OT: Could 2020 just end now!!!!!!

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ragtimejoe1
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I don't care about either party. It's a fact that the Democratic symbol is equal to the Confederate flag in that era. They stood for the same thing at the same time.

I'm just pointing out the extreme hypocrisy of the cancel culture.

For the rest, it isn't worth bringing up in this environment.
WYO1016 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
Insults are the last resort of fools with a crumbling position.
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WestWYOPoke
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I agree that the Democratic party is responsible for slavery, KKK, etc. But in the 1860s, Democrats were conservatives, Republicans were liberals. So those of you that vote R today would be Democrats if you suddenly time traveled to 1860. Same as how in the 1770s conservatives were Tories. The guys at the Boston Tea Party and supporting a rebellion were liberals.

So yes, technically the Democratic party has an ugly history but ideology matters as well.
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ragtimejoe1
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WestWYOPoke wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:03 pm I agree that the Democratic party is responsible for slavery, KKK, etc. But in the 1860s, Democrats were conservatives, Republicans were liberals. So those of you that vote R today would be Democrats if you suddenly time traveled to 1860. Same as how in the 1770s conservatives were Tories. The guys at the Boston Tea Party and supporting a rebellion were liberals.

So yes, technically the Democratic party has an ugly history but ideology matters as well.
So you are saying the Democratic party is judged by the actions of the party since the 60s or 70s and not by historical actions long ago? Interesting concept.
WYO1016 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
Insults are the last resort of fools with a crumbling position.
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Asmodeanreborn
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ragtimejoe1 wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:43 pm I don't care about either party. It's a fact that the Democratic symbol is equal to the Confederate flag in that era. They stood for the same thing at the same time.

I'm just pointing out the extreme hypocrisy of the cancel culture.

For the rest, it isn't worth bringing up in this environment.
Was the Democratic symbol carried into the war? The Confederate Battle Flag was. I do think you have a point in that Democrats would not do bad by rebranding with their symbols, but there's definitely some false equivalency going on here.

Speaking of the Confederate Battle Flag - I still have a hard time figuring out how people can claim that the flag of something that existed for all of 5 years is somehow about heritage? And I do realize that there was significant resources and effort in white-washing it all throughout the years, including the whole "states' rights" argument (something not even mentioned by most states as they seceded).
ragtimejoe1
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If one chooses to look back through history and find things to be offended by, that person should find no shortage of events that are offensive by today's standards.

How same is it to do so? I guess based on current affairs, it is very much acceptable.
WYO1016 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
Insults are the last resort of fools with a crumbling position.
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Asmodeanreborn
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ragtimejoe1 wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:54 am If one chooses to look back through history and find things to be offended by, that person should find no shortage of events that are offensive by today's standards.

How same is it to do so? I guess based on current affairs, it is very much acceptable.
I definitely think people get offended too easily, but I 100% sympathize with black people in Tennessee being upset about celebrating Nathan Bedford Forrest. The _only_ reason to lift him up is white supremacy.

But sure, look too deep, and suddenly you have to stop celebrating Jefferson and Washington.
ragtimejoe1
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Or the statue of Lenin in Seattle.
WYO1016 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
Insults are the last resort of fools with a crumbling position.
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'PokeForLife
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Wyokie wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:30 pm
Asmodeanreborn wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:00 pm Completely unrelated to BLM - I wish we could get rid of ALL things Christopher Columbus. Even if you make the argument that they didn't know better back then, and that it wasn't intentional genocide, bragging about and giving tips for pedophilia isn't exactly kosher either.
Completely agree plus get rid of Columbus Day as well.
The Columbus hating these days is absolute crap. Are you guys kidding me? The guy did some of the most important acts in human history.
These lies about him being genocidal and racist are completely out of line. He was arrested and taken back to Spain after his third voyage -- NOT for abusing natives, but for punishing other Europeans for abusing natives. He adopted a native. "But the population of North America was 20 million and within a few hundred years it was 2 million!" Yes -- and the vast majority of that was due to disease. Not Columbus's fault. "But he had slaves!" Yeah, so did the natives (interestingly, there were five Indian nations who allied with the confederates -- Cherokee, Chocktaw, Chickasaw, Muscogee, and Seminole -- and all had slavery abolished for them in..... 1866). And so did every society in the world have slavery.
Its as if people try to hold Columbus responsible for their dog dying, their wife and kids leaving them, and every other bad thing that has ever happened in this country.
WyoBrandX
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ragtimejoe1 wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:10 am
WyoBrandX wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:32 pm
ragtimejoe1 wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:04 am @WyoBrandX

Horse crap. COVID restrictions are for everyone but protesters. Either COVID restrictions are necessary and should be enforced or not.

Look at the pictures. The protests are not following guidelines yet governors, media, etc are supporting them.

Pandemics don't work like that. You either have a pandemic that requires measures enforced EQUALLY or you do not. It is cut and dry science. Virus doesn't give a damn about societal issues. It's either a pandemic or it's not.

Let the protesters protest but give the exact same non enforcement of COVID restrictions to everything else. End all COVID restrictions other than "suggesting" 6' spacing and wearing a mask. End all mandates. Period.

Allowing the protests is putting millions at risk depriving their right to live OR the restrictions are unnecessary and should be criminal for crashing the economy, financially devastating millions, etc.

There simply is no grey area here. It is or it isn't.
At the end of the day, there is a significant portion of this country that is more susceptible to COVID-19 because of their social status. There is also a significant portion that is more susceptible to police violence for many of the same reasons. Hell, I saw the protesters calling out Derick Colling the other day.
Still a load of BS. Laws or regulations are what they are and for everyone or not. The virus infects all and is indiscriminate of social status; that's a fact and science.

Either a governor fully enforces restrictions for all or not. There is no grey area. It is a pandemic that requires these measures or it is not. Wyoming still has 250 people limit which was clearly violated in Casper and the protests were supported by the local municipalities by not enforcing COVID restrictions.

I'm not saying the protests should be shut down. I'm saying if COVID isn't a big enough deal to shut them down, then COVID isn't a big enough of a deal to shut anything down or have any restrictions just suggestions.
Why are you here?

People are terrible. They will always try to dominate you at any chance they get.

What makes you tick?

We get to breath this green air on earth because of a hell of alot of biological functions. You can believe god provided that, and you can believe it just happened. Regardless, here we are - inhaling the air. Drinking the water. Staying nutrient efficent.

You, just as well as me, and everyone else has a limited time on this earth. The animals, critters, sealife, and everything that has ever existed has too.

We are trying an experiment for the last 2,000 years - and thats living in harmony with each other. Its not working well. We are definitely killing off a bunch of critters.

Do you support your fellow human living and succeeding - or do you not care that they die for simple reasons we should have taken care of years ago?

Do you want society to grow - into big areas, where we do live better with the environment? Or do you just want everyone dead?

I kill most of what I eat. I grow the other part of it. And i get some poop from the grocery store now and then.
I'm starting to think your a pizza roll eating guy that doesn't give two poop about fellow man. If anything, your one very selfish individual, and you are only focused on the ol' mighty dollar.

The best thing we can do now - like we did in the 1890's, 1870's and all that, it just be there for everyone.

But your just one of those people that want to climb to the top.

Learn to be nice RTJ. Thats all i got.
WyoBrandX
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LanderPoke wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:54 pm "We think we treat black people good in wyoming. But we don't."

Get out of here with that Sh#t. Utter nonsense
Fair enough. I'm white (well actually african). You could have been a bit nicer. I bet you think small government is like mom and pop. We need them to tell us whats wrong or right.

So f-word stupid. Rethink things a bit. Look at how the world works. Thing is, we are terrible to almost everyone besides ourself. Get out of that mindset LanderPoke (I like you). This world only exists because we are people.
WyoBrandX
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Asmodeanreborn wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:06 pm
WyoBrandX wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:06 pm
LanderPoke wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:54 pm "We think we treat black people good in wyoming. But we don't."

Get out of here with that Sh#t. Utter nonsense
You and I do try to treat everyone right. Its not you and me I'm worried about.
Doesn't seem like that long ago that those Wyotech kids drove around with the noose and taunted black kids in Laramie.
Yeah, that is terrible. Should not have ever happened. It did. The black guys didn't revolt. Why? The criminal justice system would have been very rough on them.

Think about that.

If your in the same spot, and people were demonstrating hanging you high - or hanging your race high, or your gender high, how would you feel about it?

Guess what? You revolt? You do something that was almost equivelent of what someone did to you? And now you are in jail for a long long time.
ragtimejoe1
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WyoBrandX wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:19 pm
Why are you here?

People are terrible. They will always try to dominate you at any chance they get.

What makes you tick?

We get to breath this green air on earth because of a hell of alot of biological functions. You can believe god provided that, and you can believe it just happened. Regardless, here we are - inhaling the air. Drinking the water. Staying nutrient efficent.

You, just as well as me, and everyone else has a limited time on this earth. The animals, critters, sealife, and everything that has ever existed has too.

We are trying an experiment for the last 2,000 years - and thats living in harmony with each other. Its not working well. We are definitely killing off a bunch of critters.

Do you support your fellow human living and succeeding - or do you not care that they die for simple reasons we should have taken care of years ago?

Do you want society to grow - into big areas, where we do live better with the environment? Or do you just want everyone dead?

I kill most of what I eat. I grow the other part of it. And i get some Sh#t from the grocery store now and then.
I'm starting to think your a pizza roll eating guy that doesn't give two sh#t[#] about fellow man. If anything, your one very selfish individual, and you are only focused on the ol' mighty dollar.

The best thing we can do now - like we did in the 1890's, 1870's and all that, it just be there for everyone.

But your just one of those people that want to climb to the top.

Learn to be nice RTJ. Thats all i got.
lol. I'm not sure what all that diatribe is about, but to sum it up, I have a BS filter. Enforcing COVID restrictions on one hand while endorsing riots/protests on another is BS.

It is pretty simple. If the COVID pandemic is as bad as advertised and worth crashing the economy throwing people into poverty (we haven't seen anything yet), but not bad enough to stop protests, then that is BS. If people can protest without fear of COVID fallout, then people can do everything else without fear of COVID or the government is allowing protests which is endangering millions from potential COVID complications. Pretty clear, if governments ease restrictions or enforcement of restrictions for protests, they need to do it for everyone.

As for the rest, I'm not even sure what you are talking about, but I'm glad you appear to be over your COVID case. I will say, you aren't even remotely close in characterizing me. I won't say anymore because in today's day and age, you never know what will be taken out of context leading you to be the victim of the next witch hunt.
WYO1016 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
Insults are the last resort of fools with a crumbling position.
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LanderPoke
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Nothing wrong with Columbus
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LanderPoke
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WyoBrandX wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:24 pm
LanderPoke wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:54 pm "We think we treat black people good in wyoming. But we don't."

Get out of here with that Sh#t. Utter nonsense
Fair enough. I'm white (well actually african). You could have been a bit nicer. I bet you think small government is like mom and pop. We need them to tell us whats wrong or right.

So f##k[#] stupid. Rethink things a bit. Look at how the world works. Thing is, we are terrible to almost everyone besides ourself. Get out of that mindset LanderPoke (I like you). This world only exists biecause we are people.
I like you, too. I just don't think it's your place to tell others that they treat black people poorly when they don't. I don't treat blacks any different from anyone else and it makes me mad when people tell me I do. 99.9% of people here are like me. Good people and not racist
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Asmodeanreborn
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LanderPoke wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:13 pm Nothing wrong with Columbus

I know the Catholic Church has spent a crap ton on white washing his reputation throughout the past few decades, but anybody who's nonchalantly speaking about kidnapping and raping 9-10 year old native girls does have something incredibly wrong with them.

Then there's the whole thing about telling the Taino that anybody 14 and over not delivering a certain amount of gold dust every three months would have their hands cut off - and actually following through with it. That was his orders, not anybody else's. In fact, this was directly AGAINST the King and Queen's orders.

But yeah, it's all an anti-Catholic conspiracy to talk about his crimes, and he really wasn't all that bad. It was the men who went with him!

Except we still have plenty of letters from him that the Catholic Church did NOT gain control over.
In fact, here's a translation of a bunch of them:
https://archive.org/stream/christophercolu02thacgoog

But sure, Columbus did a lot of good for the world, like... uh... praying to the Saints for intercession? North America would've been "found" either way rather quickly, as there were plenty of other expeditions gathering resources and money. John Cabot "found" Canada in 1497, but the expedition was an idea formed well before Columbus made it to the Bahamas.

If you somehow STILL don't think Columbus was a monster, I recommend you read some eye witness testimony from Bartolome de las Casas. I know we should not judge people who lived 500 years ago based off of our current state of affairs, but if you compare people to their contemporaries and they still come off as sadistic bastards, you probably shouldn't be celebrating them.
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Columbus and his men gave the Natives smallpox which wiped out whole tribes. The Carib Tribe whom the Caribbean Sea is named after died out in the months and years after they met Columbus.

By the way, the Natives on this side of the world kinda got their revenge on the whites. First cases of syphilis in Europe came out months after Columbus returned from America.

Asmadeanreborn, I'm impressed with your post above regarding actual historical facts on Columbus and his treatment of the Natives. He was also a religious fruitcake.
I want CHAMPIONSHIPS not chicken poop! And we're getting chicken poop!!!!!!!!!!!
ragtimejoe1
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Selective outrage over historical events drives me nuts. There was nothing sacred. There was nothing humane. poop was brutal regardless of the color of skin or who was in charge. It was a different time, a different era.

Looking back and using today's standards to judge anyone or any race is asinine. I can't believe people get offended at bygones.

Simply amazing.
WYO1016 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
Insults are the last resort of fools with a crumbling position.
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Asmodeanreborn
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ragtimejoe1 wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:38 pm Selective outrage over historical events drives me nuts. There was nothing sacred. There was nothing humane. Sh#t was brutal regardless of the color of skin or who was in charge. It was a different time, a different era.

Looking back and using today's standards to judge anyone or any race is asinine. I can't believe people get offended at bygones.

Simply amazing.
People weren't completely barbaric 500 years ago even though they obviously didn't value life the way we did. That said, now I'm curious what you think about a certain Islamic founder's marriage to a 6-year old or however old she was.
ragtimejoe1
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Asmodeanreborn wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:56 pm
ragtimejoe1 wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:38 pm Selective outrage over historical events drives me nuts. There was nothing sacred. There was nothing humane. Sh#t was brutal regardless of the color of skin or who was in charge. It was a different time, a different era.

Looking back and using today's standards to judge anyone or any race is asinine. I can't believe people get offended at bygones.

Simply amazing.
People weren't completely barbaric 500 years ago even though they obviously didn't value life the way we did. That said, now I'm curious what you think about a certain Islamic founder's marriage to a 6-year old or however old she was.
By today's standards? Appalled and nothing less. However, judging people when life expectancy was what? 25?

It amazes me that people today decide to look back through history and judge people hundreds or thousands of years ago when societies aren't even close to comparable. Get over it. People did good and bad things (based on today's standards) but were operating under completely different environments.There was good. There was bad. There was terrible.

Nobody today had any say on the past. Acknowledging the past doesn't mean celebrating all aspects of the past. How about sweatshops in China producing cheap athletic clothing today? One one hand, social justice is important. On the other hand, if it is in China and making people rich here, social justice isn't important. Look how the NBA tiptoed around the Hong Kong issue. Social justice matters here but not across the ocean?

Like I said, I just have a really good BS filter.
WYO1016 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
Insults are the last resort of fools with a crumbling position.
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ragtimejoe1 wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:48 pm
Asmodeanreborn wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:00 pm
ragtimejoe1 wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:55 pm Can anyone fill me in on cancel culture logic regarding the Democratic party and the Democratic symbol? By the rationale of eliminating civil war era statues, thoughts, books, etc. the Democratic party and logo should also be terminated. After all, they were the party behind the Civil War in the South. They were the party that employed all the Southern Civil War generals. They were the party that opposed equality.

It wasn't until the 60s or 70s that they took on their alleged new ideas of civil rights. For the majority of the USA's existence, the Democratic party has been the party of racism. That is a fact. Why isn't there a call to rename that party complete with a new logo?

I honestly don't get it.
I do think there's a huge difference between eliminating Civil War era statues and removing statues of Confederate personalities erected during the Jim Crow era, and I wish there'd be more of a differentiation between the two. A vast majority of the statues were erected in the early 1900s, which puts the whole thing into more context.

As for the Democratic Party, I suppose the difference is that theoretically they're like a criminal who atoned for their crimes? This is obviously in contrast to somebody like General Nathan Bedford Forrest, who went on to found the KKK, and whose giant statue they put up in freaking 1998 in Tennessee.

I think your Democratic Party argument would hold a lot more water had they continued on the path of trying to keep minorities from voting.


Completely unrelated to BLM - I wish we could get rid of ALL things Christopher Columbus. Even if you make the argument that they didn't know better back then, and that it wasn't intentional genocide, bragging about and giving tips for pedophilia isn't exactly kosher either.
Meh. Never mind. The Democratic party is the reason slavery existed and the civil war happened. Funny how that's forgiven but other things are not.

There really is no logical argument that exonerates Democratic party while still holding other aspects of history accountable.
Funny how we used to hang out in trees and fling poop at each other. Unfortunately, political party in the time of abe lincoln, george washington, or lyndon johnson don't really matter in today time. Politics don't matter. People matter. We have a short time on this earth. If we wish to maximize it, we need everyones help. If we just say - ah f-word it - its the all mighty dollar, etc etc, well, its not an end that I'm very comfortable with.

Most of this stuff is stupid and not productive. I'd rather not deal with it. I have native american ancestry and a few others in my blood line. I've been able to be reasonably successful.

At the end of the day, I have a very small amount of time in this world. I'm happy to help fight for anyone thats hurt, unable to help themselves and the so forth.

Capitalism has got us here. It has flaws, and we are always tweaking it. It still helps - find something you like to do - and make money doing it.

So what are the flaws? Well its simple. Sometimes these rich guys come in and steal your money and you can't do anything about it.

It happened in 2000. It happened in 2008. Its happening now. It is what it is.
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