Love Bohl, but...

[307bball]

Can somebody please respond to the question of why it is that Wyoming is not competitive (so far) against P5 competition?

2011BisonAlumi thinks it is because Bohl has not recruited as well as he did in Fargo. Seems like as good of an explanation as anything else. It's not like Wyoming played against the tip-top of the P5 and NDSU played against the cellar either. I'm sure that better stat-heads than me could compare the relative strengths of the P5 teams that the two programs have played. Maybe Wyo has had it a little tougher but it would surprise me if it was way tougher....I find it problematic that a coach that ostensibly is very good at his job can't get it done in Laramie.

Here is the way i see it:

1. Recruiting, to me, is the biggest part of this. Recruiting to Laramie is different than to other colleges. Maybe Bohl did not account for this. I don't follow recruiting very closely since I'm a Wyoming fan and player development will always be where we get our best talent.

2. If recruiting and player development are not the problem than i'm even more worried. To me this would be the result of the landscape of college footbal tilting inexorably away from the Wyoming-type schools. I've felt like this is happening for a while and I hope like hell i'm wrong. Wyoming football has not been relevant for a couple of decades. It's not like we were lighting the world on fire before then but the national stature of the program was definitely higher pre-bowl alliance/BCS and conference re-allignment.

3. Late era DC Wyoming could have been way worse than anybody thought. I hope that this is the case since it means we are on the right trajectory.

I think 2011BisonAlumni is overstating how good the Bison would be in a full FBS slate of games but hey...the argument does not come out of left field. Rather than arguing with homer Bison fans about how good they would be in the MWC in any era..why not turn the focus on what is going on in our own house...Namely a hyper-successful coach going to a geographically similar school and struggling to recreate that success.

[ELKMT]

Wyoming has played better power conference teams? Have we played a power conference team with a losing record during the Bohl era? Not exactly playing Kansas. I mean the first year (2014)we played two top ten teams in Oregon and Michigan state (didn’t Oregon play in the title game that year?). These are ranked teams at the end of the year not like Iowa when Nodak beat them in 16. Wyoming also beat a top 5 FCS school in 14, which is probably one of the worst Wyoming teams ever. My point is that Bohl has faced a significantly difficult power conference schedule during his tenure ( Dave Christensen also faced a national title runner up in Texas just as more on the Oregon team).

I do find the Iowa and Kansas state wins impressive, but it’s not like Wyoming hasn’t beat SEC teams in recent history ( recent to me). The other wins against FBS teams were against teams that did not have anywhere close to winning records ( and some loses against some bad FBS teams including a Joe Glenn led Wyoming).

[seattlecowboy]

Can somebody please respond to the question of why it is that Wyoming is not competitive (so far) against P5 competition?

2011BisonAlumi thinks it is because Bohl has not recruited as well as he did in Fargo. Seems like as good of an explanation as anything else. It's not like Wyoming played against the tip-top of the P5 and NDSU played against the cellar either. I'm sure that better stat-heads than me could compare the relative strengths of the P5 teams that the two programs have played. Maybe Wyo has had it a little tougher but it would surprise me if it was way tougher....I find it problematic that a coach that ostensibly is very good at his job can't get it done in Laramie.

Here is the way i see it:

1. Recruiting, to me, is the biggest part of this. Recruiting to Laramie is different than to other colleges. Maybe Bohl did not account for this. I don't follow recruiting very closely since I'm a Wyoming fan and player development will always be where we get our best talent.

2. If recruiting and player development are not the problem than i'm even more worried. To me this would be the result of the landscape of college footbal tilting inexorably away from the Wyoming-type schools. I've felt like this is happening for a while and I hope like hell i'm wrong. Wyoming football has not been relevant for a couple of decades. It's not like we were lighting the world on fire before then but the national stature of the program was definitely higher pre-bowl alliance/BCS and conference re-allignment.

3. Late era DC Wyoming could have been way worse than anybody thought. I hope that this is the case since it means we are on the right trajectory.

I think 2011BisonAlumni is overstating how good the Bison would be in a full FBS slate of games but hey...the argument does not come out of left field. Rather than arguing with homer Bison fans about how good they would be in the MWC in any era..why not turn the focus on what is going on in our own house...Namely a hyper-successful coach going to a geographically similar school and struggling to recreate that success.

Wyoming's overall games against the P5 were quite a bit tougher in most cases. Wyoming has played legit top 10 and top 15 teams in a few games. NDSU had 2 decent wins over K-St. and Iowa but neither ended the year in the top 25 by any means. The rest of the teams they played had bad records.

I do agree with him that the recruiting is the problem. I however don't think Bohl recruited better to NDSU than he has Wyoming. I think if NDSU had to play Wyoming's schedule that NDSU would start dropping multiple games because a 12 games schedule with all FBS teams on it including a lot of MWC teams on it is a lot tougher week in week out than a 12 games schedule of FCS teams with one P5 team on it.

The problem is the recruiting though. Bohl's style requires Wyoming or NDSU to be able to just ground and pound and tire out the opponent so by the late 3rd qtr. and 4th qtr. you start getting big chunks of yards and over taking them because they are so tired from the wear and tear of the physicality of the whole game.

The problem with this whole scenario is that at Wyoming or NDSU you will never be able to recruit the type of linemen at a high enough level to out athlete and out physical everyone that you play. As I have already stated you would need to be able to recruit on the same level as Stanford or Wisconsin who play the same type of ball ro be able to get to where you can out physical teams like that. You even need to be able to recruit up to Boise St's level year in and year out to be able to do it in the MWC week in and week out. So yeah it may work 1 year out of every 4 or 5 in the MWC... but year in and year out it isn't going to work and you are not going to beat many P5 teams using it, at least not the upper tier ones.

[307bball]

Can somebody please respond to the question of why it is that Wyoming is not competitive (so far) against P5 competition?

2011BisonAlumi thinks it is because Bohl has not recruited as well as he did in Fargo. Seems like as good of an explanation as anything else. It's not like Wyoming played against the tip-top of the P5 and NDSU played against the cellar either. I'm sure that better stat-heads than me could compare the relative strengths of the P5 teams that the two programs have played. Maybe Wyo has had it a little tougher but it would surprise me if it was way tougher....I find it problematic that a coach that ostensibly is very good at his job can't get it done in Laramie.

Here is the way i see it:

1. Recruiting, to me, is the biggest part of this. Recruiting to Laramie is different than to other colleges. Maybe Bohl did not account for this. I don't follow recruiting very closely since I'm a Wyoming fan and player development will always be where we get our best talent.

2. If recruiting and player development are not the problem than i'm even more worried. To me this would be the result of the landscape of college footbal tilting inexorably away from the Wyoming-type schools. I've felt like this is happening for a while and I hope like hell i'm wrong. Wyoming football has not been relevant for a couple of decades. It's not like we were lighting the world on fire before then but the national stature of the program was definitely higher pre-bowl alliance/BCS and conference re-allignment.

3. Late era DC Wyoming could have been way worse than anybody thought. I hope that this is the case since it means we are on the right trajectory.

I think 2011BisonAlumni is overstating how good the Bison would be in a full FBS slate of games but hey...the argument does not come out of left field. Rather than arguing with homer Bison fans about how good they would be in the MWC in any era..why not turn the focus on what is going on in our own house...Namely a hyper-successful coach going to a geographically similar school and struggling to recreate that success.

Wyoming's overall games against the P5 were quite a bit tougher in most cases. Wyoming has played legit top 10 and top 15 teams in a few games. NDSU had 2 decent wins over K-St. and Iowa but neither ended the year in the top 25 by any means. The rest of the teams they played had bad records.

I do agree with him that the recruiting is the problem. I however don't think Bohl recruited better to NDSU than he has Wyoming. I think if NDSU had to play Wyoming's schedule that NDSU would start dropping multiple games because a 12 games schedule with all FBS teams on it including a lot of MWC teams on it is a lot tougher week in week out than a 12 games schedule of FCS teams with one P5 team on it.

The problem is the recruiting though. Bohl's style requires Wyoming or NDSU to be able to just ground and pound and tire out the opponent so by the late 3rd qtr. and 4th qtr. you start getting big chunks of yards and over taking them because they are so tired from the wear and tear of the physicality of the whole game.

The problem with this whole scenario is that at Wyoming or NDSU you will never be able to recruit the type of linemen at a high enough level to out athlete and out physical everyone that you play. As I have already stated you would need to be able to recruit on the same level as Stanford or Wisconsin who play the same type of ball ro be able to get to where you can out physical teams like that. You even need to be able to recruit up to Boise St's level year in and year out to be able to do it in the MWC week in and week out. So yeah it may work 1 year out of every 4 or 5 in the MWC... but year in and year out it isn't going to work and you are not going to beat many P5 teams using it, at least not the upper tier ones.

You may be right but I don't think it's a slam dunk case. As I said the p5 teams Wyoming has played are probably better (I don't think it's a giant margin though). Even if it is the case that they are better... Wyoming doesn't even seem to be competitive with these guys.... Much less win a few.

I really hope it is some sort of recruiting/schematic issue but we are going on 20+ years of this. Why has no coach during that stretch gotten it together for three straight years? Am I crazy to think that, at t an organizational level, Wyoming football is doing something wrong? Maybe just snakebite.

[ELKMT]

As I said the p5 teams Wyoming has played are probably better (I don't think it's a giant margin though

I think in a couple instances that margin is huge. Texas ( played under DC) and Oregon made national title games, and Michigan State ended the year we played them ranked #9. All other teams we have played in the Bohl era had winning records ( the Mile Leach teams have been good as well).

[joshvanklomp]

It's not like Wyoming played against the tip-top of the P5 and NDSU played against the cellar either. I'm sure that better stat-heads than me could compare the relative strengths of the P5 teams that the two programs have played. Maybe Wyo has had it a little tougher but it would surprise me if it was way tougher....I find it problematic that a coach that ostensibly is very good at his job can't get it done in Laramie.

You need to look a little harder because I did exactly that in this very thread.

Here were his FBS games
2006: Minnesota (6-7) L 10-9
2007: Minnesota (1-11) W 27-21
2009: Iowa State (7-6) L 34-17
2010: Kansas (3-9) W 6-3
2011: Minnesota (3-9) W 37-24
2013: Kansas State (8-5) W 24-21

One win against a Power 5 team with a winning record.

Since coming to Wyoming, here's the Power 5 teams we've faced:
2014: Oregon (13-2)
2014: Michigan State (11-2)
2015: Washington State (9-4)
2016: Nebraska (9-4)
2017: Iowa (8-5)
2017: Oregon (7-6)

[307bball]

It's not like Wyoming played against the tip-top of the P5 and NDSU played against the cellar either. I'm sure that better stat-heads than me could compare the relative strengths of the P5 teams that the two programs have played. Maybe Wyo has had it a little tougher but it would surprise me if it was way tougher....I find it problematic that a coach that ostensibly is very good at his job can't get it done in Laramie.

You need to look a little harder because I did exactly that in this very thread.

Here were his FBS games
2006: Minnesota (6-7) L 10-9
2007: Minnesota (1-11) W 27-21
2009: Iowa State (7-6) L 34-17
2010: Kansas (3-9) W 6-3
2011: Minnesota (3-9) W 37-24
2013: Kansas State (8-5) W 24-21

One win against a Power 5 team with a winning record.

Since coming to Wyoming, here's the Power 5 teams we've faced:
2014: Oregon (13-2)
2014: Michigan State (11-2)
2015: Washington State (9-4)
2016: Nebraska (9-4)
2017: Iowa (8-5)
2017: Oregon (7-6)

*sigh* once again...arguing about the relative strengths of p5 opponents has not been the point of the question i'm asking. I am conceding that the p5 opponents wyoming has faced have been better. I'm also fairly certain that no matter how cruddy the program...the recruits that play at P5 schools are bigger/faster/stronger than what NDSU can recruit.

THE question is ... Why are we not close, right now, in year five with a man at the helm that nobody would describe as lacking football coaching accumen to competing at a higher level? I happen to think that it is worth examining why he could do it at NDSU and not at Wyo. At this point it is not about beating these programs...it's about looking like we are in the same competitive echelon.

[Poke in New England]

Can somebody please respond to the question of why it is that Wyoming is not competitive (so far) against P5 competition?

2011BisonAlumi thinks it is because Bohl has not recruited as well as he did in Fargo. Seems like as good of an explanation as anything else. It's not like Wyoming played against the tip-top of the P5 and NDSU played against the cellar either. I'm sure that better stat-heads than me could compare the relative strengths of the P5 teams that the two programs have played. Maybe Wyo has had it a little tougher but it would surprise me if it was way tougher....I find it problematic that a coach that ostensibly is very good at his job can't get it done in Laramie.

Here is the way i see it:

1. Recruiting, to me, is the biggest part of this. Recruiting to Laramie is different than to other colleges. Maybe Bohl did not account for this. I don't follow recruiting very closely since I'm a Wyoming fan and player development will always be where we get our best talent.

2. If recruiting and player development are not the problem than i'm even more worried. To me this would be the result of the landscape of college footbal tilting inexorably away from the Wyoming-type schools. I've felt like this is happening for a while and I hope like hell i'm wrong. Wyoming football has not been relevant for a couple of decades. It's not like we were lighting the world on fire before then but the national stature of the program was definitely higher pre-bowl alliance/BCS and conference re-allignment.

3. Late era DC Wyoming could have been way worse than anybody thought. I hope that this is the case since it means we are on the right trajectory.

I think 2011BisonAlumni is overstating how good the Bison would be in a full FBS slate of games but hey...the argument does not come out of left field. Rather than arguing with homer Bison fans about how good they would be in the MWC in any era..why not turn the focus on what is going on in our own house...Namely a hyper-successful coach going to a geographically similar school and struggling to recreate that success.

It depends how you define "relevant." If you mean championships alone, that's true. But if you haven't noticed, national media calling Wyoming games go out of their way to compliment Bohl, the direction of the program etc. Sometimes they give Wyoming more credit than they deserve even. CFB guys at ESPN probably think higher of our team than a majority of people on this board do.

And Bohl also just sent a quarterback to the NFL in the top 10. First guy to ever play in Laramie to throw an NFL pass. And more guys are going to the league in the next two years at least. That has to mean something.

[307bball]

Can somebody please respond to the question of why it is that Wyoming is not competitive (so far) against P5 competition?

2011BisonAlumi thinks it is because Bohl has not recruited as well as he did in Fargo. Seems like as good of an explanation as anything else. It's not like Wyoming played against the tip-top of the P5 and NDSU played against the cellar either. I'm sure that better stat-heads than me could compare the relative strengths of the P5 teams that the two programs have played. Maybe Wyo has had it a little tougher but it would surprise me if it was way tougher....I find it problematic that a coach that ostensibly is very good at his job can't get it done in Laramie.

Here is the way i see it:

1. Recruiting, to me, is the biggest part of this. Recruiting to Laramie is different than to other colleges. Maybe Bohl did not account for this. I don't follow recruiting very closely since I'm a Wyoming fan and player development will always be where we get our best talent.

2. If recruiting and player development are not the problem than i'm even more worried. To me this would be the result of the landscape of college footbal tilting inexorably away from the Wyoming-type schools. I've felt like this is happening for a while and I hope like hell i'm wrong. Wyoming football has not been relevant for a couple of decades. It's not like we were lighting the world on fire before then but the national stature of the program was definitely higher pre-bowl alliance/BCS and conference re-allignment.

3. Late era DC Wyoming could have been way worse than anybody thought. I hope that this is the case since it means we are on the right trajectory.

I think 2011BisonAlumni is overstating how good the Bison would be in a full FBS slate of games but hey...the argument does not come out of left field. Rather than arguing with homer Bison fans about how good they would be in the MWC in any era..why not turn the focus on what is going on in our own house...Namely a hyper-successful coach going to a geographically similar school and struggling to recreate that success.

It depends how you define "relevant." If you mean championships alone, that's true. But if you haven't noticed, national media calling Wyoming games go out of their way to compliment Bohl, the direction of the program etc. Sometimes they give Wyoming more credit than they deserve even. CFB guys at ESPN probably think higher of our team than a majority of people on this board do.

And Bohl also just sent a quarterback to the NFL in the top 10. First guy to ever play in Laramie to throw an NFL pass. And more guys are going to the league in the next two years at least. That has to mean something.

Ah...thx NewEngland. I'm glad for the "glass half full" perspective. I need to make sure not to wallow in the negativity of the last two losses.

[ELKMT]

I think he is getting the program closer, the talents is there to compete during the first half of football at the least. Same problem as DC in terms of depth ( his teams also hung around for the first halves against Texas and came close against Nebraska). Glenn has been the only one to recently break through against p5 teams ( beat 3 SEC teams, 9 win virginia, and UCLA). I see the problem being depth, especially on the-offensive line and qb.

Bohl’s teams also had top tier talent for FCS ( similar to what we have now at Wyoming )and was able to dominate FCS teams like a poor man’s Alabama. Add in program consistency and an FCS school can beat a struggling FBS team ( Minnesota, Kansas, CSU) often and a decent team on occasion (k-state, Iowa). Now in my opinion Missouri is good and WSU is decent. We beat WSU for a half, that is improvement but we’re a complete game away yet from where we can beat a decent p5 team. Bohl probably thought we would be there this year, but the offense isn’t even at mediocre level yet.

I think the gap between the elite and everyone one else is so large that we could never beat an Alabama barring a fluke miracle. That doesn’t mean we can’t beat the bad to decent p5 teams ( come on Burman schedule Kansas).

[seattlecowboy]

It's not like Wyoming played against the tip-top of the P5 and NDSU played against the cellar either. I'm sure that better stat-heads than me could compare the relative strengths of the P5 teams that the two programs have played. Maybe Wyo has had it a little tougher but it would surprise me if it was way tougher....I find it problematic that a coach that ostensibly is very good at his job can't get it done in Laramie.

You need to look a little harder because I did exactly that in this very thread.

Here were his FBS games
2006: Minnesota (6-7) L 10-9
2007: Minnesota (1-11) W 27-21
2009: Iowa State (7-6) L 34-17
2010: Kansas (3-9) W 6-3
2011: Minnesota (3-9) W 37-24
2013: Kansas State (8-5) W 24-21

One win against a Power 5 team with a winning record.

Since coming to Wyoming, here's the Power 5 teams we've faced:
2014: Oregon (13-2)
2014: Michigan State (11-2)
2015: Washington State (9-4)
2016: Nebraska (9-4)
2017: Iowa (8-5)
2017: Oregon (7-6)

*sigh* once again...arguing about the relative strengths of p5 opponents has not been the point of the question i'm asking. I am conceding that the p5 opponents wyoming has faced have been better. I'm also fairly certain that no matter how cruddy the program...the recruits that play at P5 schools are bigger/faster/stronger than what NDSU can recruit.

THE question is ... Why are we not close, right now, in year five with a man at the helm that nobody would describe as lacking football coaching accumen to competing at a higher level? I happen to think that it is worth examining why he could do it at NDSU and not at Wyo. At this point it is not about beating these programs...it's about looking like we are in the same competitive echelon.

I already answered your question here. Maybe you just don't like the answer. .... Reality is Unless he changes his offensive philosophy and recruits a different type of player it won't work. And he didn't do anything at NDSU that he couldn't do here. If Wyoming played a 3-9 Kansas team last year or 2 years ago or a 1-11 Minnesota team he probably would have won but Wyoming has played for the most part a lot tougher games than what he did at NDSU and that is why it isn't working.

[307bball]

I hope you are right Seattle...I hope that we are a few recruiting battles and style tweaks away from putting this program on a consistent track. The reason I hope this is if Bohl can't get it done... And taking into account the mediocrity that the Wyoming program had been mired in...I don't know if it can be done. Pokeinnewengland pointed out some of the things that Bohl has already turned around and makes some good points... Slow and steady wins the race (I hope).

[joshvanklomp]

THE question is ... Why are we not close, right now, in year five with a man at the helm that nobody would describe as lacking football coaching accumen to competing at a higher level? I happen to think that it is worth examining why he could do it at NDSU and not at Wyo. At this point it is not about beating these programs...it's about looking like we are in the same competitive echelon.

Do you think he was winning championships immediately at NDSU? He wasn't. In his fifth year at the FCS level, they went 6-5. Went 3-8 the next year too.

Going from perennial cellar-dweller to perennial conference champion does not usually happen in five years. Some people just need to accept that fact. Running every coach out of town after five years because you didn't win a conference title or beat good P5 teams doesn't get you anywhere as a program.

[bloodmakesthegrasgro]

It was the third game of the 2016 season when the Bison beat Iowa. In 2008 when the Bison lost to Wyoming on a last minute FG, they were still in transition from DII to DI. As was mentioned earlier in the thread the Bison came into the game rather beat up, their stud running back, Tyler Rohl not able to play. Rohl is now an offensive coach at NDSU. NDSU's QB at the time, never panned out and was prone to throwing INTS at crucial moments. His INT against Wyoming in the waning minute of the game led to the aforementioned FG. Wyoming was unable to move the ball, but the INT was thrown fairly deep in Bison territory (the FG was 29 yds). With Rohl not playing, the remaining starting running back (I can't bring his name to mind), a freshman or RSF I think, wore out in the 2nd half. He became a very good RB. I don't remember who filled in for Rohl at RB that game.

Total yards:

NDSU 313
Wyoming 266

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/wyo ... 091308.pdf

[ZapPoke]

So...I'm asking myself is there something systemically going on at wyo that keeps the high water mark for this program where it is? It seems like since Dana Dimel the cycle is:

1. New coach inherits dumpster fire
2. Gets leeway to implement new system (usually with no relation to previous system)
3. Actually puts together a two year stretch of decent football resulting in a bowl win/appearence.
4. Whatever was working during the better results starts to not work.
5. Players begin to quit on team.
6. Dumpster fire season occurs.
7. go back to step one.

I really hope we are not at step 4.

Really all you can do is keep repeating the cycle until you get lucky and stumble upon the next Urban Meyer.

No, UW needs its next Bowden Wyatt or Bob Devaney. Those guys left for great careers at Tennessee and Nebraska after doing well at Wyo. I keep hoping Bohl fits that mold. The past two seasons are on the right track and I have to remain optimistic for this one or I wouldn’t be a Poke fan. Given the recruiting challenges Wyo faces I am happy with a winning season and a bowl game and appreciate the players who do come to Laramie. If they do happen to beat a P5 team that’s just icing on the cake.

[ZapPoke]

Seriously guys, this all boils down to recruiting. Wyoming is a tough sell. There is approximately one FBS caliber player per 114,000 people in the US. That means at best that the state produces 4 players. If the kid is really good he’ll get recruited by a P5 and unless it has always been his dream to be a Cowboy that’s where he’ll go. It happened recently with some kid who went to Florida or something.

So, if the Pokes get a guy from Texas or California he was overlooked by a lot of schools. Then there is also some overlap with the guys who might be good enough for FBS but would rather play for a top tier FCS school. One of the things that makes me enjoy being a Poke fan is seeing the overlooked guy who comes to Wyo and turns out to be really good. Chukwurah (Texas), the Gipsons (Texas), Allen (California), and a whole bunch of guys overlooked by Colorado schools.

A history and culture of winning is the best recruiting tool. Bohl has two years of that at Wyo now. This season is now make or break for him and I am pretty sure he knows it. I am not panicking yet.

[NowherePoke]

THE question is ... Why are we not close, right now, in year five with a man at the helm that nobody would describe as lacking football coaching accumen to competing at a higher level? I happen to think that it is worth examining why he could do it at NDSU and not at Wyo. At this point it is not about beating these programs...it's about looking like we are in the same competitive echelon.

Do you think he was winning championships immediately at NDSU? He wasn't. In his fifth year at the FCS level, they went 6-5. Went 3-8 the next year too.

Going from perennial cellar-dweller to perennial conference champion does not usually happen in five years. Some people just need to accept that fact. Running every coach out of town after five years because you didn't win a conference title or beat good P5 teams doesn't get you anywhere as a program.

We were not a perennial cellar dweller before Bohl. Glenn and DC had almost identical winning percentages to Bohl.

[joshvanklomp]

THE question is ... Why are we not close, right now, in year five with a man at the helm that nobody would describe as lacking football coaching accumen to competing at a higher level? I happen to think that it is worth examining why he could do it at NDSU and not at Wyo. At this point it is not about beating these programs...it's about looking like we are in the same competitive echelon.

And my response is because we aren't facing teams in the same competitive echelon as NDSU was facing. If he was playing 9-win and better P5 teams at NDSU, he wouldn't have the same success he had there. If we were playing the teams he was beating at NDSU, we would have multiple P5 wins. It's not that hard to comprehend.

[bloodmakesthegrasgro]

THE question is ... Why are we not close, right now, in year five with a man at the helm that nobody would describe as lacking football coaching accumen to competing at a higher level? I happen to think that it is worth examining why he could do it at NDSU and not at Wyo. At this point it is not about beating these programs...it's about looking like we are in the same competitive echelon.

And my response is because we aren't facing teams in the same competitive echelon as NDSU was facing. If he was playing 9-win and better P5 teams at NDSU, he wouldn't have the same success he had there. If we were playing the teams he was beating at NDSU, we would have multiple P5 wins. It's not that hard to comprehend.

Bohl and NDSU was playing them all on the road. Wyoming and Iowa played first game of the season 2017, how did that go.

[307bball]

THE question is ... Why are we not close, right now, in year five with a man at the helm that nobody would describe as lacking football coaching accumen to competing at a higher level? I happen to think that it is worth examining why he could do it at NDSU and not at Wyo. At this point it is not about beating these programs...it's about looking like we are in the same competitive echelon.

And my response is because we aren't facing teams in the same competitive echelon as NDSU was facing. If he was playing 9-win and better P5 teams at NDSU, he wouldn't have the same success he had there. If we were playing the teams he was beating at NDSU, we would have multiple P5 wins. It's not that hard to comprehend.

Like I said (repetitively) it is not about winning these games. It's about looking like we aren't even in the same division. The one thing I'm currently hanging my hat on is that the pokes were not playing well against WSU and still had the lead until it got away in the end... My brother-in-law lives in Iowa City and he's a Hawks fan who goes to the games there and his report after watching the bison come into Iowa and win was that the game was actually more of a beat down than the score indicated. Now.. Does that team go into Missouri and win? Probably not... But they would probably look like they belonged.

My position is that of the possible situations UW could be in right now, having CG at the helm is as good as we can do and we still are crapping the bed with these high profile opponents.... My hope, as a fan, is that the team puts these last two games in the rear view and contends for a conference championship.... Heck we played in back to back bowl games for the first time in forever...