are now 40+ bowl games and it's almost like a participation trophy. Bohl's teams would never have gone to any bowl game prior to 2000 (look at Tiller's team). Maybe, just maybe, it's time for a new AD, and some fresh perspective on what has become a mediocre Sh#t show in Laramie.

doreno5 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:20 am

CowboyNV wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:21 am Maybe the problem isn't just the coaches, but the AD who selects, hires, extends said coaches. Moon took over in 1996, Tiller's last year. He hired Dimel (.657 winning percentage), Koenning (.147 winning percentage) and Glenn (.423 winning percentage). Moon leaves, and in come Tommy boy. He fires Glenn, and hires Christensen (.435 winning percentage) and Bohl (.474 winning percentage). Other than Dimel, not exactly a sterling job selecting coaches.

I've been following Wyoming since the 1950's, so I've seen the coming and going of these guys -
Phil Dickens
Bob Devaney - Two national championships
Lloyd Eaton - Great coach, but not a great human being
Fritz Shurmer - He won a super bowl with the Packers as their defensive coordinator
Fred Akers - Undefeated in 1977 and 1983 but lost the championship game in both those years
Bill Lewis (not a good coach) - Did win a national championship at Georgia in 1980 as defensive coordinator
Pat Dye - In the college football hall of fame as a coach - 153–62–5 in his college coaching career
Al Kincaid - He would have fit right in with the hires of today
Dennis Erickson - Won two national championships at Miami
Paul Roach - Wyoming legend
Joe TIller - Another Wyoming legend

My point is, prior to Moon, Wyoming did a good job of finding talent. While they couldn't keep them, they still hired coaches (most of them) that went on to be great. Since Moon and Burman, Wyoming has sucked. Perhaps it's the current climate in college football, or just bad AD's, but things used to be a lot different. Pointing to Bohl's teams going to bowl games is a bit of reach...considering there are now 40+ bowl games and it's almost like a participation trophy. Bohl's teams would never have gone to any bowl game prior to 2000 (look at Tiller's team). Maybe, just maybe, it's time for a new AD, and some fresh perspective on what has become a mediocre Sh#t show in Laramie.

The single biggest mistake was Moon not keeping Tiller who absolutely loved Wyoming enough to retire near Buffalo. I heard from some that he would have stayed if Wyoming would have matched the Purdue offer, maybe it was simply economics. Wyoming could not afford to keep him.

Bohl biggest issue is he is as happy winning 13 to 7 as 31 to 14. Offensively Wyoming is very predictably run oriented and our defense always struggles against passing offenses. His philosophy works if you consistently are a top 20 defense , but Wyoming is not and has not been recently.

DamThatRiver22 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 11:46 am I've mentioned it before, but since we're bringing it up more in-depth, I'll reiterate.

Talk of firing Burman is absolute madness from overly emotional and disappointed football-centric fans who can't see the forest for the trees.

Burman is absolutely a net positive (and not by a small margin) for Wyoming athletics...and what he has done for the athletic department, the university, and the community as a whole is extremely overlooked and understated.

He certainly has his faults, and his 100% loyalty to Bohl is one of those. And you know what? Maybe in the next couple of years it might be a good idea to move to the next chapter if there's an excellent candidate with good vision available to go after.

But finding a qualified AD is a million times harder than finding a qualified football coach, and to claim that Burman has been a "bad AD" is absolutely untrue.

There's a lot more that goes into being an AD than just what football and basketball coaches they hire.

CowboyNV wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:21 am Maybe the problem isn't just the coaches, but the AD who selects, hires, extends said coaches. Moon took over in 1996, Tiller's last year. He hired Dimel (.657 winning percentage), Koenning (.147 winning percentage) and Glenn (.423 winning percentage). Moon leaves, and in come Tommy boy. He fires Glenn, and hires Christensen (.435 winning percentage) and Bohl (.474 winning percentage). Other than Dimel, not exactly a sterling job selecting coaches.

I've been following Wyoming since the 1950's, so I've seen the coming and going of these guys -
Phil Dickens
Bob Devaney - Two national championships
Lloyd Eaton - Great coach, but not a great human being
Fritz Shurmer - He won a super bowl with the Packers as their defensive coordinator
Fred Akers - Undefeated in 1977 and 1983 but lost the championship game in both those years
Bill Lewis (not a good coach) - Did win a national championship at Georgia in 1980 as defensive coordinator
Pat Dye - In the college football hall of fame as a coach - 153–62–5 in his college coaching career
Al Kincaid - He would have fit right in with the hires of today
Dennis Erickson - Won two national championships at Miami
Paul Roach - Wyoming legend
Joe TIller - Another Wyoming legend

My point is, prior to Moon, Wyoming did a good job of finding talent. While they couldn't keep them, they still hired coaches (most of them) that went on to be great. Since Moon and Burman, Wyoming has sucked. Perhaps it's the current climate in college football, or just bad AD's, but things used to be a lot different. Pointing to Bohl's teams going to bowl games is a bit of reach...considering there are now 40+ bowl games and it's almost like a participation trophy. Bohl's teams would never have gone to any bowl game prior to 2000 (look at Tiller's team). Maybe, just maybe, it's time for a new AD, and some fresh perspective on what has become a mediocre Sh#t show in Laramie.

PokesArePeopleToo wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:40 am

CowboyNV wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:21 am Maybe the problem isn't just the coaches, but the AD who selects, hires, extends said coaches. Moon took over in 1996, Tiller's last year. He hired Dimel (.657 winning percentage), Koenning (.147 winning percentage) and Glenn (.423 winning percentage). Moon leaves, and in come Tommy boy. He fires Glenn, and hires Christensen (.435 winning percentage) and Bohl (.474 winning percentage). Other than Dimel, not exactly a sterling job selecting coaches.

I've been following Wyoming since the 1950's, so I've seen the coming and going of these guys -
Phil Dickens
Bob Devaney - Two national championships
Lloyd Eaton - Great coach, but not a great human being
Fritz Shurmer - He won a super bowl with the Packers as their defensive coordinator
Fred Akers - Undefeated in 1977 and 1983 but lost the championship game in both those years
Bill Lewis (not a good coach) - Did win a national championship at Georgia in 1980 as defensive coordinator
Pat Dye - In the college football hall of fame as a coach - 153–62–5 in his college coaching career
Al Kincaid - He would have fit right in with the hires of today
Dennis Erickson - Won two national championships at Miami
Paul Roach - Wyoming legend
Joe TIller - Another Wyoming legend

My point is, prior to Moon, Wyoming did a good job of finding talent. While they couldn't keep them, they still hired coaches (most of them) that went on to be great. Since Moon and Burman, Wyoming has sucked. Perhaps it's the current climate in college football, or just bad AD's, but things used to be a lot different. Pointing to Bohl's teams going to bowl games is a bit of reach...considering there are now 40+ bowl games and it's almost like a participation trophy. Bohl's teams would never have gone to any bowl game prior to 2000 (look at Tiller's team). Maybe, just maybe, it's time for a new AD, and some fresh perspective on what has become a mediocre Sh#t show in Laramie.

Great stuff here! And I agree about Burman who I have always felt was more of a sleazy politician type, and a paranoid one at that, than a good AD. Burman is a terrible face for the universities sports programs. But I think Burman is part of the good old boys club around the university and his firing would be shocking if you ask me.

Poke in New England wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 2:58 pm

CowboyNV wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:21 am Maybe the problem isn't just the coaches, but the AD who selects, hires, extends said coaches. Moon took over in 1996, Tiller's last year. He hired Dimel (.657 winning percentage), Koenning (.147 winning percentage) and Glenn (.423 winning percentage). Moon leaves, and in come Tommy boy. He fires Glenn, and hires Christensen (.435 winning percentage) and Bohl (.474 winning percentage). Other than Dimel, not exactly a sterling job selecting coaches.

I've been following Wyoming since the 1950's, so I've seen the coming and going of these guys -
Phil Dickens
Bob Devaney - Two national championships
Lloyd Eaton - Great coach, but not a great human being
Fritz Shurmer - He won a super bowl with the Packers as their defensive coordinator
Fred Akers - Undefeated in 1977 and 1983 but lost the championship game in both those years
Bill Lewis (not a good coach) - Did win a national championship at Georgia in 1980 as defensive coordinator
Pat Dye - In the college football hall of fame as a coach - 153–62–5 in his college coaching career
Al Kincaid - He would have fit right in with the hires of today
Dennis Erickson - Won two national championships at Miami
Paul Roach - Wyoming legend
Joe TIller - Another Wyoming legend

My point is, prior to Moon, Wyoming did a good job of finding talent. While they couldn't keep them, they still hired coaches (most of them) that went on to be great. Since Moon and Burman, Wyoming has sucked. Perhaps it's the current climate in college football, or just bad AD's, but things used to be a lot different. Pointing to Bohl's teams going to bowl games is a bit of reach...considering there are now 40+ bowl games and it's almost like a participation trophy. Bohl's teams would never have gone to any bowl game prior to 2000 (look at Tiller's team). Maybe, just maybe, it's time for a new AD, and some fresh perspective on what has become a mediocre Sh#t show in Laramie.

Dumping Burman is a pipe dream. The story is still being written, but the Jeff Linder hire may the best in the modern history of Wyoming basketball. We have a nationally competitive wrestling program and are competitive with peer schools in other Olympic sports as well. Things would have to fall far (not just in football) for Burman's seat to warm even slightly.

DamThatRiver22 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:37 pm Our football program...while there is a ton of unrealized potential there...is more stable than it has been since the late 90s. And while his continued loyalty to Bohl may be his downfall, the hire itself was a grand slam.

Our basketball program has had some pretty low points but also some pretty high points as well, and Linder was an absolutely stellar hire.

As mentioned, our wrestling team is in a power conference and is usually competitive on a national scale.

The majority of our non-revenue sports are competitive.

Burman has been at the forefront of getting a ton of facilities and grounds upgrades, including the High Altitude performance center...which is arguably one of the best facilities in the MWC.

Our fundraising and budgets are in a better spot than they've ever been.

Our PR, marketing, and national profile is leaps and bounds ahead of where it was before he got here. Everything from graphics design teams to the general perception of our school and program is on another level compared to what it used to be.

I spend a lot of time in large college sports communities online, and the national perception of our school and our brand has never been higher.

Hell, even our merch is on point....and our uniform deals are perhaps the best we've ever had.

Burman also seems to be great at keeping everyone collectively happy...between the various sports, the school, the boosters, even the City of Laramie and the state legislature (whom he depends on for funding for a lot of things). That's a huge but often overlooked part of his job.

Not to mention the fact that ADs...particularly in football, and particularly founding members...are heavily involved in conference changes and decisions. And the MWC (bizarre on-field performance this year aside)...is in the best shape it's ever been in.

Again, finding a qualified AD who can be successful long-term in so many different facets of a rather complex job is a MILLION times harder than simply finding a competant football coach. And the University of Wyoming isn't going to (nor should they) take such a massive risk by firing him right now when by all measures, he's excelled at his job.

No AD is going to be 100% perfect and have 100% success in every area of such a multifaceted job...especially in Laramie freaking Wyoming...and somehow I get the feeling that some of you want outright football dominance at the expense of literally everything and everyone else.

(Also consider that Burman isn't God...there are some things beyond his control and part of the job of an AD is to somewhat acquiesce to the powers that be and the hands that feed.)

Again, firing Burman right now is absolute crazy talk and a MASSIVE risk that UW isn't going to take.

PokesArePeopleToo wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:37 pm Charlie Van Over, a guy from Rock Springs?

I've never heard of him.

McPeachy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:21 am

Wyovanian wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:51 pm

BackHarlowRoad wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:49 am As much as I like the idea of finding a young(ish), established, and winning FBS head coach to take over the program...those candidates aren't looking at MWC as an upgrade and especially not looking at UW as an upgrade. They're going P5. No harm in trying, but those interested in the UW job are up and coming coordinators looking for their first gig or FCS guys. That's just the reality of the situation.

poop. Someone making $500k in the Sun Belt is going to be thrilled at $2M+ in the MWC, no to mention the upgrade in facilities...

Thought the same thing. Hell, any HC in any G5 conference making < $1,000,000 at the current position, would salivate at WYO facilities and salary.