Wyoming @ Denver

Everything Cowboy and Cowgirl Basketball, plus other Cowboy athletics
User avatar
LanderPoke
WyoNation Lifer
Posts: 11160
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:47 pm
Location: Laramie
Has liked: 586 times
Been liked: 236 times

ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:02 pm
seattlecowboy wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:59 pm
ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:56 pm Jesus they are not good. I am not impressed with Edwards brand of basketball. There’s more to basketball than hucking up threes and Swiss cheese defense. Its one thing to be dominated by Cincy, it’s a whole other ball of poop getting shothoused by f-word Denver. What a joke.
I think Edwards thinks he can bring Kentucky/Pitino basketball to Wyoming. The only problem is we don't get 4 and 5 start recruits up and down the bench. So it isn't going to work at Wyoming.
I don’t think Edwards knows what he’s doing honestly. Pitino can coach. Pitino can make adjustments. Pitino can manage a bench and put the best players in the best situations. Edwards has shown no ability (or desire) to do any of this.
Edwards is a good recruiter and a crappy coach. I don't see an offense other than piss it around the perimeter and jack a three.
User avatar
Wyo2dal
Bronco-Buster
Posts: 7392
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:36 pm
Location: Dome of Doom
Been liked: 1 time

That was hard to listen to, pretty glad I didn't have to watch it. Maybe that Oregon State win was a fluke or maybe they are just that awful.

I don't understand why Dalton got so many minutes if he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

Oh well maybe we'll pull off another respectable road win next week and this will be forgotten.
User avatar
seattlecowboy
WyoNation Addict
Posts: 3611
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:33 pm
Location: Seattle
Has liked: 2 times
Been liked: 15 times

LanderPoke wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:00 pm
seattlecowboy wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:59 pm
ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:56 pm Jesus they are not good. I am not impressed with Edwards brand of basketball. There’s more to basketball than hucking up threes and Swiss cheese defense. Its one thing to be dominated by Cincy, it’s a whole other ball of poop getting shothoused by f-word Denver. What a joke.
I think Edwards thinks he can bring Kentucky/Pitino basketball to Wyoming. The only problem is we don't get 4 and 5 start recruits up and down the bench. So it isn't going to work at Wyoming.
not sure what this means, but pretty sure those guys don't take more than half their shots from 3. They have great, long athletes that take it fearlessly to the rim
It means back in the 90's when Pitino coached at Kentucky and Edwards played for him those teams shot a lot of 3's but they also had a lot of good shooters and they ran up and down the court. BUT they also had guys down low that were athletic that could rebounds and get buckets inside. You know the 4 and 5 star recruit types. Something Wyoming doesn't get. Kentucky/Pitino ball in the 90's shot the 3 ball a lot and ran. Doubt they took half of their shots from 3 though.
Image

Follow me on Twitter for all of your Free/Paid sports wagers all year around. Football, Basketball, Baseball, Hockey, Soccer, Tennis, etc….

488-348 +721 Units won in 6.5 months follow @bet_chase on twitter….
User avatar
seattlecowboy
WyoNation Addict
Posts: 3611
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:33 pm
Location: Seattle
Has liked: 2 times
Been liked: 15 times

LanderPoke wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:03 pm
ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:02 pm
seattlecowboy wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:59 pm
ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:56 pm Jesus they are not good. I am not impressed with Edwards brand of basketball. There’s more to basketball than hucking up threes and Swiss cheese defense. Its one thing to be dominated by Cincy, it’s a whole other ball of poop getting shothoused by f-word Denver. What a joke.
I think Edwards thinks he can bring Kentucky/Pitino basketball to Wyoming. The only problem is we don't get 4 and 5 start recruits up and down the bench. So it isn't going to work at Wyoming.
I don’t think Edwards knows what he’s doing honestly. Pitino can coach. Pitino can make adjustments. Pitino can manage a bench and put the best players in the best situations. Edwards has shown no ability (or desire) to do any of this.
Edwards is a good recruiter and a crappy coach. I don't see an offense other than piss it around the perimeter and jack a three.

I don't think Edwards can hold Pitino's jock with coaching. Just meant he is trying to emulate that type of game at Wyoming.
Image

Follow me on Twitter for all of your Free/Paid sports wagers all year around. Football, Basketball, Baseball, Hockey, Soccer, Tennis, etc….

488-348 +721 Units won in 6.5 months follow @bet_chase on twitter….
User avatar
wyoair
Ranch Hand
Posts: 332
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:04 am
Location: Torrington, Wyoming

Adv8RU12 wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:58 pm
wyoair wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:52 pm It’s like watching Vigen coach sans basketball. Do the same thing over and over even if it’s not working because you know....adapting is for suckers.
But wait! If you change something, that means you were admitting you were wrong to start, and heaven forbid you can't admit that.
That and his coaching philosophy is that of if it works 1 out of 10 times it still works. Kinda like 99 no’s and 1 yes is still a yes.
User avatar
seattlecowboy
WyoNation Addict
Posts: 3611
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:33 pm
Location: Seattle
Has liked: 2 times
Been liked: 15 times

wyoair wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:16 pm
Adv8RU12 wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:58 pm
wyoair wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:52 pm It’s like watching Vigen coach sans basketball. Do the same thing over and over even if it’s not working because you know....adapting is for suckers.
But wait! If you change something, that means you were admitting you were wrong to start, and heaven forbid you can't admit that.
That and his coaching philosophy is that of if it works 1 out of 10 times it still works. Kinda like 99 no’s and 1 yes is still a yes.
Shoulda been a salesman :lol:
Image

Follow me on Twitter for all of your Free/Paid sports wagers all year around. Football, Basketball, Baseball, Hockey, Soccer, Tennis, etc….

488-348 +721 Units won in 6.5 months follow @bet_chase on twitter….
User avatar
wyoair
Ranch Hand
Posts: 332
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:04 am
Location: Torrington, Wyoming

seattlecowboy wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:20 pm
wyoair wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:16 pm
Adv8RU12 wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:58 pm
wyoair wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:52 pm It’s like watching Vigen coach sans basketball. Do the same thing over and over even if it’s not working because you know....adapting is for suckers.
But wait! If you change something, that means you were admitting you were wrong to start, and heaven forbid you can't admit that.
That and his coaching philosophy is that of if it works 1 out of 10 times it still works. Kinda like 99 no’s and 1 yes is still a yes.
Shoulda been a salesman :lol:
In a way he is. He sold everyone the idea that he could coach! :tickedoff:
User avatar
Cuttslam
WyoNation Addict
Posts: 2175
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:54 pm
Location: Goodyear, Arizona

LanderPoke wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:03 pm
ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:02 pm
seattlecowboy wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:59 pm
ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:56 pm Jesus they are not good. I am not impressed with Edwards brand of basketball. There’s more to basketball than hucking up threes and Swiss cheese defense. Its one thing to be dominated by Cincy, it’s a whole other ball of poop getting shothoused by f-word Denver. What a joke.
I think Edwards thinks he can bring Kentucky/Pitino basketball to Wyoming. The only problem is we don't get 4 and 5 start recruits up and down the bench. So it isn't going to work at Wyoming.
I don’t think Edwards knows what he’s doing honestly. Pitino can coach. Pitino can make adjustments. Pitino can manage a bench and put the best players in the best situations. Edwards has shown no ability (or desire) to do any of this.
Edwards is a good recruiter and a crappy coach. I don't see an offense other than piss it around the perimeter and jack a three.
Jury is still out in the recruiting aspect.
I BLEED BROWN AND GOLD.
Image
GoGoPokes
Buckaroo
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 10:51 pm

Best recruiter we ever had was Heath Schroyer, too bad he also was a horrible coach and figure head of Wyoming. The damage we could have done in the Mountain West is still disappointing to think about all these years later.

Desmar Jackson (helped improve a Southern Illinois team that was a doormat in the MVC before and after he was there)

Afam Muojeke (one of the best singular talents Wyoming has had this decade but extremely hard to watch and cheer for since he had the ball 90% of the time)

Amath M'Baye (key figure in Oklahoma's NCAA tournament teams)

Thomas Manzano (don't know what happened to him, but could tell when he hit the floor that he was physically a superior athlete than just about anybody on the floor)

A.J. Davis (helped lead James Madison to a First Four win in the NCAA tournament)

Sean Ogirri (best 3 pt shooter in the program's history)
TSpoke
A Real Cowboy
Posts: 1435
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:08 am

Jeez. We are already done with this team and coach huh? That was quick. Just a week ago we were talking about competing for a championship. I watched every second of that ugly game and was as mad/frustrated as I've been in a long time but I still believe in this team. Its hard to win when we shoot like that at one point in the second half James and Dalton were a combined 2-21 from the field. That's amazing. James came around and started getting some baskets late in the game. Dalton should have been pulled. He couldn't hit a shot and wouldn't do anything other than launch up 3 after 3.
Thought early in the 2nd half we did a decent job attacking and getting fouls on them. Then we got them to the double bonus and stopped attacking the rim and started jacking 3's again. If we had kept attacking when we pulled it close we could have still pulled it out despite our shooting.
I am fine with shooting 3's being a major part of our offense but we have to have a plan when things are not falling. I guess shooters always believe the next one is going in so when we kick it out and they are open they will shoot even when they aren't hitting them. I think the team can learn from this moving forward. If I remember correctly we always seem to have our worst shooting nights playing in that hockey arena.
The rebounding stats look bad but I'm not as concerned as I could be. They had 21 TO's which is a good thing but it takes away Dreb opportunities if we are looking at those stats. Plus we shot MUCH worse than they did which gave them more Dreb opportunities than we had. I would like to see us go for more offensive boards but that has been a thing since the Shyatt days and now we at least try a little bit compared to back then.

One positive from this game I can see is we only had 5 turnovers. Early in the year we were very sloppy and this game they seemed to get that figured out. Hopefully that sticks.

I was as angry after that game as anyone but its a long season and I am not giving up on this team or coaching staff anytime soon. We have some weaknesses(interior defense vs big bodies) but I still think we can do some god things this year and will be fun to watch.
User avatar
ItSucksToBeACSURam
WyoNation Addict
Posts: 4683
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:53 pm

TSpoke wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:10 am Jeez. We are already done with this team and coach huh? That was quick. Just a week ago we were talking about competing for a championship. I watched every second of that ugly game and was as mad/frustrated as I've been in a long time but I still believe in this team. Its hard to win when we shoot like that at one point in the second half James and Dalton were a combined 2-21 from the field. That's amazing. James came around and started getting some baskets late in the game. Dalton should have been pulled. He couldn't hit a shot and wouldn't do anything other than launch up 3 after 3.
Thought early in the 2nd half we did a decent job attacking and getting fouls on them. Then we got them to the double bonus and stopped attacking the rim and started jacking 3's again. If we had kept attacking when we pulled it close we could have still pulled it out despite our shooting.
I am fine with shooting 3's being a major part of our offense but we have to have a plan when things are not falling. I guess shooters always believe the next one is going in so when we kick it out and they are open they will shoot even when they aren't hitting them. I think the team can learn from this moving forward. If I remember correctly we always seem to have our worst shooting nights playing in that hockey arena.
The rebounding stats look bad but I'm not as concerned as I could be. They had 21 TO's which is a good thing but it takes away Dreb opportunities if we are looking at those stats. Plus we shot MUCH worse than they did which gave them more Dreb opportunities than we had. I would like to see us go for more offensive boards but that has been a thing since the Shyatt days and now we at least try a little bit compared to back then.

One positive from this game I can see is we only had 5 turnovers. Early in the year we were very sloppy and this game they seemed to get that figured out. Hopefully that sticks.

I was as angry after that game as anyone but its a long season and I am not giving up on this team or coaching staff anytime soon. We have some weaknesses(interior defense vs big bodies) but I still think we can do some god things this year and will be fun to watch.
This team is very easy to root for when they are hitting their 3s. They are electric. When they aren't, they are very hard to watch.

As far coaching, its easy to coach when things are going great, when the shots are dropping and everything is going right. Even Shroyer couldn't mess that up. What separates average coaches from great coaches is what they do when shots aren't dropping and nothing is going right. Right now Edwards doesn't seem able (or interested) to adjust his philosophies and sets when we aren't hitting. Last night was a perfect example of this. It may have been one of the worst shooting games I have seen a Wyoming team have. It was B.R.U.T.A.L. AE did nothing to change up the sets. They kept running the same plays to the same results. Granted, last night was really compounded by not playing defense, missing point blank high % shots, and missing FTs but I am not seeing much from Edwards in coaching up his players. He sulks, he yells, he chews out players, and generally has awful body language. Things like this affect the players, they can feed off it negatively. I would like to see him turn that emotion and that fire into coaching "TEAM" moments, not petty "ME" moments.

I don't think AE should be fired after last night but I think this season should be used as a gauge to if he has the chops to lead this Wyoming team in the future. This team has a ton of talent but does not play to that talent. Why we aren't a slash first team is beyond me. Outside of Cincy, we have had the best athletes on the court in every game but refuse to use it. I certainly don't claim to be a basketball expert but I understand that when you have an advantage you should use it. SO far we are not using it.
Image
stymeman
Bronco-Buster
Posts: 7214
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:40 pm
Location: Cheyenne, again
Has liked: 4 times
Been liked: 42 times

Magness Arena is truly a thorn in our side, don't understand why we can't win down there??? oh well
Lost Poke
Cowpoke
Posts: 530
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:26 am
Been liked: 15 times

I saw the same thing last night I have seen so many times from all types of Poke teams in Magness Arena and it's overwhelming dozens of fans:
They looked lethargic.

Evidence:
- DU's Amigo is OK. But he outran us a few times. He scored while standing on the baseline because no one rotated to cover him or lost him in their not-very-fast-motion offense
- Shots had flat trajectories. No legs behind them
- There was little motion after we shot, therefore our offensive rebounding was non-existent.

I actually did get a bit PO'd that Dalton was still shooting threes after missing his first four shots. When you don't have it one night, then you need to just pass or drive.
NowherePoke
A Real Cowboy
Posts: 1951
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 12:07 pm
Been liked: 6 times

TSpoke wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:10 am Jeez. We are already done with this team and coach huh? That was quick. Just a week ago we were talking about competing for a championship. I watched every second of that ugly game and was as mad/frustrated as I've been in a long time but I still believe in this team. Its hard to win when we shoot like that at one point in the second half James and Dalton were a combined 2-21 from the field. That's amazing. James came around and started getting some baskets late in the game. Dalton should have been pulled. He couldn't hit a shot and wouldn't do anything other than launch up 3 after 3.
Thought early in the 2nd half we did a decent job attacking and getting fouls on them. Then we got them to the double bonus and stopped attacking the rim and started jacking 3's again. If we had kept attacking when we pulled it close we could have still pulled it out despite our shooting.
I am fine with shooting 3's being a major part of our offense but we have to have a plan when things are not falling. I guess shooters always believe the next one is going in so when we kick it out and they are open they will shoot even when they aren't hitting them. I think the team can learn from this moving forward. If I remember correctly we always seem to have our worst shooting nights playing in that hockey arena.
The rebounding stats look bad but I'm not as concerned as I could be. They had 21 TO's which is a good thing but it takes away Dreb opportunities if we are looking at those stats. Plus we shot MUCH worse than they did which gave them more Dreb opportunities than we had. I would like to see us go for more offensive boards but that has been a thing since the Shyatt days and now we at least try a little bit compared to back then.

One positive from this game I can see is we only had 5 turnovers. Early in the year we were very sloppy and this game they seemed to get that figured out. Hopefully that sticks.

I was as angry after that game as anyone but its a long season and I am not giving up on this team or coaching staff anytime soon. We have some weaknesses(interior defense vs big bodies) but I still think we can do some god things this year and will be fun to watch.
In terms of this year, it kind of depends on what the goal was. In terms of an at-large bid to the NIT (or NCAA), than this year is over now. This team was never going to compete with Nevada for a regular season title either way, so the top end goals are basically done.

Every game counts, so there is still plenty to play for, but I think in general when you have a veteran squad with 4 seniors (and 2 juniors) in your top 7 players, you should at least be targeting a NIT berth.

We aren't the type of program that is going to compete for a NCAA berth every year, but I think we need to be on a cycle where we compete every 3-4 years as a group develops and becomes upperclassmen. We saw it in 2014-15 with the Nance/Adams group. That group wouldn't have earned an at-large bid, but they were definitely competing for one until Nance got Mono (and of course, they came though and won the MWCT).

We had rebuilding years in 2015-16 and 2016-17 and should have seen things move forward this year, but it just hasn't happened. Still a lot to play for, every game counts and we could still at least have a winning season if we improve, but from a big picture perspective not sure where this program is really headed.

Schroyer taught us that things could always be worse, so I appreciate the relative competitiveness of the current team, but was hoping for more.
TSpoke
A Real Cowboy
Posts: 1435
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:08 am

NowherePoke wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:20 pm
TSpoke wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:10 am Jeez. We are already done with this team and coach huh? That was quick. Just a week ago we were talking about competing for a championship. I watched every second of that ugly game and was as mad/frustrated as I've been in a long time but I still believe in this team. Its hard to win when we shoot like that at one point in the second half James and Dalton were a combined 2-21 from the field. That's amazing. James came around and started getting some baskets late in the game. Dalton should have been pulled. He couldn't hit a shot and wouldn't do anything other than launch up 3 after 3.
Thought early in the 2nd half we did a decent job attacking and getting fouls on them. Then we got them to the double bonus and stopped attacking the rim and started jacking 3's again. If we had kept attacking when we pulled it close we could have still pulled it out despite our shooting.
I am fine with shooting 3's being a major part of our offense but we have to have a plan when things are not falling. I guess shooters always believe the next one is going in so when we kick it out and they are open they will shoot even when they aren't hitting them. I think the team can learn from this moving forward. If I remember correctly we always seem to have our worst shooting nights playing in that hockey arena.
The rebounding stats look bad but I'm not as concerned as I could be. They had 21 TO's which is a good thing but it takes away Dreb opportunities if we are looking at those stats. Plus we shot MUCH worse than they did which gave them more Dreb opportunities than we had. I would like to see us go for more offensive boards but that has been a thing since the Shyatt days and now we at least try a little bit compared to back then.

One positive from this game I can see is we only had 5 turnovers. Early in the year we were very sloppy and this game they seemed to get that figured out. Hopefully that sticks.

I was as angry after that game as anyone but its a long season and I am not giving up on this team or coaching staff anytime soon. We have some weaknesses(interior defense vs big bodies) but I still think we can do some god things this year and will be fun to watch.
In terms of this year, it kind of depends on what the goal was. In terms of an at-large bid to the NIT (or NCAA), than this year is over now. This team was never going to compete with Nevada for a regular season title either way, so the top end goals are basically done.

Every game counts, so there is still plenty to play for, but I think in general when you have a veteran squad with 4 seniors (and 2 juniors) in your top 7 players, you should at least be targeting a NIT berth.

We aren't the type of program that is going to compete for a NCAA berth every year, but I think we need to be on a cycle where we compete every 3-4 years as a group develops and becomes upperclassmen. We saw it in 2014-15 with the Nance/Adams group. That group wouldn't have earned an at-large bid, but they were definitely competing for one until Nance got Mono (and of course, they came though and won the MWCT).

We had rebuilding years in 2015-16 and 2016-17 and should have seen things move forward this year, but it just hasn't happened. Still a lot to play for, every game counts and we could still at least have a winning season if we improve, but from a big picture perspective not sure where this program is really headed.

Schroyer taught us that things could always be worse, so I appreciate the relative competitiveness of the current team, but was hoping for more.
Well I guess its time to pack it in then. I didn't know that an early game against DU was the game the entire season hinged on. I get it this is a bad loss but by the end of the year this loss is not going to be the one thing standing between us and a NCAA bid. Nevada was as big of favorite to win the conference before this game as it is now.
This game changes nothing for me. Nevada is still the major favorites to win the conference but I want and expect to compete in the conference with a experienced team. I expect us to be in the top 3 or 4 and who knows maybe end up knocking off Nevada. Not likely to knock them off before the DU game and not likely to happen afterwards. But I expect us to give it a run and I look forward to seeing how we match up with the conference.

To me nothing changed after the game. We are still a good team with the same flaws we always had. I can't remember a time we haven't struggled in Clune. Last time we were there we didn't hit 1 three pointer. Its nothing new. The thing that bugs me the most from the game was Dalton's refusal to try something different and continuing to jack up 3's.

I am not trying to attack anyone or anything like that. I too have really high expectations for this team. I think they have the talent and the pieces to be very good so last night was very frustrating to watch but one awful game is not enough for me to change my mind on the potential of this team. If we fall apart and loss a couple more games like this one then I will have to change my mind.
stymeman
Bronco-Buster
Posts: 7214
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:40 pm
Location: Cheyenne, again
Has liked: 4 times
Been liked: 42 times

Lost Poke wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:12 pm I saw the same thing last night I have seen so many times from all types of Poke teams in Magness Arena and it's overwhelming dozens of fans:
They looked lethargic.

Evidence:
- DU's Amigo is OK. But he outran us a few times. He scored while standing on the baseline because no one rotated to cover him or lost him in their not-very-fast-motion offense
- Shots had flat trajectories. No legs behind them
- There was little motion after we shot, therefore our offensive rebounding was non-existent.

I actually did get a bit PO'd that Dalton was still shooting threes after missing his first four shots. When you don't have it one night, then you need to just pass or drive.
Saw Def Leppard there once, thought it was a pretty neat, small arena
LifeItself
Buckaroo
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:45 pm

"The thing that bugs me the most from the game was Dalton's refusal to try something different and continuing to jack up 3's."

Couldn't agree more. He wasn't letting the game come to him. Too many family members and friends in the stands so he was pressing like I've never seen. That and the combination of the, "out of this world", hot start for DU put us behind the eight ball early. Given all that, when we cut it to 6 or 7 we still had a chance to win the game.

I agree with TS.. I don't mind taking the open shot even if it's a three (depending on the shooter that is). Most of the shots they took were decent looks. The missing of those shots just accentuated the forced shots.

The only AE criticism I had was no answer down low. I put much of that on our bigs too. Momeka doesn't hold his ground and was constantly moving his feet like he was on skates. Maybe that's not the position for him but the only alternative didn't get off the bench.

I still think this team can have a solid year and I'm not letting this one game seal their fate.

Oh and the other thing that bugged me was the announcer continually calling JJ third team MWC
NowherePoke
A Real Cowboy
Posts: 1951
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 12:07 pm
Been liked: 6 times

TSpoke wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:46 pm
NowherePoke wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:20 pm
TSpoke wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:10 am Jeez. We are already done with this team and coach huh? That was quick. Just a week ago we were talking about competing for a championship. I watched every second of that ugly game and was as mad/frustrated as I've been in a long time but I still believe in this team. Its hard to win when we shoot like that at one point in the second half James and Dalton were a combined 2-21 from the field. That's amazing. James came around and started getting some baskets late in the game. Dalton should have been pulled. He couldn't hit a shot and wouldn't do anything other than launch up 3 after 3.
Thought early in the 2nd half we did a decent job attacking and getting fouls on them. Then we got them to the double bonus and stopped attacking the rim and started jacking 3's again. If we had kept attacking when we pulled it close we could have still pulled it out despite our shooting.
I am fine with shooting 3's being a major part of our offense but we have to have a plan when things are not falling. I guess shooters always believe the next one is going in so when we kick it out and they are open they will shoot even when they aren't hitting them. I think the team can learn from this moving forward. If I remember correctly we always seem to have our worst shooting nights playing in that hockey arena.
The rebounding stats look bad but I'm not as concerned as I could be. They had 21 TO's which is a good thing but it takes away Dreb opportunities if we are looking at those stats. Plus we shot MUCH worse than they did which gave them more Dreb opportunities than we had. I would like to see us go for more offensive boards but that has been a thing since the Shyatt days and now we at least try a little bit compared to back then.

One positive from this game I can see is we only had 5 turnovers. Early in the year we were very sloppy and this game they seemed to get that figured out. Hopefully that sticks.

I was as angry after that game as anyone but its a long season and I am not giving up on this team or coaching staff anytime soon. We have some weaknesses(interior defense vs big bodies) but I still think we can do some god things this year and will be fun to watch.
In terms of this year, it kind of depends on what the goal was. In terms of an at-large bid to the NIT (or NCAA), than this year is over now. This team was never going to compete with Nevada for a regular season title either way, so the top end goals are basically done.

Every game counts, so there is still plenty to play for, but I think in general when you have a veteran squad with 4 seniors (and 2 juniors) in your top 7 players, you should at least be targeting a NIT berth.

We aren't the type of program that is going to compete for a NCAA berth every year, but I think we need to be on a cycle where we compete every 3-4 years as a group develops and becomes upperclassmen. We saw it in 2014-15 with the Nance/Adams group. That group wouldn't have earned an at-large bid, but they were definitely competing for one until Nance got Mono (and of course, they came though and won the MWCT).

We had rebuilding years in 2015-16 and 2016-17 and should have seen things move forward this year, but it just hasn't happened. Still a lot to play for, every game counts and we could still at least have a winning season if we improve, but from a big picture perspective not sure where this program is really headed.

Schroyer taught us that things could always be worse, so I appreciate the relative competitiveness of the current team, but was hoping for more.
Well I guess its time to pack it in then. I didn't know that an early game against DU was the game the entire season hinged on. I get it this is a bad loss but by the end of the year this loss is not going to be the one thing standing between us and a NCAA bid. Nevada was as big of favorite to win the conference before this game as it is now.
This game changes nothing for me. Nevada is still the major favorites to win the conference but I want and expect to compete in the conference with a experienced team. I expect us to be in the top 3 or 4 and who knows maybe end up knocking off Nevada. Not likely to knock them off before the DU game and not likely to happen afterwards. But I expect us to give it a run and I look forward to seeing how we match up with the conference.

To me nothing changed after the game. We are still a good team with the same flaws we always had. I can't remember a time we haven't struggled in Clune. Last time we were there we didn't hit 1 three pointer. Its nothing new. The thing that bugs me the most from the game was Dalton's refusal to try something different and continuing to jack up 3's.

I am not trying to attack anyone or anything like that. I too have really high expectations for this team. I think they have the talent and the pieces to be very good so last night was very frustrating to watch but one awful game is not enough for me to change my mind on the potential of this team. If we fall apart and loss a couple more games like this one then I will have to change my mind.
One game, when you play in the MWC, absolutely can be the difference between NIT and CBI. Overall we play a pretty weak schedule OOC and in conference (although I think the MWC has the potential to be a 2-bid league this year instead of the one bid league we have been the last two years).

Realistically, our best case scenario now for OOC play is 10-3 with no Top 50 wins and one awful (sub 200) loss. That isn't going to get you anywhere.

The DU loss also removes any room for error. Now, we can't afford losses to Eastern Washington, Texas Southern, Northern Colorado, Drake or Pacific and all of them (except maybe Pacific) are better than DU. We get them all at home, but still.

I think your comments regarding the "same flaws we always had" is the source of frustration.
User avatar
calpoke25
A Real Cowboy
Posts: 1816
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:58 pm
Location: SoCal

TSpoke wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:46 pm
NowherePoke wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:20 pm
TSpoke wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:10 am Jeez. We are already done with this team and coach huh? That was quick. Just a week ago we were talking about competing for a championship. I watched every second of that ugly game and was as mad/frustrated as I've been in a long time but I still believe in this team. Its hard to win when we shoot like that at one point in the second half James and Dalton were a combined 2-21 from the field. That's amazing. James came around and started getting some baskets late in the game. Dalton should have been pulled. He couldn't hit a shot and wouldn't do anything other than launch up 3 after 3.
Thought early in the 2nd half we did a decent job attacking and getting fouls on them. Then we got them to the double bonus and stopped attacking the rim and started jacking 3's again. If we had kept attacking when we pulled it close we could have still pulled it out despite our shooting.
I am fine with shooting 3's being a major part of our offense but we have to have a plan when things are not falling. I guess shooters always believe the next one is going in so when we kick it out and they are open they will shoot even when they aren't hitting them. I think the team can learn from this moving forward. If I remember correctly we always seem to have our worst shooting nights playing in that hockey arena.
The rebounding stats look bad but I'm not as concerned as I could be. They had 21 TO's which is a good thing but it takes away Dreb opportunities if we are looking at those stats. Plus we shot MUCH worse than they did which gave them more Dreb opportunities than we had. I would like to see us go for more offensive boards but that has been a thing since the Shyatt days and now we at least try a little bit compared to back then.

One positive from this game I can see is we only had 5 turnovers. Early in the year we were very sloppy and this game they seemed to get that figured out. Hopefully that sticks.

I was as angry after that game as anyone but its a long season and I am not giving up on this team or coaching staff anytime soon. We have some weaknesses(interior defense vs big bodies) but I still think we can do some god things this year and will be fun to watch.
In terms of this year, it kind of depends on what the goal was. In terms of an at-large bid to the NIT (or NCAA), than this year is over now. This team was never going to compete with Nevada for a regular season title either way, so the top end goals are basically done.

Every game counts, so there is still plenty to play for, but I think in general when you have a veteran squad with 4 seniors (and 2 juniors) in your top 7 players, you should at least be targeting a NIT berth.

We aren't the type of program that is going to compete for a NCAA berth every year, but I think we need to be on a cycle where we compete every 3-4 years as a group develops and becomes upperclassmen. We saw it in 2014-15 with the Nance/Adams group. That group wouldn't have earned an at-large bid, but they were definitely competing for one until Nance got Mono (and of course, they came though and won the MWCT).

We had rebuilding years in 2015-16 and 2016-17 and should have seen things move forward this year, but it just hasn't happened. Still a lot to play for, every game counts and we could still at least have a winning season if we improve, but from a big picture perspective not sure where this program is really headed.

Schroyer taught us that things could always be worse, so I appreciate the relative competitiveness of the current team, but was hoping for more.
Well I guess its time to pack it in then. I didn't know that an early game against DU was the game the entire season hinged on. I get it this is a bad loss but by the end of the year this loss is not going to be the one thing standing between us and a NCAA bid. Nevada was as big of favorite to win the conference before this game as it is now.
This game changes nothing for me. Nevada is still the major favorites to win the conference but I want and expect to compete in the conference with a experienced team. I expect us to be in the top 3 or 4 and who knows maybe end up knocking off Nevada. Not likely to knock them off before the DU game and not likely to happen afterwards. But I expect us to give it a run and I look forward to seeing how we match up with the conference.

To me nothing changed after the game. We are still a good team with the same flaws we always had. I can't remember a time we haven't struggled in Clune. Last time we were there we didn't hit 1 three pointer. Its nothing new. The thing that bugs me the most from the game was Dalton's refusal to try something different and continuing to jack up 3's.

I am not trying to attack anyone or anything like that. I too have really high expectations for this team. I think they have the talent and the pieces to be very good so last night was very frustrating to watch but one awful game is not enough for me to change my mind on the potential of this team. If we fall apart and loss a couple more games like this one then I will have to change my mind.
Nothing may have changed for you, but our RPI sure did. It dropped 68 spots to 98 overnight. That most definitely takes us out of an NCAA at large situation.
TSpoke
A Real Cowboy
Posts: 1435
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:08 am

calpoke25 wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:12 pm
TSpoke wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:46 pm
NowherePoke wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:20 pm
TSpoke wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:10 am Jeez. We are already done with this team and coach huh? That was quick. Just a week ago we were talking about competing for a championship. I watched every second of that ugly game and was as mad/frustrated as I've been in a long time but I still believe in this team. Its hard to win when we shoot like that at one point in the second half James and Dalton were a combined 2-21 from the field. That's amazing. James came around and started getting some baskets late in the game. Dalton should have been pulled. He couldn't hit a shot and wouldn't do anything other than launch up 3 after 3.
Thought early in the 2nd half we did a decent job attacking and getting fouls on them. Then we got them to the double bonus and stopped attacking the rim and started jacking 3's again. If we had kept attacking when we pulled it close we could have still pulled it out despite our shooting.
I am fine with shooting 3's being a major part of our offense but we have to have a plan when things are not falling. I guess shooters always believe the next one is going in so when we kick it out and they are open they will shoot even when they aren't hitting them. I think the team can learn from this moving forward. If I remember correctly we always seem to have our worst shooting nights playing in that hockey arena.
The rebounding stats look bad but I'm not as concerned as I could be. They had 21 TO's which is a good thing but it takes away Dreb opportunities if we are looking at those stats. Plus we shot MUCH worse than they did which gave them more Dreb opportunities than we had. I would like to see us go for more offensive boards but that has been a thing since the Shyatt days and now we at least try a little bit compared to back then.

One positive from this game I can see is we only had 5 turnovers. Early in the year we were very sloppy and this game they seemed to get that figured out. Hopefully that sticks.

I was as angry after that game as anyone but its a long season and I am not giving up on this team or coaching staff anytime soon. We have some weaknesses(interior defense vs big bodies) but I still think we can do some god things this year and will be fun to watch.
In terms of this year, it kind of depends on what the goal was. In terms of an at-large bid to the NIT (or NCAA), than this year is over now. This team was never going to compete with Nevada for a regular season title either way, so the top end goals are basically done.

Every game counts, so there is still plenty to play for, but I think in general when you have a veteran squad with 4 seniors (and 2 juniors) in your top 7 players, you should at least be targeting a NIT berth.

We aren't the type of program that is going to compete for a NCAA berth every year, but I think we need to be on a cycle where we compete every 3-4 years as a group develops and becomes upperclassmen. We saw it in 2014-15 with the Nance/Adams group. That group wouldn't have earned an at-large bid, but they were definitely competing for one until Nance got Mono (and of course, they came though and won the MWCT).

We had rebuilding years in 2015-16 and 2016-17 and should have seen things move forward this year, but it just hasn't happened. Still a lot to play for, every game counts and we could still at least have a winning season if we improve, but from a big picture perspective not sure where this program is really headed.

Schroyer taught us that things could always be worse, so I appreciate the relative competitiveness of the current team, but was hoping for more.
Well I guess its time to pack it in then. I didn't know that an early game against DU was the game the entire season hinged on. I get it this is a bad loss but by the end of the year this loss is not going to be the one thing standing between us and a NCAA bid. Nevada was as big of favorite to win the conference before this game as it is now.
This game changes nothing for me. Nevada is still the major favorites to win the conference but I want and expect to compete in the conference with a experienced team. I expect us to be in the top 3 or 4 and who knows maybe end up knocking off Nevada. Not likely to knock them off before the DU game and not likely to happen afterwards. But I expect us to give it a run and I look forward to seeing how we match up with the conference.

To me nothing changed after the game. We are still a good team with the same flaws we always had. I can't remember a time we haven't struggled in Clune. Last time we were there we didn't hit 1 three pointer. Its nothing new. The thing that bugs me the most from the game was Dalton's refusal to try something different and continuing to jack up 3's.

I am not trying to attack anyone or anything like that. I too have really high expectations for this team. I think they have the talent and the pieces to be very good so last night was very frustrating to watch but one awful game is not enough for me to change my mind on the potential of this team. If we fall apart and loss a couple more games like this one then I will have to change my mind.
Nothing may have changed for you, but our RPI sure did. It dropped 68 spots to 98 overnight. That most definitely takes us out of an NCAA at large situation.
Well sure our RPI took a massive hit. Its early in the season. By the end of the year, the effect of this game won't have such a massive effect of our RPI. The loss definitely hurt and is a mark against us but it won't be the one thing keeping us from getting an at large bid. If that game is indicative of how we play for the rest of the year then we don't have to worry about any post season let alone a NCAA bid. If we finish OOC undefeated then have a great conference season we will see what happens, I don't know if our schedule is tough enough to get a bid even if we had won last night so I agree the loss hurts our RPI but over the course of the season there are lots of chances to make it better.

Plus the RPI isn't really used for selection at all. We need wins vs top 50 teams.Beat Drake on Saturday and get back on track then if we can pull of an upset in SC(very tough order) and everything last night will be forgiven.
Post Reply