Bohls press conference....

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WyoVaquero
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He was pissed off today about everything, which he should be. But he seemed to still make excuses for the passing game.
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LanderPoke
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LanderPoke
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I watched it. It’s honestly all blah blah bs until he gets new coaches. Coming back with the same people will produce the same results. We CANNOT have the same results as the last four years and six of seven.

The players and fans deserve better than what Bohl and Vigen are giving us on offense. I trust Bohl and think he offers a lot. Vigen offers NOTHING of value. Let him go already.
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LawPoke
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LanderPoke wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:29 pm I watched it. It’s honestly all blah blah bs until he gets new coaches. Coming back with the same people will produce the same results. We CANNOT have the same results as the last four years and six of seven.

The players and fans deserve better than what Bohl and Vigen are giving us on offense. I trust Bohl and think he offers a lot. Vigen offers NOTHING of value. Let him go already.
Agree. Yadda yadda yadda, smoke, mirrors, deflection, excuses.

For any season: Look at the numbers. Look at the offensive production. Look at Yards Per Pass after throwing out the outliers on the high and low end (or not). Look at a simple stat like number of completions in an entire game. Look at the 3rd down conversion percentage. Hell, watch 4 random series from 2020 and tell me if you see a pattern, Craig. Our receivers have sucked since Gentry and crew left and our playcalling is as predictable as a 750 lb man having health issues.

During the Boise game, I recall where the announcers called the play before it happened. 3rd and manageable and we sneak our depleted QB into the teeth of the perimeter of a fast and aggressive defense. Not so ironically, at the same moment the braintrust on CBS was dialing Vigen in, my ten year old came in from another room and called the same play before it happened and he had not overheard the announcers. My wife, who is not exactly astute in the ways of X's and O's, can call the play generally (i.e. run up the gut, QB sneak, etc.) more than 75% of the time. If a ten year old and a 42 year old housewife know what is coming in our offense, perhaps the likes of Rocky Long might have a hunch too. Strange that those numbers I mentioned earlier are so anemic. Truly strange.

Craig can deflect and analyze and talk about hands in the dirt and dedication all he wants. But the issue here is as ugly as a CSU co-ed and as apparent as the wart on the end of her nose...the question is whether Craig has the will to do something about it. He can coach fortitude, stamina and toughness all he wants...but can he act with the same toughness that he demands of his players. Firing people is never easy, but it is part of being a CEO. It worked with Stannard and our defense. Until he drops the kid gloves with his favored assistants, the sun will continue to rise and set on a team that enters each season with great potential and fizzles when it matters most...squandering great defenses, a generational RB and our awesome walk on placekicker. Rinse, lather, repeat...or in the parlance of the topic at hand...run, run, pass, punt.
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LanderPoke
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LawPoke wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:38 am
LanderPoke wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:29 pm I watched it. It’s honestly all blah blah bs until he gets new coaches. Coming back with the same people will produce the same results. We CANNOT have the same results as the last four years and six of seven.

The players and fans deserve better than what Bohl and Vigen are giving us on offense. I trust Bohl and think he offers a lot. Vigen offers NOTHING of value. Let him go already.
Agree. Yadda yadda yadda, smoke, mirrors, deflection, excuses.
My wife, who is not exactly astute in the ways of X's and O's, can call the play generally "run up the gut, QB sneak, etc.) more than 75% of the time. If a ten year old and a 42 year old housewife know what is coming in our offense, perhaps the likes of Rocky Long might have a hunch too. Strange that those numbers I mentioned earlier are so anemic. Truly strange.
:rofl:
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LawPoke wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:38 am
LanderPoke wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:29 pm I watched it. It’s honestly all blah blah bs until he gets new coaches. Coming back with the same people will produce the same results. We CANNOT have the same results as the last four years and six of seven.

The players and fans deserve better than what Bohl and Vigen are giving us on offense. I trust Bohl and think he offers a lot. Vigen offers NOTHING of value. Let him go already.
During the Boise game, I recall where the announcers called the play before it happened. 3rd and manageable and we sneak our depleted QB into the teeth of the perimeter of a fast and aggressive defense.
And then proceeded to run the same play at least 3 more times in the game in the exact same situation. Vigen is not an OC.

I really hope we hear some staff announcements after we get the early class all signed up, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
307bball
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PokeNer wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:15 am
LawPoke wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:38 am
LanderPoke wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:29 pm I watched it. It’s honestly all blah blah bs until he gets new coaches. Coming back with the same people will produce the same results. We CANNOT have the same results as the last four years and six of seven.

The players and fans deserve better than what Bohl and Vigen are giving us on offense. I trust Bohl and think he offers a lot. Vigen offers NOTHING of value. Let him go already.
During the Boise game, I recall where the announcers called the play before it happened. 3rd and manageable and we sneak our depleted QB into the teeth of the perimeter of a fast and aggressive defense.
And then proceeded to run the same play at least 3 more times in the game in the exact same situation. Vigen is not an OC.

I really hope we hear some staff announcements after we get the early class all signed up, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
FWIW...most people who watch football can get to somewhere north of 70% on basic call prediction based on down and distance and familiarity with the team. That is not necessarily the problem. The problem is in the plays not working. If you look back at Oregon during the Chip Kelley heyday...it was shocking how they did literally the same thing over and over ... to the point that it was comical. All of the successful teams do this. Can't remember the coach (maybe it was an analyst)...basically said that play variety is wildly overrated...everybody is trying to do basically the same thing. Namely, create a structure of around 5 plays (within which there are varying routes or blocking schemes) and get so good at them that the defense begins to react to them in a way that allows chunk plays when you finally throw a changeup at them. The best example of this is when you see AFA successfully running their game plan on somebody. It is basically a dive, qb keeper, or a pitch (or a flipped version of one of those three). Very predictable but very hard to stop. If you are able to stop those basic plays...no matter what they call after that has almost no hope of succeeding. That is the problem with Vigen's system. It does not succeed at the basic stuff. Now against truly terrible teams it doesn't seem to matter but anybody with a pulse defensively will render the basics of Vigen's playbook ineffective and then no matter what play gets called...it won't succeed.

TLDR: Vigen's scheme or the players are so bad that they are unable to make the basics of this offense functional regardless of whether the play is predictable or not. My money is the the problem is 90% Vigen
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307bball wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:46 am
PokeNer wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:15 am
LawPoke wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:38 am
LanderPoke wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:29 pm I watched it. It’s honestly all blah blah bs until he gets new coaches. Coming back with the same people will produce the same results. We CANNOT have the same results as the last four years and six of seven.

The players and fans deserve better than what Bohl and Vigen are giving us on offense. I trust Bohl and think he offers a lot. Vigen offers NOTHING of value. Let him go already.
During the Boise game, I recall where the announcers called the play before it happened. 3rd and manageable and we sneak our depleted QB into the teeth of the perimeter of a fast and aggressive defense.
And then proceeded to run the same play at least 3 more times in the game in the exact same situation. Vigen is not an OC.

I really hope we hear some staff announcements after we get the early class all signed up, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
FWIW...most people who watch football can get to somewhere north of 70% on basic call prediction based on down and distance and familiarity with the team. That is not necessarily the problem. The problem is in the plays not working. If you look back at Oregon during the Chip Kelley heyday...it was shocking how they did literally the same thing over and over ... to the point that it was comical. All of the successful teams do this. Can't remember the coach (maybe it was an analyst)...basically said that play variety is wildly overrated...everybody is trying to do basically the same thing. Namely, create a structure of around 5 plays (within which there are varying routes or blocking schemes) and get so good at them that the defense begins to react to them in a way that allows chunk plays when you finally throw a changeup at them. The best example of this is when you see AFA successfully running their game plan on somebody. It is basically a dive, qb keeper, or a pitch (or a flipped version of one of those three). Very predictable but very hard to stop. If you are able to stop those basic plays...no matter what they call after that has almost no hope of succeeding. That is the problem with Vigen's system. It does not succeed at the basic stuff. Now against truly terrible teams it doesn't seem to matter but anybody with a pulse defensively will render the basics of Vigen's playbook ineffective and then no matter what play gets called...it won't succeed.

TLDR: Vigen's scheme or the players are so bad that they are unable to make the basics of this offense functional regardless of whether the play is predictable or not. My money is the the problem is 90% Vigen
You hit a lot of important points but saying this is '90% Vigen' is not correct in my opinion. Bohl is the head coach and ultimately he has final say on the shape of the offense and play calling. Vigen is Bohl because that is how Bohl has chosen to handle and manage the team.

One additional problem that I have noticed consistently over the years is an unwillingness to adapt the play calling to the players on the field and their relative strengths. An example of the many over the years is Levi Williams struggles and injury against Boise. Whether Williams should have even been on the field last week is a whole other story. But regardless of that question, the routes that were being called were very similar to the routes we have seen the past 7 years. If Williams can't get the ball there, what is the point of even running that play??? You have to adjust and dial back the play calling from a simplicity standpoint (i.e. try shorter simpler throws that get the playmakers in space). You have to maximize the skills that you have on the field. This requires an ability to adjust (it doesn't mean you have to change the offense...you can call virtually the same play with a differente route tree).

I'm just another armchair pop warner coach but it was apparent that Williams was set up to fail last week. That is on the coaches and is so disappointing. A player's confidence and future might have been ruined by those decisions. I hope not.
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OrediggerPoke wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:06 pm
307bball wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:46 am
PokeNer wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:15 am
LawPoke wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:38 am
LanderPoke wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:29 pm I watched it. It’s honestly all blah blah bs until he gets new coaches. Coming back with the same people will produce the same results. We CANNOT have the same results as the last four years and six of seven.

The players and fans deserve better than what Bohl and Vigen are giving us on offense. I trust Bohl and think he offers a lot. Vigen offers NOTHING of value. Let him go already.
During the Boise game, I recall where the announcers called the play before it happened. 3rd and manageable and we sneak our depleted QB into the teeth of the perimeter of a fast and aggressive defense.
And then proceeded to run the same play at least 3 more times in the game in the exact same situation. Vigen is not an OC.

I really hope we hear some staff announcements after we get the early class all signed up, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
FWIW...most people who watch football can get to somewhere north of 70% on basic call prediction based on down and distance and familiarity with the team. That is not necessarily the problem. The problem is in the plays not working. If you look back at Oregon during the Chip Kelley heyday...it was shocking how they did literally the same thing over and over ... to the point that it was comical. All of the successful teams do this. Can't remember the coach (maybe it was an analyst)...basically said that play variety is wildly overrated...everybody is trying to do basically the same thing. Namely, create a structure of around 5 plays (within which there are varying routes or blocking schemes) and get so good at them that the defense begins to react to them in a way that allows chunk plays when you finally throw a changeup at them. The best example of this is when you see AFA successfully running their game plan on somebody. It is basically a dive, qb keeper, or a pitch (or a flipped version of one of those three). Very predictable but very hard to stop. If you are able to stop those basic plays...no matter what they call after that has almost no hope of succeeding. That is the problem with Vigen's system. It does not succeed at the basic stuff. Now against truly terrible teams it doesn't seem to matter but anybody with a pulse defensively will render the basics of Vigen's playbook ineffective and then no matter what play gets called...it won't succeed.

TLDR: Vigen's scheme or the players are so bad that they are unable to make the basics of this offense functional regardless of whether the play is predictable or not. My money is the the problem is 90% Vigen
You hit a lot of important points but saying this is '90% Vigen' is not correct in my opinion. Bohl is the head coach and ultimately he has final say on the shape of the offense and play calling. Vigen is Bohl because that is how Bohl has chosen to handle and manage the team.

One additional problem that I have noticed consistently over the years is an unwillingness to adapt the play calling to the players on the field and their relative strengths. An example of the many over the years is Levi Williams struggles and injury against Boise. Whether Williams should have even been on the field last week is a whole other story. But regardless of that question, the routes that were being called were very similar to the routes we have seen the past 7 years. If Williams can't get the ball there, what is the point of even running that play??? You have to adjust and dial back the play calling from a simplicity standpoint (i.e. try shorter simpler throws that get the playmakers in space). You have to maximize the skills that you have on the field. This requires an ability to adjust (it doesn't mean you have to change the offense...you can call virtually the same play with a differente route tree).

I'm just another armchair pop warner coach but it was apparent that Williams was set up to fail last week. That is on the coaches and is so disappointing. A player's confidence and future might have been ruined by those decisions. I hope not.
Dude, didn't you listen to Bohl? They were prepared for Chambers, but him going down on the 3rd play of the season has changed what they can and cannot do on offense. They are still evaluating what Williams can handle. Cause, you know, 6+ weeks of having Williams as a starter, including two bye weeks, isn't enough time. /s
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307bball wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:46 am
PokeNer wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:15 am
LawPoke wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:38 am
LanderPoke wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:29 pm I watched it. It’s honestly all blah blah bs until he gets new coaches. Coming back with the same people will produce the same results. We CANNOT have the same results as the last four years and six of seven.

The players and fans deserve better than what Bohl and Vigen are giving us on offense. I trust Bohl and think he offers a lot. Vigen offers NOTHING of value. Let him go already.
During the Boise game, I recall where the announcers called the play before it happened. 3rd and manageable and we sneak our depleted QB into the teeth of the perimeter of a fast and aggressive defense.
And then proceeded to run the same play at least 3 more times in the game in the exact same situation. Vigen is not an OC.

I really hope we hear some staff announcements after we get the early class all signed up, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
FWIW...most people who watch football can get to somewhere north of 70% on basic call prediction based on down and distance and familiarity with the team. That is not necessarily the problem. The problem is in the plays not working. If you look back at Oregon during the Chip Kelley heyday...it was shocking how they did literally the same thing over and over ... to the point that it was comical. All of the successful teams do this. Can't remember the coach (maybe it was an analyst)...basically said that play variety is wildly overrated...everybody is trying to do basically the same thing. Namely, create a structure of around 5 plays (within which there are varying routes or blocking schemes) and get so good at them that the defense begins to react to them in a way that allows chunk plays when you finally throw a changeup at them. The best example of this is when you see AFA successfully running their game plan on somebody. It is basically a dive, qb keeper, or a pitch (or a flipped version of one of those three). Very predictable but very hard to stop. If you are able to stop those basic plays...no matter what they call after that has almost no hope of succeeding. That is the problem with Vigen's system. It does not succeed at the basic stuff. Now against truly terrible teams it doesn't seem to matter but anybody with a pulse defensively will render the basics of Vigen's playbook ineffective and then no matter what play gets called...it won't succeed.

TLDR: Vigen's scheme or the players are so bad that they are unable to make the basics of this offense functional regardless of whether the play is predictable or not. My money is the the problem is 90% Vigen
I think you are absolutely correct. Most offenses don't have that many different sets. What they have is repetition that achieves (1) the ability to break loose on one play with a missed tackle or assignment; (2) the ability to wear down a defense mentally or physically; and (3) the ability to surprise the defense with a big play that alters from the script (play action, etc.). Our problem is that they know to put 8 to 11 in the box to address 1 and 2 - with no fear that we have any ability to execute 3 (we don't have the ability or the playmakers). And they know Vigen may not have (1) the authority; or (2) the skill to make they pay as a defense.
307bball
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OrediggerPoke wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:06 pm You hit a lot of important points but saying this is '90% Vigen' is not correct in my opinion. Bohl is the head coach and ultimately he has final say on the shape of the offense and play calling. Vigen is Bohl because that is how Bohl has chosen to handle and manage the team.
You are right Oredigger, my comment was not to suggest that Bohl is not where the buck stops. I merely meant that ~90% of the problem with the scheme is centered on Vigen IMO....Bohl is ultimately responsible for sticking with it though.
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PokeNer wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:42 pm Dude, didn't you listen to Bohl? They were prepared for Chambers, but him going down on the 3rd play of the season has changed what they can and cannot do on offense. They are still evaluating what Williams can handle. Cause, you know, 6+ weeks of having Williams as a starter, including two bye weeks, isn't enough time. /s
I'm pretty sure you are being a bit tongue in cheek with this remark....but I did want to say..
I'm not prepared to give Bohl a pass on the season because of the injury...But I was in the minority after the injury who was not comforted at all by having Levi as the next guy up. The guy did have a pretty good bowl game at the end of last season But I felt like Chambers was by far the better option this year. I believed at the time that losing Chambers was a huge deal and I still think that to be the case....doesn't excuse the offense from being as cruddy as it was though. I think the comments Bohl made when he had both QB's healthy before the season about using them both was classic coach-speak...Maybe he really believed it though. We will ultimately never know what this years team would have looked like with Chambers under center. My opinion (completely just my opinion here) is that his running ability was a dimension that defenses would have had to account for in a way the Levi could not match...and when it surfaced that, with Levi under Center, our passing game was terrible...Well...you get the product that we got. This is ultimately still a failure of Bohl/Vigen.

Side note...did anybody watch the Clemson-Notre Dame game where Trevor Lawrence had to sit out?...That backup to Lawrence was amazing...they did not lose that game because of him...that is what it's like to actually have a backup that can step in.
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