WyoNation.com

Brew_Poke wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 1:18 pm

stymeman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:28 am

springs_poke wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 11:12 pm Entitled Wyoming fans. Not his fault.

I truly want to understand this entitled Wyoming fan thing and it's meaning and relevancy to this post, cuz i know I'd like to see a MWC Championship within the next 20 years, call me crazy, it's been quite awhile since we've seen one afterall

We've never seen a MWC Championship.

Last outright title: 1988 as part of the WAC
Last shared title: 1993 again as part of the WAC

springs_poke wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 11:12 pm Entitled Wyoming fans. Not his fault.

I'm not disagreeing, but I would say it's more entitled players and certain school's athletic programs. But then I played in the 50s & 60s and things were a lot different back then when there was loyalty to the program you were with and money didn't drive the bus.

News flash.

Bohl was the highest paid head coach in the league before the sheep did what they did.

Everything that is happening now is his responsibility.

He will have the chance to fix it, but I don't have much confidence.

Wicks wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 5:41 pm
Everything that is happening now is his responsibility.

It's his problem.... But the extraordinary player movement going on right now are not the result of any individual coaches doing.

Tepid and underachieving football team? Yeah.. That is his fault.

The ncaa is an absolute total joke. They have completely ruined College Sports.

WYCowboy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 8:13 pm The ncaa is an absolute total joke. They have completely ruined College Sports.

It's not the NCAA. It's the Autonomous 5.

I'm with WYCowboy on this one. The NCAA screwed it all up. The Autonomous 5, to me, made their moves to wrestle power away from the NCAA.

WYCowboy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 8:13 pm The ncaa is an absolute total joke. They have completely ruined College Sports.

I'm curious what you feel is the NCAA's part in this...NIL was forced upon them, they had no choice. Transfer rule has always been like this except for football and basketball, just making it even across the board.

Not saying that the NCAA doesn't share the blame, but there are many agents at work here.

307bball wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 6:01 pm

Wicks wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 5:41 pm
Everything that is happening now is his responsibility.

It's his problem.... But the extraordinary player movement going on right now are not the result of any individual coaches doing.

Disagree.

No matter whose fault it is, he is paid to adapt and fix it. I am skeptical he can, but hope he does.

Subcanis wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:29 am

307bball wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 6:01 pm

Wicks wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 5:41 pm
Everything that is happening now is his responsibility.

It's his problem.... But the extraordinary player movement going on right now are not the result of any individual coaches doing.

Disagree.

Ok.. Make your case.

As I see it...I don't think we have a snowball's chance of keeping skill guys like Neyor in the future. The opportunity is just too big to turn down. Even without the money... It's a big deal to be a starting QB, WR, RB at any of the P5 schools in a way that it's not at Wyoming. If a player has a shot at that and the rules don't prevent it, they will leave and no coach can stop that. IMO this is not dependant on players being "happy". What if Neyor had double the touches? Triple? I don't think it matters. This is about money and the opportunity to play in big time college football games... Neither of which are available at Wyoming.

The other guys leaving in large numbers, I do believe Bohl has more control over (still largely out of his control). This is where the "happy" player affect is more of a big deal. This comes down to winning. If Wyoming had ten wins this year... Who is leaving? I think Neyor leaves and that is pretty much it. Are you a good underclassman on a barely .500 team? Those are the players that will leave.

307bball wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:55 am

Subcanis wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:29 am

307bball wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 6:01 pm

Wicks wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 5:41 pm
Everything that is happening now is his responsibility.

It's his problem.... But the extraordinary player movement going on right now are not the result of any individual coaches doing.

Disagree.

Ok.. Make your case.

As I see it...I don't think we have a snowball's chance of keeping skill guys like Neyor in the future. The opportunity is just too big to turn down. Even without the money... It's a big deal to be a starting QB, WR, RB at any of the P5 schools in a way that it's not at Wyoming. If a player has a shot at that and the rules don't prevent it, they will leave and no coach can stop that. IMO this is not dependant on players being "happy". What if Neyor had double the touches? Triple? I don't think it matters. This is about money and the opportunity to play in big time college football games... Neither of which are available at Wyoming.

The other guys leaving in large numbers, I do believe Bohl has more control over (still largely out of his control). This is where the "happy" player affect is more of a big deal. This comes down to winning. If Wyoming had ten wins this year... Who is leaving? I think Neyor leaves and that is pretty much it. Are you a good underclassman on a barely .500 team? Those are the players that will leave.

You’re right. There is virtually zero chance that Wyoming can keep a generational talent like Neyor. It would be damn near stupidity for a player like that to turn down the money.

But, as you indicate, every other player leaving makes much less sense. All of those players (other than Murray and Chambers) were starters at Wyoming and are fringe talent guys. These guys might think the grass is greener but all of them stand a good chance of getting beat out for a starting spot at their new programs and then riding the pine. They are all leaving to different schemes and will have a learning curve to catch up to the players already in the various programs. To be honest, I wouldn’t be surprised if a couple of them realize that they are in little demand compared to what they thought and end up pulling their names from the transfer portal.

OrediggerPoke wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 10:35 am

307bball wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:55 am

Subcanis wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:29 am

307bball wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 6:01 pm

Wicks wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 5:41 pm
Everything that is happening now is his responsibility.

It's his problem.... But the extraordinary player movement going on right now are not the result of any individual coaches doing.

Disagree.

Ok.. Make your case.

As I see it...I don't think we have a snowball's chance of keeping skill guys like Neyor in the future. The opportunity is just too big to turn down. Even without the money... It's a big deal to be a starting QB, WR, RB at any of the P5 schools in a way that it's not at Wyoming. If a player has a shot at that and the rules don't prevent it, they will leave and no coach can stop that. IMO this is not dependant on players being "happy". What if Neyor had double the touches? Triple? I don't think it matters. This is about money and the opportunity to play in big time college football games... Neither of which are available at Wyoming.

The other guys leaving in large numbers, I do believe Bohl has more control over (still largely out of his control). This is where the "happy" player affect is more of a big deal. This comes down to winning. If Wyoming had ten wins this year... Who is leaving? I think Neyor leaves and that is pretty much it. Are you a good underclassman on a barely .500 team? Those are the players that will leave.

You’re right. There is virtually zero chance that Wyoming can keep a generational talent like Neyor. It would be damn near stupidity for a player like that to turn down the money.

But, as you indicate, every other player leaving makes much less sense. All of those players (other than Murray and Chambers) were starters at Wyoming and are fringe talent guys. These guys might think the grass is greener but all of them stand a good chance of getting beat out for a starting spot at their new programs and then riding the pine. They are all leaving to different schemes and will have a learning curve to catch up to the players already in the various programs. To be honest, I wouldn’t be surprised if a couple of them realize that they are in little demand compared to what they thought and end up pulling their names from the transfer portal.

you talk about money a lot. For a guy like Neyor, what will his NIL come out to? Who knows, but max 100k, I would think, and that’s after he proves himself for a year or two if he proves himself. That is a drop in the bucket in what his career earnings will amount to assuming his current path here at Wyoming. Fact: he is on a path to get drafted here at Wyoming. Will he catch on at USC or wherever he goes? Maybe maybe not. Probably, but a lot of things can happen. A coach could end up hating his guts. What if he catches 40 balls 400 yards and two TDs the next two years? Will he get drafted higher than being a 1,000 yard receiver here at Wyoming? Doesn’t seem like it. Neyor will have to positively ball out to eclipse what he has here at Wyoming.It is a PROVEN FACT you can go as high as you want playing here at Wyoming. Neyor does not have a long term perspective in mind imo. Plus he’s poop on a lot of people and I know everyone disagrees, but this says a lot about a person and I still don’t care. Why would Neyor show any loyalty to say, Buffalo bills if he gets drafted there? That’s a strike against him. I will laugh my ass off if it does not work out for neyor, it probably will, but I sure as hell won’t be rooting for him

I admit I don't have all the facts or answers either. All I see is a bunch of players - not all, but most of them - who got full ride scholarships (that our money contributed to) who feel they are entitled to leave the program that recruited them with no loyalty to it at all. That is like the wife (or husband) who stays married until something better comes along. There is no integrity or character in that the way I see it. I can see many donors pulling their donations to their college programs from now on.

LanderPoke wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 1:17 pmyou talk about money a lot. For a guy like Neyor, what will his NIL come out to? Who knows, but max 100k, I would think, and that’s after he proves himself for a year or two if he proves himself. That is a drop in the bucket in what his career earnings will amount to assuming his current path here at Wyoming. Fact: he is on a path to get drafted here at Wyoming. Will he catch on at USC or wherever he goes? Maybe maybe not. Probably, but a lot of things can happen. A coach could end up hating his guts. What if he catches 40 balls 400 yards and two TDs the next two years? Will he get drafted higher than being a 1,000 yard receiver here at Wyoming? Doesn’t seem like it. Neyor will have to positively ball out to eclipse what he has here at Wyoming.It is a PROVEN FACT you can go as high as you want playing here at Wyoming. Neyor does not have a long term perspective in mind imo. Plus he’s sh#t[#] on a lot of people and I know everyone disagrees, but this says a lot about a person and I still don’t care. Why would Neyor show any loyalty to say, Buffalo bills if he gets drafted there? That’s a strike against him. I will laugh my A$$ off if it does not work out for neyor, it probably will, but I sure as hell won’t be rooting for him

I pretty much agree with you on a lot of what you say here. But those are my personal beliefs... Not so much how I think the world actually operates. I don't get it at all for an athlete like Neyor to want to leave. I would have done anything for the chance to play for the pokes when I was younger. But, I understand that not everybody sees things through a similar lens. Not only that, but it's actually a good thing that they don't. We've speculated a ton on what is happening to drive the phenomenon but until somebody opens up and says the reason that they are leaving... All we have is speculation. There is a vanishingly small likelihood that what is happening in Laramie right now is explainable by players with no loyalty or a curmudgeonly coach... While all of that may be true, it falls short as an explanation for all of it. There is a broader context here that is incentivizing normal people to leave teams before bowl games... That didn't used to happen and it's accelerating.

This post probably makes more sense here when discusing Bohl's outdated philosophies that might be driving players to other programs.

BTW - in the talk about Bohl's philosophies and if you look at the Twitters of a few players (including Neyor), a few have re-tweeted an interview with Deion Sanders where Deion discusses why it is important to the players to have the names of players on the backs of jerseys and that he will always make sure that Jacksonville State has the money so that every player can have their name on a jersey. It isn't just random that Deion's interview was re-tweeted by a few Wyoming player; there was a purpose to that.

Because it does mean something to players and because the players put in the effort to earn that starting spot to that their family members can see them on the field, it is crazy to me that Bohl won't budge on that (even though I as a fan could care less whether the name is on the jersey or not).

This has been a thought provoking discussion. I'm pretty sure we have covered and speculated on just about every possible reason that Wyoming players are transferring. I read them and ... pretty much agree with them all. Do we have an exiting offense?...nope, names on jersey's? nope...Did Bohl handle the Williams/Chambers situation well? nope...Does the average recruit dream of spending their post high school years in Laramie? nope. All of these and more have been discussed. For me...none of them, alone or in aggregate explain what is happening...and here is why. Would any of this matter if we were winning 9+ games a year?...NOPE

Do all the weird stuff you want and if you win...it's eccentric and attractive....lose and every weird thing you do is put under the microscope, and is subject to critique. Take the jersey thing....If Bohl is winning 9+ games a year and a handful of conference championships, the no-name jersey thing is a positive. Same with the old school offense. Literally all of the things we have identified go from problems to reasons for success...even Laramie being the non-night life location becomes the town that does not distract the college student athletes so they can perform their best. Bohl may not be able to win big ... but it's not because of any of the stuff identified (well...maybe the inability to coach a modern offense) it may just be due to him being an average coach.

It's actually pretty simple. Those that leave for p5 possibilities will leave for p5 possibilities regardless of whatever feel good coach you want or names on jerseys or anything else.

Those that leave and won't find themselves on another fbs roster are primma donnas who would have found a reason to quit anyway.

Catering to quitters, regardless of their motive, is not the way. It will pass.

I feel like players in the past transferred because they didn't like the situation or for personal reasons. Now, with no restrictions, they'll leave at the possibility of improving their team.

Excluding someone like Neyor, a lot of these guys transferring aren't going to be hot commodities on the transfer market. In fact, many may be walk-ons at best. The assumption is that Bohl created a toxic environment or is too old to relate to kids these days.
Another angle to this is that you'll have a certain number of kids who want to transfer regardless. The new portal rules allow them to more freely explore options similar to their student peers. Best numbers I could find said 10-20% of undergrads transfer at least once. It would be interesting to see the attrition rate of the general student population at UW. We are assuming all these kids love football and are looking at it through a football lens. Maybe several realized they aren't super stars and decided they don't care if they play football. If they can find a lower less competitive situation, they'll do it. If not, they'll go closer to home and pay for school. Maybe the transfer rules are bringing transfer rates in line with the general student population.
Not Bohl's fault.