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Belichek hanging it up after worst season in ~30 years. So were his successes due to being a good coach or did he have exceptional players? It’s probably some combination thereof, but leaning heavily towards the players.

I’ve never seen a coach in any sport win anything with crappy players. Now coaches can help turn marginal players into better players.

To win championships it takes all of the above. If you are just a bad coach ... you might be good with good players but you aren't going to do anything close to what Belicheck did.

I think talent level generally dominates but on an even playing field .... coaching matters a lot.

ZapPoke wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 5:01 pm Belichek hanging it up after worst season in ~30 years. So were his successes due to being a good coach or did he have exceptional players? It’s probably some combination thereof, but leaning heavily towards the players.

His record isn’t good without Brady.

He was a good coach, maybe even a great coach, but had Brady -and that’s most of his success right there

Show me the legendary coach that didn't also have top notch players.

Brady and they had a pretty good run in the draft. They also seemed to get a lot of production from budget free agents.

Brady was probably the biggest though.

ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 7:40 am Brady and they had a pretty good run in the draft. They also seemed to get a lot of production from budget free agents.

Brady was probably the biggest though.

Brady in addition to playing ability also was very salary cap friendly at New England. Still he acknowledges that without Belichick he would not have had the same amount of success. They helped each other.

Belichek was also the GM, and arguably his roster decisions after Brady were what brought the team down rather than his coaching decisions. Dude still took Mac Jones to the playoffs as a rookie, he is a damn good coach but too stubborn in his ways when it came to building a roster.

Poke in New England wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 8:52 am Belichek was also the GM, and arguably his roster decisions after Brady were what brought the team down rather than his coaching decisions. Dude still took Mac Jones to the playoffs as a rookie, he is a damn good coach but too stubborn in his ways when it came to building a roster.

NFL is usually much like mid tier college football teams. Just look at the rams a few years ago. They load up for a SB run and then are in cap hell for a while. The ravens/steeelers and patriots are the exception but you’re seeing how important having a good qb is. You see the teams who have good qbs on rookie deals always fare the best. Brady gave Pats a discount and that’s why they sustained.