Bohl 2023….

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307bball
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WYO1016 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 9:43 am We can all be frustrated by last season, but let's not act like Bohl is a bad coach. He's been the best coach we've had since Joe Tiller got run out of town hands down. It's been 25 years since Tiller left town. Since then we've had:

Dana Dimel - 22-13 - Left on a high note, but was a crap recruiter. His head coaching record since leaving Laramie is 20-59.
Vic Koenning - 5-29 - We all remember this Sh#t show. He's only ever been head coach for 1 game since being canned by UW.
Joe Glenn - 30-41 - We all have fond memories of Joe, but we all also remember that it was time for him to go. Never won more than 7 games, and he only did that once.
Dave Christensen - 27-35 - Not only was ol' dickface a POS, he couldn't stop the opposing offense to save his life. He's been a position coach since he left the Gem City.
Craig Bohl - 45-50 - Is the only coach since Paul Roach to have 3+ 8 win seasons.

My point here is that while we're all frustrated with the last few seasons, the grass is as green as it's been in 25 years. That doesn't mean we should want more, but we also should be careful what we wish for as far as a coaching change goes.
I'm pretty much in agreement w/you. I think a lot of folks would take issue with Bohl being "hands down" the best since Tiller but I still put it that way. I'm not convinced by Ragtime's argument about factoring in conference strength and program investment, but it did cause me to take a closer look at Bohl's results and it was not kind to him. Looking at the entire body of work...Bohl is trending in the wrong direction IMO. Unless he bucks history, things will get ugly in the next 1-3 years.

Also...I think you meant to say " That doesn't mean we shouldn't want more, but we also should be careful what we wish for as far as a coaching change goes."
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WYO1016 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 9:43 am We can all be frustrated by last season
Truer words...

Bohl came out pre-season 2021 saying this was his most talented team EVER while at UW, and proceeded to set the expectation level very high for his squad. Then he and his team proceeded to fall on their ass and piss down their collective leg. He deserves all the poop he is getting on this board. We are Wyoming fans. We are always saying "this is our year" to only be let down over and over again. He doesn't get a pass from me after that poop.
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McPeachy wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 10:29 am
WYO1016 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 9:43 am We can all be frustrated by last season
Truer words...

Bohl came out pre-season 2021 saying this was his most talented team EVER while at UW, and proceeded to set the expectation level very high for his squad. Then he and his team proceeded to fall on their A$$ and piss down their collective leg. He deserves all the Sh#t he is getting on this board. We are Wyoming fans. We are always saying "this is our year" to only be let down over and over again. He doesn't get a pass from me after that [#]sh#t.
Agree. The reality is that we took him at his word that this was his best team ever and they proceeded to have a terrible year! He came out in the press and threw kids under the bus. At the end of the year, after Hawaii, he says that they didn't have the kids prepared (and Hawaii looked a lot like Fresno, Air Force, New Mexico, etc. - so it is safe to say that they weren't prepared for those games either).

If that is the best we can expect, because that was his most talented team ever, then the grass is not green anymore. It has turned, cured and is about to burn, which brings me to one of my original points - if Bohl wasn't such an egotistical ass, he might get a bit more grace. Winning gets you leeway - we can look the other way and enjoy the wins. But he isn't winning. I would say that UNM, Fresno and Hawaii were quite the opposite of winning.
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LawPoke wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 10:55 am ..... if Bohl wasn't such an egotistical A$$, he might get a bit more grace.
I am hearing this so much and I'm legitimately confused by it. Do you all share a property line with him? Are you Family? I thought we wanted championships. From the content of so many of the messages here...Bohl's biggest problems are his arrogance, condescending attitude, and stubbornness. Are any of you going to look the other way on his record the last couple seasons if he was a Joe Glenn level nice guy?? If the answer is yes...then you and I are probably valuing different things. Nothing he has said or done in the media would be held against him if he was winning .... that is just the fact. He'd be viewed as a cantankerous rascally "ball-coach" and we would all love him.

He called last years team the best he's had .... is that coach-speak or did he actually believe that?...don't know and don't care. I care a great deal about the results though. And the results ... not great (lately).

If he can't maintain even the meager level of success from the last few years and becomes the most personable humble guy, he's going to get fired, no if's and's or but's.

If he deliver's a championship in the next two years and doubles down on the arrogance and condescension ... mark my words, we will be singing his praises.

Let's separate good coach/bad coach from the good guy/bad guy conversation. I'm willing to have both but it's dumb to keep equating them.
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307bball wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 11:54 am
LawPoke wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 10:55 am ..... if Bohl wasn't such an egotistical A$$, he might get a bit more grace.
I am hearing this so much and I'm legitimately confused by it. Do you all share a property line with him? Are you Family? I thought we wanted championships. From the content of so many of the messages here...Bohl's biggest problems are his arrogance, condescending attitude, and stubbornness. Are any of you going to look the other way on his record the last couple seasons if he was a Joe Glenn level nice guy?? If the answer is yes...then you and I are probably valuing different things. Nothing he has said or done in the media would be held against him if he was winning .... that is just the fact. He'd be viewed as a cantankerous rascally "ball-coach" and we would all love him.

He called last years team the best he's had .... is that coach-speak or did he actually believe that?...don't know and don't care. I care a great deal about the results though. And the results ... not great (lately).

If he can't maintain even the meager level of success from the last few years and becomes the most personable humble guy, he's going to get fired, no if's and's or but's.

If he deliver's a championship in the next two years and doubles down on the arrogance and condescension ... mark my words, we will be singing his praises.

Let's separate good coach/bad coach from the good guy/bad guy conversation. I'm willing to have both but it's dumb to keep equating them.
Speaking for myself...

There are plenty of examples to show what an ass he can be. From strictly closing practices, to snide comments about his own fanbase on the regular (i.e. little league coaches), to trashing players by name, to his handling of Covid / Playing Time / Senior Day / Transfer Portal / Stubbornness, and on and on and on. And yes, football coaches, can be asses, most of them. Win and you are tolerated (Saban) - as discussed here numerous times. Lose, and you won't be tolerated.

My "give a poop" got busted last season. And trust me, that takes a lot.
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307bball
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McPeachy wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 12:07 pm
307bball wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 11:54 am
LawPoke wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 10:55 am ..... if Bohl wasn't such an egotistical A$$, he might get a bit more grace.
I am hearing this so much and I'm legitimately confused by it. Do you all share a property line with him? Are you Family? I thought we wanted championships. From the content of so many of the messages here...Bohl's biggest problems are his arrogance, condescending attitude, and stubbornness. Are any of you going to look the other way on his record the last couple seasons if he was a Joe Glenn level nice guy?? If the answer is yes...then you and I are probably valuing different things. Nothing he has said or done in the media would be held against him if he was winning .... that is just the fact. He'd be viewed as a cantankerous rascally "ball-coach" and we would all love him.

He called last years team the best he's had .... is that coach-speak or did he actually believe that?...don't know and don't care. I care a great deal about the results though. And the results ... not great (lately).

If he can't maintain even the meager level of success from the last few years and becomes the most personable humble guy, he's going to get fired, no if's and's or but's.

If he deliver's a championship in the next two years and doubles down on the arrogance and condescension ... mark my words, we will be singing his praises.

Let's separate good coach/bad coach from the good guy/bad guy conversation. I'm willing to have both but it's dumb to keep equating them.
Speaking for myself...

There are plenty of examples to show what an A$$ he can be. From strictly closing practices, to snide comments about his own fanbase on the regular (i.e. little league coaches), to trashing players by name, to his handling of Covid / Playing Time / Senior Day / Transfer Portal / Stubbornness, and on and on and on. And yes, football coaches, can be asses, most of them. Win and you are tolerated (Saban) - as discussed here numerous times. Lose, and you won't be tolerated.

My "give a Sh#t" got busted last season. And trust me, that takes a lot.
I think I'm probably in the deep minority in how I consume sports. I don't follow almost anything on social media. I rarely watch press conferences. I don't follow recruiting. But I attend games as often as possible, watch almost every game that is televised (which, anymore, is most all of them), and hash and re-hash strategy with my circle of poke fan friends while grilling burgers at Washington Park before games. I'm a bit of a nut so I also began being active on this message board a few years back.

I think that explains why I'm insulated from the minutiae of Bohl's decisions around the stuff you mentioned....it's not really stuff I consume as a Cowboy's fan.

*I do follow notable cowboys after their college career is over..Josh Allen, Larry Nance Jr, Josh Adams, etc...
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307, if we had dropped to fcs and Bohl had a similar record, would you still think he is the best coach since Tiller?


What is becoming obvious is that Bohl is a good coach with Josh Allen and a not so good coach without Josh Allen.
WYO1016 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
Insults are the last resort of fools with a crumbling position.
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Point of reference for all those saying that Bohl said last year was his most talented team.

He never said that, he said it was "the deepest team" he's had at UW.

That's a lot of hidden coach speak there. To me, reading between the lines, what he said was: we don't have a lot of top end players, but we have a lot of similar-level guys that could be interchanged.

I could be wrong, but that's what I took from it all.
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WestWYOPoke wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 2:01 pm Point of reference for all those saying that Bohl said last year was his most talented team.

He never said that, he said it was "the deepest team" he's had at UW.

That's a lot of hidden coach speak there. To me, reading between the lines, what he said was: we don't have a lot of top end players, but we have a lot of similar-level guys that could be interchanged.

I could be wrong, but that's what I took from it all.
I will have to do some research...I swear I read it several times where the SumBitch said "most talented team" he has ever had at Wyoming.
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ragtimejoe1 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 1:25 pm 307, if we had dropped to fcs and Bohl had a similar record, would you still think he is the best coach since Tiller?


What is becoming obvious is that Bohl is a good coach with Josh Allen and a not so good coach without Josh Allen.
I guess I have no clue how to even rate that...Like...if we were in the Big Sky? I'm trying to rate like vs like. That's why I don't really fault Glenn for getting kicked around by the three teams that are no longer in the conference. Need something comparable to even make the comparison. I guess I would?...if we had dropped to FCS and had an identical record against those same teams (CSU, UNM, UNLV, SDSU, and AFA) ...that's a mind bender...that means that all of them would be FCS too? Maybe the best answer I can come up with to directly address your question is, I would not rank a .500 FCS coach over 8 years as better than Joe Glenn. If that same coach did better against that FBS group of teams than I suppose they would be a better coach. Not many FCS coaches would go over .500 against that group of teams if they played them 25+ times over 8 years.

Your question is kind of a version of "If Nick Saban was coaching in Laramie...what is the outcome?"

Not trying to dodge the question....it's very thought-provoking. Think about how Bohl was viewed before he took the Wyoming job. He was viewed as a great coach. Plenty of talented coach's in FCS and he pretty much dominated. I don't think any of that is a fluke. This is a very respected guy among his peers. He is currently the president of the American Football Coaches Association. Any single one of these facts do not make him a good coach but I think it's highly unlikely that a "bad" coach has that resume. Perhaps the skill set to coach the game of football is so different at the FCS level that it just makes no sense to afford respect to success at that level.

Look...I don't think anybody is crazy for thinking Glenn is a better coach. I disagree w/them for all the reasons I have laid out. Glenn definitely played in a conference with a much higher ceiling. I don't think the rest of the conference was way better back then. SDSU seems to be much better now. I think AFA is slightly better now...UNM is not as good as then but the as a group I think it's pretty consistent. Glenn did not fare well against that group. If you are a good coach you should have a better record than Glenn did against that bunch of teams.

So, if Bohl is at least a good football coach, what explains the poor performance at Wyoming? My thesis (and this also explains Glenn's poor record) is that there is something affecting wins and losses that the coach's, regardless of coaching acumen, are being affected by. You can call it market size, NIL opportunities, prestige, history, whatever...but some programs can roll out whomever they want as a coach and fall into 8+ victories per year. Now..if that is all they get...the coach will eventually get fired because those programs are aiming for titles...both conference and national. Wyoming is not on the happy side of that divide. Most of the MWC is not on the happy side of that divide. That divide runs through conferences though. I actually believe there is something going on in the athletic department as a whole that both Glenn and Bohl are suffering from. Whatever it took for Utah to get to where they are from where they were in the '90s, or whatever it took for BSU to get to where they are now....I don't think it was just good coaching....and whatever that is...it's not in Laramie.
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McPeachy wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 2:34 pm
WestWYOPoke wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 2:01 pm Point of reference for all those saying that Bohl said last year was his most talented team.

He never said that, he said it was "the deepest team" he's had at UW.

That's a lot of hidden coach speak there. To me, reading between the lines, what he said was: we don't have a lot of top end players, but we have a lot of similar-level guys that could be interchanged.

I could be wrong, but that's what I took from it all.
I will have to do some research...I swear I read it several times where the SumBitch said "most talented team" he has ever had at Wyoming.
Deepest feels right. I don't think bohl would have the guts to say "most talented". the JA year, he did say "the calvary is coming". I agree, deepest could just mean there wouldn't be a dropoff with the 2 and 3 deep even though they're all mediocre.
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307, it was merely asking if you'd view the record differently if in fcs regardless of teams.

If the answer is yes, then you would be judging that coach based on schedule/conference. We would agree on that but disagree on where to draw the lines of comparison.
WYO1016 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
Insults are the last resort of fools with a crumbling position.
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ragtimejoe1 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 4:25 pm 307, it was merely asking if you'd view the record differently if in fcs regardless of teams.

If the answer is yes, then you would be judging that coach based on schedule/conference. We would agree on that but disagree on where to draw the lines of comparison.
Oh...then yeah. Going .500 in the MWC is less impressive than going .500 in the SEC...both are more impressive than going .500 in the big sky.

Not all numerically equivalent winning percentages are created equal.
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307bball wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 5:04 pm
ragtimejoe1 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 4:25 pm 307, it was merely asking if you'd view the record differently if in fcs regardless of teams.

If the answer is yes, then you would be judging that coach based on schedule/conference. We would agree on that but disagree on where to draw the lines of comparison.
Oh...then yeah. Going .500 in the MWC is less impressive than going .500 in the SEC...both are more impressive than going .500 in the big sky.

Not all numerically equivalent winning percentages are created equal.
Then we really don't disagree on sos/conference strength relative to performance. We just disagree on how significant a difference the old MWC was compared to today.
WYO1016 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
Insults are the last resort of fools with a crumbling position.
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Last year - in conference at home - versus CFB powerhouses New Mexico, Hawaii, and Fresno St, we scored the grand total of 17 points. Throw in road losses to San Jose St. (they may as well be TCU as far as Bohl is concerned) and Air Force and I think it's fair to say that even Vic would be embarrassed by the results. Hell, at least Vic's teams scored once in a while.
I know were not getting rid of the guy - but we should. Disaster is coming this year. Our record might look a lot like Bohl's first year. I don't know what the over/under is on our win total for 2022. But if it's more than 4, I'll be betting the under.
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ragtimejoe1 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 6:59 pm
307bball wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 5:04 pm
ragtimejoe1 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 4:25 pm 307, it was merely asking if you'd view the record differently if in fcs regardless of teams.

If the answer is yes, then you would be judging that coach based on schedule/conference. We would agree on that but disagree on where to draw the lines of comparison.
Oh...then yeah. Going .500 in the MWC is less impressive than going .500 in the SEC...both are more impressive than going .500 in the big sky.

Not all numerically equivalent winning percentages are created equal.
Then we really don't disagree on sos/conference strength relative to performance. We just disagree on how significant a difference the old MWC was compared to today.
You are really making me think about this Ragtime...How about this? Who is the better coach? Is it the guy leading the .500 MWC team? what about the guy leading the .500 SEC team? If the .500 SEC team played the .500 SEC team...I think the SEC team would be better but does that mean he's a better coach?

What is harder to accomplish? A run like North Dakota State has put together since 2011? Or what Alabama has done since 2011?. ...both seem pretty difficult.

For me Old MWC > Today's MWC....because the top third of the conference was so much better than the top third of the modern MWC. The rest? Probably not equal but I'm not putting much space between them.
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I look at it pretty simply, both struggle(d) to beat teams in the top 75 (or something--i don't recall the exact cutoff value here). I think the non-Josh years are more of an indication of what we can expect from Bohl (obviously unless he finds another Josh). Both coaches are essentially guaranteed losses when playing teams in the top 60 (or so, again, I don't recall the exact number). That metric is probably pretty consistent across years. Glenn had more teams above that and Bohl has more teams at or below that level.
WYO1016 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
Insults are the last resort of fools with a crumbling position.
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ragtimejoe1 wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 1:25 pm I look at it pretty simply, both struggle(d) to beat teams in the top 75 (or something--i don't recall the exact cutoff value here). I think the non-Josh years are more of an indication of what we can expect from Bohl (obviously unless he finds another Josh). Both coaches are essentially guaranteed losses when playing teams in the top 60 (or so, again, I don't recall the exact number). That metric is probably pretty consistent across years. Glenn had more teams above that and Bohl has more teams at or below that level.
So to summarize...Glenn is better than or equal to Bohl as long as Bohl does not have Josh Allen? Is that about your position?

It's definitely logical. The problem is...you can't say Bohl gets no credit for wins while JA was under center...What if we add a great player to Glenn's tenure (and it's not like he had a bunch of duds)? to me, that is just as logical as seperating out the JA years from Bohl's resume. Does Glenn get better or worse? It would be an odd situation if you reverse a spike in talent (either up or down) and it would have no impact on competitive results. Glenn had the guys he had.....Bohl has the guys he has. This is a version of me asking others to do the thought experiment of placing Nick saban in Laramie. If you try too hard to reduce the outside variables on coaching performance then everybody reverts to the mean.

I'll continue to consider the entirety of both guys tenure. As I've said ... I'm predicting this ends badly for Bohl just like it ended badly for Glenn.

I think both coaches have been at the helm long enough that we are not having a sample size issue.

Also...what is your answer to the question about who would be the better coach...the .500 MWC coach vs the .500 SEC coach? I honestly can't see an obvious answer.
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307bball wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 3:20 pm So to summarize...Glenn is better than or equal to Bohl as long as Bohl does not have Josh Allen? Is that about your position?

It's definitely logical. The problem is...you can't say Bohl gets no credit for wins while JA was under center...What if we add a great player to Glenn's tenure (and it's not like he had a bunch of duds)? to me, that is just as logical as seperating out the JA years from Bohl's resume. Does Glenn get better or worse? It would be an odd situation if you reverse a spike in talent (either up or down) and it would have no impact on competitive results. Glenn had the guys he had.....Bohl has the guys he has. This is a version of me asking others to do the thought experiment of placing Nick saban in Laramie. If you try too hard to reduce the outside variables on coaching performance then everybody reverts to the mean.
Of course Bohl gets credit for JA just like Bohl gets credit for his first two years. Two of the worst years in WYO football history. However, I don't think the first 2 years are indicative of his program just like I don't think JA years are indicative of his program. I'm not removing all the good players, just 1 that I view as an outlier. I think the last few years are a good measuring stick for Bohl's program and the direction we will continue on. So yeah, I think Bohl's overall programs are equal to or perhaps less than Glenn. I'll acknowledge that it is like splitting hairs.
307bball wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 3:20 pm
Also...what is your answer to the question about who would be the better coach...the .500 MWC coach vs the .500 SEC coach? I honestly can't see an obvious answer.
It really depends and that is where resources come into play. If they were a perennial loser in the SEC, grossly underfunded relative to even the bottom of the conference, and received no enhanced commitment, then .500 in the SEC would be one hell of an accomplishment. If top of the funded at the top of the league level and .500, then the coach probably won't last long and probably is not a good coach or at least not a good coach in that situation. Hundreds of successful G5 coaches make the jump only to fail. Are they bad coaches? I honestly don't know, but it is clear they aren't good coaches in that situation.

For the MWC, the .500 hurdle isn't as high. The commitment would matter, but I'd expect even low level programs could achieve .500. That one is a little tougher because it doesn't take much of a team to be .500 in the MWC.
WYO1016 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
Insults are the last resort of fools with a crumbling position.
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ragtimejoe1 wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 8:16 pm

Of course Bohl gets credit for JA just like Bohl gets credit for his first two years. Two of the worst years in WYO football history. However, I don't think the first 2 years are indicative of his program just like I don't think JA years are indicative of his program. I'm not removing all the good players, just 1 that I view as an outlier. I think the last few years are a good measuring stick for Bohl's program and the direction we will continue on. So yeah, I think Bohl's overall programs are equal to or perhaps less than Glenn. I'll acknowledge that it is like splitting hairs.

I'm picking up what you are putting down.

I made some observations about Bohl's record without the first two years and the COVID year and was accused of "only analyzing the good years". I wasn't trying to hide Bohl's faults but I realize that once you start making judgement calls about what years are indicative of a coaches ability and what years are not... It gets real subjective real fast.
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