Jay Sawvel named head coach

[307bball]

We'll see what?? Who is predicting a good season next year? If Sawvell wins 8+ .... literally all of us will have predicted incorrectly.

I've about exhausted myself trying to coherently discuss our views of Bohl's retirement, Sawvell's hiring, and Burman's role in all of it. A lot of us (myself included) are fine with the hire...A lot of us (myself included) don't feel too optimistic and would have liked to see a different outcome. It is you who is heck-bent on drawing some inane line to divide people. If it turns out that Sawvell is a good hire and he has, at minimum, Bohl level of success...who is beating their chest about predicting that?? If he goes down spectacularly and takes the Burman administration down with him, Is that some sort of victory for you? All this forum-flexing talk about receipts and bookmarks is laughable when there is real disagreement, but it borders on pathological when there is not even a disagreement to be had.

As far as I can tell...the only thing I disagree with you on is the reason that Wyoming football has struggled. Even that is probably a disagreement in degree. From your perspective, what is it that you think next years results will reveal that will prove anything?

Who said you?

I'm sure if the wheels fall off, you're right. If it's a successful season, then you're wrong.

Me? I called it like I see it. A b.s. hiring process.

Of course I hope the fanboys can give it to me next year. Make no mistake, they will if the opportunity presents itself.

From your perspective, what is it that you think next years results will reveal that will prove anything?

[ZapPoke]

Guys this thread has become tiresome. I can’t wait for a year to see someone say I told you so and bring this all up again.

[OrediggerPoke]

Guys this thread has become tiresome. I can’t wait for a year to see someone say I told you so and bring this all up again.

I’m sure we will hear from a certain poster next year at this time when Wyoming fails to make the MWC championship game and finishes 7-5 and New Mexico State goes 0-3 in out of conference games (with losses to Fresno and New Mexico) but finishes at 8-4 to make the vaunted CUSA championship game.

It will be something like this - “told you all, had we hired Jerry Kill, Wyoming would be in the FBS playoffs…”

[ragtimejoe1]

Guys this thread has become tiresome. I can’t wait for a year to see someone say I told you so and bring this all up again.

I’m sure we will hear from a certain poster next year at this time when Wyoming fails to make the MWC championship game and finishes 7-5 and New Mexico State goes 0-3 in out of conference games (with losses to Fresno and New Mexico) but finishes at 8-4 to make the vaunted CUSA championship game.

It will be something like this - “told you all, had we hired Jerry Kill, Wyoming would be in the FBS playoffs…”

Still just want to just strawman instead of discussing Kill resume vs Sawvell? I would too. Your comment about Kill because of a single game is ridiculous and you know it. What's Sawvell's or Bohl's record against Fresno? I'd avoid that too.

As for Sawvell and 7-5, I'd say the fanboys would have reason to give it to me. I'd say in that case, it's probably exactly what Burman wanted (before it starts, yes, yes, he wants championships--17 years says he's willing to overlook that).

And I get accused of strawman, lmao.

[OrediggerPoke]

I’m sure we will hear from a certain poster next year at this time when Wyoming fails to make the MWC championship game and finishes 7-5 and New Mexico State goes 0-3 in out of conference games (with losses to Fresno and New Mexico) but finishes at 8-4 to make the vaunted CUSA championship game.

It will be something like this - “told you all, had we hired Jerry Kill, Wyoming would be in the FBS playoffs…”

Still just want to just strawman instead of discussing Kill resume vs Sawvell? I would too. Your comment about Kill because of a single game is ridiculous and you know it. What's Sawvell's or Bohl's record against Fresno? I'd avoid that too.

As for Sawvell and 7-5, I'd say the fanboys would have reason to give it to me. I'd say in that case, it's probably exactly what Burman wanted (before it starts, yes, yes, he wants championships--17 years says he's willing to overlook that).

And I get accused of strawman, lmao.

Let’s discuss Nick Saban’s resume against Jerry Kill. I’d rather have Nick Saban.

[ragtimejoe1]

Who said you?

I'm sure if the wheels fall off, you're right. If it's a successful season, then you're wrong.

Me? I called it like I see it. A b.s. hiring process.

Of course I hope the fanboys can give it to me next year. Make no mistake, they will if the opportunity presents itself.

From your perspective, what is it that you think next years results will reveal that will prove anything?

Already said it several times. 6-7 wins is probably exactly in line with the philosophy of this hire. 8-9 wins is probably in line with expected upside of this hire. 10+ and conference championship would be homerun with Burman being genius.

5 wins would probably get debated ad nauseum. For me, it shows the narrative about "not blowing up the program" is b.s. and everyone involved should be on the hot seat.

Less than 5 wins proves that the narrative of not blowing up the program is b.s. and all involved should be reassigned or fired.

[ragtimejoe1]

Still just want to just strawman instead of discussing Kill resume vs Sawvell? I would too. Your comment about Kill because of a single game is ridiculous and you know it. What's Sawvell's or Bohl's record against Fresno? I'd avoid that too.

As for Sawvell and 7-5, I'd say the fanboys would have reason to give it to me. I'd say in that case, it's probably exactly what Burman wanted (before it starts, yes, yes, he wants championships--17 years says he's willing to overlook that).

And I get accused of strawman, lmao.

Let’s discuss Nick Saban’s resume against Jerry Kill. I’d rather have Nick Saban.

I'd keep the strawman going too. Kill makes, what, 1/2 of Sawvell and has some of the worst facilities in fbs.

Like I said, your comment about Kill after 1 game against Fresno is ridiculous and you know it.

[307bball]

From your perspective, what is it that you think next years results will reveal that will prove anything?

Already said it several times. 6-7 wins is probably exactly in line with the philosophy of this hire. 8-9 wins is probably in line with expected upside of this hire. 10+ and conference championship would be homerun with Burman being genius.

5 wins would probably get debated ad nauseum. For me, it shows the narrative about "not blowing up the program" is b.s. and everyone involved should be on the hot seat.

Less than 5 wins proves that the narrative of not blowing up the program is b.s. and all involved should be reassigned or fired.

And the philosophy of the hire is what?....to not get worse by being stable? You seem to have a problem with the execution of that philosophy but do you not see the value in it? If it is a mistake to hire Sawvell...it will be because he's not a good HC...not because Burman's "philosophy" is faulty. Sawvell winning a bunch of games next year does not make Burman a genius.

Having listened to the interview of Burman...the narrative about "not blowing up the program" is a pretty big over-simplification. Seems like a lot of media and posters can't hold complicated thoughts in their heads and must boil everything down to an 8 second sound byte. Some players have commented that they appreciated the elevation of Sawvell to HC but that does not mean an internal hire won't be destructive.

To the extent that there is an overwhelming narrative of "not blowing up the program", it's mostly a media and forum confection. It happens to be something that Burman wants to avoid but it's not the only thing that is motivating him. The concrete is pretty dry on the Burman legacy at this point...I think you could call it mixed at best. He's been the AD for a very long time and most of the athletic results during his tenure can't really be described as "excellent"....not much that happens from here on out is going to change that barring scandal or some outlier football and men's basketball results.

IMO, there are a population of fans who you are giving voice to (and doing it well I might add) that are not accepting that Wyoming has, in fact, been left behind in the landscape of modern college athletics. This line of thinking will always place the blame on the person in charge. No matter how poorly Wyoming is able to recruit, no matter how little NIL money Wyoming is able to muster, no matter how small of a value broadcast partners place on airing Wyoming sports....it still is seen as primarily a failing by the coach or the athletic director or BOT that Wyoming is not having success. As a pokes fan for a very long time...this would have been my position in the post-Roach and Tiller years. I began to see the worm turn as the years have slid by. At this point, I would be shocked to my core to see a level of success in athletics at the University of Wyoming that was enjoyed from about 1985 to 1995. There is just no realistic pathway to that place....no matter who you put in those positions. Even a one-off conference championship, as much as I would enjoy that, does not change much. Nobody at our level is going to be able to have sustainable success...it just ain't going to happen.

This probably opens me up to all the versions of "why even try" or "that is accepting mediocrity".... If that is the road you want to take to avoid the hard truth...I guess there is nothing much to talk about. If you think I'm missing something, by all means, articulate the potential in Wyoming athletics that is heretofore untapped. I would love to not believe what I see playing out.

[OrediggerPoke]

Already said it several times. 6-7 wins is probably exactly in line with the philosophy of this hire. 8-9 wins is probably in line with expected upside of this hire. 10+ and conference championship would be homerun with Burman being genius.

5 wins would probably get debated ad nauseum. For me, it shows the narrative about "not blowing up the program" is b.s. and everyone involved should be on the hot seat.

Less than 5 wins proves that the narrative of not blowing up the program is b.s. and all involved should be reassigned or fired.

And the philosophy of the hire is what?....to not get worse by being stable? You seem to have a problem with the execution of that philosophy but do you not see the value in it? If it is a mistake to hire Sawvell...it will be because he's not a good HC...not because Burman's "philosophy" is faulty. Sawvell winning a bunch of games next year does not make Burman a genius.

Having listened to the interview of Burman...the narrative about "not blowing up the program" is a pretty big over-simplification. Seems like a lot of media and posters can't hold complicated thoughts in their heads and must boil everything down to an 8 second sound byte. Some players have commented that they appreciated the elevation of Sawvell to HC but that does not mean an internal hire won't be destructive.

To the extent that there is an overwhelming narrative of "not blowing up the program", it's mostly a media and forum confection. It happens to be something that Burman wants to avoid but it's not the only thing that is motivating him. The concrete is pretty dry on the Burman legacy at this point...I think you could call it mixed at best. He's been the AD for a very long time and most of the athletic results during his tenure can't really be described as "excellent"....not much that happens from here on out is going to change that barring scandal or some outlier football and men's basketball results.

IMO, there are a population of fans who you are giving voice to (and doing it well I might add) that are not accepting that Wyoming has, in fact, been left behind in the landscape of modern college athletics. This line of thinking will always place the blame on the person in charge. No matter how poorly Wyoming is able to recruit, no matter how little NIL money Wyoming is able to muster, no matter how small of a value broadcast partners place on airing Wyoming sports....it still is seen as primarily a failing by the coach or the athletic director or BOT that Wyoming is not having success. As a pokes fan for a very long time...this would have been my position in the post-Roach and Tiller years. I began to see the worm turn as the years have slid by. At this point, I would be shocked to my core to see a level of success in athletics at the University of Wyoming that was enjoyed from about 1985 to 1995. There is just no realistic pathway to that place....no matter who you put in those positions. Even a one-off conference championship, as much as I would enjoy that, does not change much. Nobody at our level is going to be able to have sustainable success...it just ain't going to happen.

This probably opens me up to all the versions of "why even try" or "that is accepting mediocrity".... If that is the road you want to take to avoid the hard truth...I guess there is nothing much to talk about. If you think I'm missing something, by all means, articulate the potential in Wyoming athletics that is heretofore untapped. I would love to not believe what I see playing out.

This is pretty well summarized.

The only untapped resource for Wyoming athletics is for a very rich person to leave their entire estate in trust for the athletics’ department or for NIL payments to athletes. I don’t see that happening. But hey you never know.

BTW - my very early prediction for next year based on our opponents is 6-6 subject to spring roster turnover. I believe this will get many of those in the Wyoming fanbase fired up about how we are underperforming.

[ragtimejoe1]

And the philosophy of the hire is what?....to not get worse by being stable? You seem to have a problem with the execution of that philosophy but do you not see the value in it? If it is a mistake to hire Sawvell...it will be because he's not a good HC...not because Burman's "philosophy" is faulty. Sawvell winning a bunch of games next year does not make Burman a genius.

Having listened to the interview of Burman...the narrative about "not blowing up the program" is a pretty big over-simplification. Seems like a lot of media and posters can't hold complicated thoughts in their heads and must boil everything down to an 8 second sound byte. Some players have commented that they appreciated the elevation of Sawvell to HC but that does not mean an internal hire won't be destructive.

To the extent that there is an overwhelming narrative of "not blowing up the program", it's mostly a media and forum confection. It happens to be something that Burman wants to avoid but it's not the only thing that is motivating him. The concrete is pretty dry on the Burman legacy at this point...I think you could call it mixed at best. He's been the AD for a very long time and most of the athletic results during his tenure can't really be described as "excellent"....not much that happens from here on out is going to change that barring scandal or some outlier football and men's basketball results.

IMO, there are a population of fans who you are giving voice to (and doing it well I might add) that are not accepting that Wyoming has, in fact, been left behind in the landscape of modern college athletics. This line of thinking will always place the blame on the person in charge. No matter how poorly Wyoming is able to recruit, no matter how little NIL money Wyoming is able to muster, no matter how small of a value broadcast partners place on airing Wyoming sports....it still is seen as primarily a failing by the coach or the athletic director or BOT that Wyoming is not having success. As a pokes fan for a very long time...this would have been my position in the post-Roach and Tiller years. I began to see the worm turn as the years have slid by. At this point, I would be shocked to my core to see a level of success in athletics at the University of Wyoming that was enjoyed from about 1985 to 1995. There is just no realistic pathway to that place....no matter who you put in those positions. Even a one-off conference championship, as much as I would enjoy that, does not change much. Nobody at our level is going to be able to have sustainable success...it just ain't going to happen.

This probably opens me up to all the versions of "why even try" or "that is accepting mediocrity".... If that is the road you want to take to avoid the hard truth...I guess there is nothing much to talk about. If you think I'm missing something, by all means, articulate the potential in Wyoming athletics that is heretofore untapped. I would love to not believe what I see playing out.

This is pretty well summarized.

The only untapped resource for Wyoming athletics is for a very rich person to leave their entire estate in trust for the athletics’ department or for NIL payments to athletes. I don’t see that happening. But hey you never know.

BTW - my very early prediction for next year based on our opponents is 6-6 subject to spring roster turnover. I believe this will get many of those in the Wyoming fanbase fired up about how we are underperforming.

If we're not expecting to compete with suds, Fresno, bsu, etc., we might as well pack in the damn football team.

Sheesh.

[OrediggerPoke]

This is pretty well summarized.

The only untapped resource for Wyoming athletics is for a very rich person to leave their entire estate in trust for the athletics’ department or for NIL payments to athletes. I don’t see that happening. But hey you never know.

BTW - my very early prediction for next year based on our opponents is 6-6 subject to spring roster turnover. I believe this will get many of those in the Wyoming fanbase fired up about how we are underperforming.

If we're not expecting to compete with suds, Fresno, bsu, etc., we might as well pack in the damn football team.

Sheesh.

Boise just paid a running back $300,000, a car and a house for next year. Hate to tell you but we aren’t even in Boise’s realm of NIL.

SDSU will be much improved on offense but I believe we will be better than them.

[ragtimejoe1]

If we're not expecting to compete with suds, Fresno, bsu, etc., we might as well pack in the damn football team.

Sheesh.

Boise just paid a running back $300,000, a car and a house for next year. Hate to tell you but we aren’t even in Boise’s realm of NIL.

Then we're idiots for fielding a football team with the goal of 5th place in the MWC.

[OrediggerPoke]

Boise just paid a running back $300,000, a car and a house for next year. Hate to tell you but we aren’t even in Boise’s realm of NIL.

Then we're idiots for fielding a football team with the goal of 5th place in the MWC.

Most of the teams in FBS are idiots for the insane money they are throwing at their programs and players with no chance to be elite given the new dynamics.

The ‘goal’ isn’t 5th place in the MWC. The reality is that we are in the bottom half of the conference in terms of NIL. That said, I won’t be wasting my money on NIL.

[ragtimejoe1]

Then we're idiots for fielding a football team with the goal of 5th place in the MWC.

Most of the teams in FBS are idiots for the insane money they are throwing at their programs and players with no chance to be elite given the new dynamics.

The ‘goal’ isn’t 5th place in the MWC. The reality is that we are in the bottom half of the conference in terms of NIL. That said, I won’t be wasting my money on NIL.

I believe the impact of nil within conference is overblown.

If you're right, we should pray the pac poaches the top mwc teams and leaves us where we belong. Wherever that is. Adding 2 more larger budget teams will make our external factors so inhibitory that now making a bowl game will now be unrealistic.
If the bowl system blows up when the big dog s separate and we have a new playoff system, we'd never make them.

[307bball]

Most of the teams in FBS are idiots for the insane money they are throwing at their programs and players with no chance to be elite given the new dynamics.

The ‘goal’ isn’t 5th place in the MWC. The reality is that we are in the bottom half of the conference in terms of NIL. That said, I won’t be wasting my money on NIL.

I believe the impact of nil within conference is overblown.

If you're right, we should pray the pac poaches the top mwc teams and leaves us where we belong. Wherever that is. Adding 2 more larger budget teams will make our external factors so inhibitory that now making a bowl game will now be unrealistic.
If the bowl system blows up when the big dog s separate and we have a new playoff system, we'd never make them.

Man I hope you are right as it relates to our conference, but i'm not seeing it. The players are reacting to raw economic forces that are, right now, very unregulated. Setting aside, for the moment, the gold rush nature of it....We are not competitive, today, with SUDS, Fresno, or BSU in NIL potential to players....that will absolutely destroy our ability to compete favorably with them. And I think you are correct in that, if tomorrow, the MWC adds two teams that may even be higher than those three...our odds don't get better..they get worse.

And don't get confused by the random bounce of the ball .... FCS teams have beaten FBS teams from time to time...it does not mean that they are competing on an even footing.

[307bball]

Then we're idiots for fielding a football team with the goal of 5th place in the MWC.

Most of the teams in FBS are idiots for the insane money they are throwing at their programs and players with no chance to be elite given the new dynamics.

The ‘goal’ isn’t 5th place in the MWC. The reality is that we are in the bottom half of the conference in terms of NIL. That said, I won’t be wasting my money on NIL.

That is correct...but I would add that the schools participating in college football are not taking part in a fair sports league like the NFL or NBA is trying to do. It makes more sense when you view it as a lever to increase alumni engagement and market visibility with a low probability upside where you get fantastic returns when your school cracks the elite 8 in basketball or you have a QB like Josh Allen that becomes the face of an NFL franchise.

[ragtimejoe1]

I believe the impact of nil within conference is overblown.

If you're right, we should pray the pac poaches the top mwc teams and leaves us where we belong. Wherever that is. Adding 2 more larger budget teams will make our external factors so inhibitory that now making a bowl game will now be unrealistic.
If the bowl system blows up when the big dog s separate and we have a new playoff system, we'd never make them.

Man I hope you are right as it relates to our conference, but i'm not seeing it. The players are reacting to raw economic forces that are, right now, very unregulated. Setting aside, for the moment, the gold rush nature of it....We are not competitive, today, with SUDS, Fresno, or BSU in NIL potential to players....that will absolutely destroy our ability to compete favorably with them. And I think you are correct in that, if tomorrow, the MWC adds two teams that may even be higher than those three...our odds don't get better..they get worse.

And don't get confused by the random bounce of the ball .... FCS teams have beaten FBS teams from time to time...it does not mean that they are competing on an even footing.

Then we should be working towards cusa, sun belt, or fcs. To remain in the mwc is a fool's errand for all sports.

[OrediggerPoke]

Man I hope you are right as it relates to our conference, but i'm not seeing it. The players are reacting to raw economic forces that are, right now, very unregulated. Setting aside, for the moment, the gold rush nature of it....We are not competitive, today, with SUDS, Fresno, or BSU in NIL potential to players....that will absolutely destroy our ability to compete favorably with them. And I think you are correct in that, if tomorrow, the MWC adds two teams that may even be higher than those three...our odds don't get better..they get worse.

And don't get confused by the random bounce of the ball .... FCS teams have beaten FBS teams from time to time...it does not mean that they are competing on an even footing.

Then we should be working towards cusa, sun belt, or fcs. To remain in the mwc is a fool's errand for all sports.

No. We should continue to seek a regional conference such as the MWC. There are other sports besides football and basketball to consider. A joke is teams like Cal and Stanford throwing all of their sports in an Eastern conference purely for football and basketball motives.

[ragtimejoe1]

Then we should be working towards cusa, sun belt, or fcs. To remain in the mwc is a fool's errand for all sports.

No. We should continue to seek a regional conference such as the MWC. There are other sports besides football and basketball to consider. A joke is teams like Cal and Stanford throwing all of their sports in an Eastern conference purely for football and basketball motives.

Interesting. I would argue the big sky is regional and apparently closer to our level of being able to compete.

One thing that is revealed in this discussion, WYO athletics have been largely mediocre (at best). Some accept that mediocrity as the ceiling due to external factors.

I guess the accepting of mediocrity is true and the real debate is whether the acceptance of mediocrity is just a realist's perspective or an underachieving attitude.

[OrediggerPoke]

No. We should continue to seek a regional conference such as the MWC. There are other sports besides football and basketball to consider. A joke is teams like Cal and Stanford throwing all of their sports in an Eastern conference purely for football and basketball motives.

Interesting. I would argue the big sky is regional and apparently closer to our level of being able to compete.

One thing that is revealed in this discussion, WYO athletics have been largely mediocre (at best). Some accept that mediocrity as the ceiling due to external factors.

I guess the accepting of mediocrity is true and the real debate is whether the acceptance of mediocrity is just a realist's perspective or an underachieving attitude.

It’s pretty simple to me. Saying you ‘don’t accept mediocrity’ is absolutely hollow without action. Put your money where your mouth is and throw the money at NIL. But beating a drum saying ‘I don’t accept mediocrity’ while at the same time doing absolutely nothing about it other than complaining it is pretty lame and deserves an eye roll.

For me - I’ve been consistent. I believe NIL is a fool’s errand and thus my realistic expectations are adjusted accordingly. I have no desire to donate to the direct pockets of college kids so they can buy fancy cars.

BTW - we set aside money to donate every year. We have several charities we support. OneWyo and the other NIL collectives are not and will never be on that list.