Let's distill it down to a few questions...

Everything Wyoming Cowboy and Mountain West football!
User avatar
PokeNer
Ranch Hand
Posts: 399
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:34 am
Location: Laramie, WY
Has liked: 1 time
Been liked: 2 times

ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:02 pm
brownngold wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:24 pm I don't think anyone is necessarily defending Vigen, but instead are defending the head coaches offense. It's never going to be a spread out explosive (unless you count long runs) type of offense as long as Bohl is in town. And personally I think Bohl is doing better than many before him. The team has been in every game so far this year, they are still building this be patient I believe the results are coming.
I get so tired of hearing this. Asking for some creativity and running more than the same 4 blast and dive plays doesn't mean the fan base wants an Air Raid Dave Christensen style offense. There are plenty of examples of Pro-Style offensive schemes that blow ours out of the water in terms of creativity. We have really good tight ends. Rarely use them. We have below average WRs. Why we dont run more slants, outs, screens, etc. to help close that talent gap is beyond me. We have a depleted RB crew yet X is getting 30+ touches a game. There are tools at Vigens disposal that hes not using.

There is something to be said about armchair quarterbacking and this board (myself included, 100%) are totally guilty of. We have no idea the true talent level of these players but at this point I'd rather watch this team lose because he called gadget plays that we dont execute than to watch us lose because we run the same blast left we have ran 86 times up to that point. How anyone can defend the play calling in a game like the BSU game is beyond me. My friends fiance, who has no interest in sports, was guessing Vigens plays at about an 80% clip in the second half. Think about that. Think the % for someone, like an opposing DCoordinator who actually knows what they're looking at.

At the end of the day, we are leaving wins on the table with this pussified, vanilla offense. I'd rather see Vigen call a game to win instead of calling a game not to lose.
This is right on point. I doubt anyone is wanting a spread type offense, and would essentially be calling for Bohl to step down if that's the case. I think Bohl is the answer, just not Vigen.

Vigen's play calling is flat out baffling at times. I.E. if we're down with 4 minutes or less, he flat out abandons the run. Does he not understand that the clock stops on first down and OOBs? He's done that now in at least 3 of the games we've lost. Also, that screen pass out of your own endzone - what in hell was that? First, why would you call that there, and second it's a prime example of him not knowing how to design and execute plays.

Bohl's hypocrisy between the D and O is blatant. If Stanard wasn't good enough with Total D numbers in the bottom 10% of FBS, then why is Vigen getting a hall pass? I know there are lot of folks that say to trust Bohl, and he'll make the right decision, but to me it seems like Bohl is letting his close friendship with the Vigens dictate whether or not he needs to make a change.
Image
User avatar
ItSucksToBeACSURam
WyoNation Addict
Posts: 4683
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:53 pm

PokeNer wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:15 pm
ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:02 pm
brownngold wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:24 pm I don't think anyone is necessarily defending Vigen, but instead are defending the head coaches offense. It's never going to be a spread out explosive (unless you count long runs) type of offense as long as Bohl is in town. And personally I think Bohl is doing better than many before him. The team has been in every game so far this year, they are still building this be patient I believe the results are coming.
I get so tired of hearing this. Asking for some creativity and running more than the same 4 blast and dive plays doesn't mean the fan base wants an Air Raid Dave Christensen style offense. There are plenty of examples of Pro-Style offensive schemes that blow ours out of the water in terms of creativity. We have really good tight ends. Rarely use them. We have below average WRs. Why we dont run more slants, outs, screens, etc. to help close that talent gap is beyond me. We have a depleted RB crew yet X is getting 30+ touches a game. There are tools at Vigens disposal that hes not using.

There is something to be said about armchair quarterbacking and this board (myself included, 100%) are totally guilty of. We have no idea the true talent level of these players but at this point I'd rather watch this team lose because he called gadget plays that we dont execute than to watch us lose because we run the same blast left we have ran 86 times up to that point. How anyone can defend the play calling in a game like the BSU game is beyond me. My friends fiance, who has no interest in sports, was guessing Vigens plays at about an 80% clip in the second half. Think about that. Think the % for someone, like an opposing DCoordinator who actually knows what they're looking at.

At the end of the day, we are leaving wins on the table with this pussified, vanilla offense. I'd rather see Vigen call a game to win instead of calling a game not to lose.
This is right on point. I doubt anyone is wanting a spread type offense, and would essentially be calling for Bohl to step down if that's the case. I think Bohl is the answer, just not Vigen.

Vigen's play calling is flat out baffling at times. I.E. if we're down with 4 minutes or less, he flat out abandons the run. Does he not understand that the clock stops on first down and OOBs? He's done that now in at least 3 of the games we've lost. Also, that screen pass out of your own endzone - what in hell was that? First, why would you call that there, and second it's a prime example of him not knowing how to design and execute plays.

Bohl's hypocrisy between the D and O is blatant. If Stanard wasn't good enough with Total D numbers in the bottom 10% of FBS, then why is Vigen getting a hall pass? I know there are lot of folks that say to trust Bohl, and he'll make the right decision, but to me it seems like Bohl is letting his close friendship with the Vigens dictate whether or not he needs to make a change.
You hit the nail on the head with Stanard. And look at what happened once he left? We became a very solid, very formidable defense. It doesnt need to be much. Even an offense in the bottom 1/2 of college football and we'd probably be 10-0 right now. Being bottom 10 offensively isn't going to cut it and is very surprising Bohl puts up with it.

Everyone seems to think that if you fire vigen you may as well fire Bohl too and thats just so strange to me. He isnt the only OC in the world who runs a pro style offense....
Image
JimmyDimes
WyoNation Addict
Posts: 2224
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:25 pm

wyokoke wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:03 pm 1) No
2) It hasn't helped
3) Yes
4) Development mostly
Yet, the Pokes have more players in the pros (mostly Bohl's players) than anytime in recent history. Luck?
Adv8RU12
WyoNation Addict
Posts: 3181
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:07 pm
Been liked: 5 times

PokeNer wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:15 pm ... it seems like Bohl is letting his close friendship with the Vigens dictate whether or not he needs to make a change.
If this is the case there is a solution. Bohl "promotes" Vigen to be "Assistant HEAD Coach", relieving Vigen of his "low level" job as OC and putting him down there on the field "helping" Bohl with "important" things.
User avatar
ItSucksToBeACSURam
WyoNation Addict
Posts: 4683
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:53 pm

Adv8RU12 wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:33 pm
PokeNer wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:15 pm ... it seems like Bohl is letting his close friendship with the Vigens dictate whether or not he needs to make a change.
If this is the case there is a solution. Bohl "promotes" Vigen to be "Assistant HEAD Coach", relieving Vigen of his "low level" job as OC and putting him down there on the field "helping" Bohl with "important" things.
If I remember correctly, his title already includes AHC....
Image
User avatar
LanderPoke
WyoNation Lifer
Posts: 11178
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:47 pm
Location: Laramie
Has liked: 596 times
Been liked: 238 times

Player development is EXCELLENT at Wyoming. We aren't near the top in recruiting rankings, but have tons in the pros and are competing well with the top teams in this conference and getting better.
User avatar
LanderPoke
WyoNation Lifer
Posts: 11178
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:47 pm
Location: Laramie
Has liked: 596 times
Been liked: 238 times

Adv8RU12 wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:33 pm
PokeNer wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:15 pm ... it seems like Bohl is letting his close friendship with the Vigens dictate whether or not he needs to make a change.
If this is the case there is a solution. Bohl "promotes" Vigen to be "Assistant HEAD Coach", relieving Vigen of his "low level" job as OC and putting him down there on the field "helping" Bohl with "important" things.
Sounds like a great plan to me
bladerunnr
A Real Cowboy
Posts: 1962
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:45 pm
Has liked: 3 times
Been liked: 66 times

LanderPoke wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:04 pm Player development is EXCELLENT at Wyoming. We aren't near the top in recruiting rankings, but have tons in the pros and are competing well with the top teams in this conference and getting better.
It is pretty amazing. Just watching Jacob Hollister catch 7 balls for Seattle reminded me of how good that 2016 offense was.
User avatar
seattlecowboy
WyoNation Addict
Posts: 3612
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:33 pm
Location: Seattle
Has liked: 2 times
Been liked: 16 times

LanderPoke wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:04 pm Player development is EXCELLENT at Wyoming. We aren't near the top in recruiting rankings, but have tons in the pros and are competing well with the top teams in this conference and getting better.
If you are talking about the defense having excellent development than I agree with you. The offense has terrible development. Outside of that one year I don’t think any offensive player has went to the pros. All of those guys were the same year. Even the pro teams said Allen had bad coaching at the college level.
Image

Follow me on Twitter for all of your Free/Paid sports wagers all year around. Football, Basketball, Baseball, Hockey, Soccer, Tennis, etc….

488-348 +721 Units won in 6.5 months follow @bet_chase on twitter….
JimmyDimes
WyoNation Addict
Posts: 2224
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:25 pm

seattlecowboy wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:31 pm
LanderPoke wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:04 pm Player development is EXCELLENT at Wyoming. We aren't near the top in recruiting rankings, but have tons in the pros and are competing well with the top teams in this conference and getting better.
If you are talking about the defense having excellent development than I agree with you. The offense has terrible development. Outside of that one year I don’t think any offensive player has went to the pros. All of those guys were the same year. Even the pro teams said Allen had bad coaching at the college level.
Outside of that one year? That one year was Bohl's 4th and included Allen, Hollister, Hill, Gentry, Roullier, ?. Last year Austin Fort...who was converted to TE and had a very good shot at making the Bronco roster. Nico Evans, while he didn't make an NFL roster, was a top college rb...but wasn't earlier in his career. But, players only get developed on the defensive side?

I think we have a couple current guys who have a shot too.
User avatar
LanderPoke
WyoNation Lifer
Posts: 11178
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:47 pm
Location: Laramie
Has liked: 596 times
Been liked: 238 times

seattlecowboy wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:31 pm
LanderPoke wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:04 pm Player development is EXCELLENT at Wyoming. We aren't near the top in recruiting rankings, but have tons in the pros and are competing well with the top teams in this conference and getting better.
If you are talking about the defense having excellent development than I agree with you. The offense has terrible development. Outside of that one year I don’t think any offensive player has went to the pros. All of those guys were the same year. Even the pro teams said Allen had bad coaching at the college level.
I would agree that defensive player development is ahead of offensive player development
Brown and Gold
Ranch Hand
Posts: 176
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:20 pm

Our scheme is not effective and is easy to defend. I don't buy the offense running and controlling the clock. Our defense is certainly our strength but why not get wide open offense that can score often and compliments your stingy defense?

To be honest, I don't care if we lose Bohl. He is an average coach that is vanilla and boring. He will never build anything special here. The best coaches fix their weaknesses. He doesn't.
ragtimejoe1
Bronco-Buster
Posts: 5177
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:21 pm
Has liked: 20 times
Been liked: 128 times

Brown and Gold wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:15 pm

To be honest, I don't care if we lose Bohl. He is an average coach that is vanilla and boring. He will never build anything special here. The best coaches fix their weaknesses. He doesn't.
CRAZY talk. I trust Bohl to get the offense functional WAY more than bringing in a new staff to do better.

All aspects of the program are solid. Player development is awesome. There are just a few key ingredients that need adjustment and the program is set up for long-term success.

Bohl is doing a good job. The job is just taking time. We have tried everything else (literally) except giving a good coach extra time. The offense is a mess. He'll fix it or at least get it functional.
WYO1016 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
Insults are the last resort of fools with a crumbling position.
User avatar
ItSucksToBeACSURam
WyoNation Addict
Posts: 4683
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:53 pm

Brown and Gold wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:15 pm Our scheme is not effective and is easy to defend. I don't buy the offense running and controlling the clock. Our defense is certainly our strength but why not get wide open offense that can score often and compliments your stingy defense?

To be honest, I don't care if we lose Bohl. He is an average coach that is vanilla and boring. He will never build anything special here. The best coaches fix their weaknesses. He doesn't.
I generally disagree with this entire comment but two things struck me:

1. Bohl's mantra has always been tough D and ball control on O. We rarely win the time of possession. Wonder what Bohl would say about that?
2. Bohl is one of the better I have seen at addressing perceived weaknesses with the glaring exception of Vigen. Instead of going away he has promoted up. Gotta be one of two things at play here. Either he is blinded by his friendship with Vigen or he doesn't think anything is wrong. Both are unacceptable as the team is being negatively impacted.

As for your comment about our scheme.... This scheme is predicated on you having superior athletes at every position. When you don't, you have inconsistent results and varying degrees of success. What Vigen fails to see is that we are close enough to this point that he could mix in some creativity and greatly close the gap between our O and the opponents D. BSU was a perfect example. We are not quite to the point where we can stack with them position for position. There are certainly areas we are better (LB for example) but they have a HUGE advantage in the WR position. Instead of helping our guys with things like screens, outs, slants, etc. We run verticals and deep posts which helps neither our WRs or our young QBs. You can't ask the passing game to be asleep most the game with no continuity then suddenly in crunch time perform flawlessly. Get them involved all throughout the game with simple plays. 4-6 yard outs and slants are fine.
Image
User avatar
LanderPoke
WyoNation Lifer
Posts: 11178
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:47 pm
Location: Laramie
Has liked: 596 times
Been liked: 238 times

Brown and Gold wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:15 pm Our scheme is not effective and is easy to defend. I don't buy the offense running and controlling the clock. Our defense is certainly our strength but why not get wide open offense that can score often and compliments your stingy defense?

To be honest, I don't care if we lose Bohl. He is an average coach that is vanilla and boring. He will never build anything special here. The best coaches fix their weaknesses. He doesn't.
I agree the offense needs tweaks. But Bohl is the right man for the job! We should give Bohl all the time he needs. I believe we're getting there
User avatar
kdwrightuwyo
A Real Cowboy
Posts: 1577
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:33 pm

"I agree the offense needs tweaks. But Bohl is the right man for the job! We should give Bohl all the time he needs. I believe we're getting there" 6 years isn't long enough to recruit/develop WRs who can get open and catch the ball? How long does it take to learn that you shouldn't run the ball up the gut 5 plays in a row when the other team is stuffing the box with 8 defenders and stopping it consistently?

Bohl fixed his inept D after just a couple of years. We're on year 6 on Offense...and it has nothing to do with scheme an style...it has to do with planning and execution. Same as on D.
User avatar
laxwyo
Bronco-Buster
Posts: 9486
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:27 am
Location: Rock Springs, WY
Has liked: 134 times
Been liked: 141 times

kdwrightuwyo wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:39 pm "I agree the offense needs tweaks. But Bohl is the right man for the job! We should give Bohl all the time he needs. I believe we're getting there" 6 years isn't long enough to recruit/develop WRs who can get open and catch the ball? How long does it take to learn that you shouldn't run the ball up the gut 5 plays in a row when the other team is stuffing the box with 8 defenders and stopping it consistently?

Bohl fixed his inept D after just a couple of years. We're on year 6 on Offense...and it has nothing to do with scheme an style...it has to do with planning and execution. Same as on D.
Welcome back kd! Don’t see you around too often these days
W-Y, Until I Die!
Brown and Gold
Ranch Hand
Posts: 176
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:20 pm

We have had 5 years of bad offense and one that was decent. We lose each year because of our continued inept offense. If it's execution, then it still falls on coaching. If it is recruiting the right type of players for the system, then our coaches are way off. Bohl is the right guy for 3rd place in the division annually. Maybe we are okay with that.
User avatar
kdwrightuwyo
A Real Cowboy
Posts: 1577
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:33 pm

laxwyo wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:40 pm
kdwrightuwyo wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:39 pm "I agree the offense needs tweaks. But Bohl is the right man for the job! We should give Bohl all the time he needs. I believe we're getting there" 6 years isn't long enough to recruit/develop WRs who can get open and catch the ball? How long does it take to learn that you shouldn't run the ball up the gut 5 plays in a row when the other team is stuffing the box with 8 defenders and stopping it consistently?

Bohl fixed his inept D after just a couple of years. We're on year 6 on Offense...and it has nothing to do with scheme an style...it has to do with planning and execution. Same as on D.
Welcome back kd! Don’t see you around too often these days
Once I lost this site on my tapatalk app, I kinda quit getting on. The app was WAY more convenient than accessing through a web browser. I'm currently deployed to Afghanistan, so I'll probably get on here a little more since I have some decent periods of time on my hands, access to the interwebz, and limited access to other time-wasters.
Post Reply