Wyoming @ Denver

Everything Cowboy and Cowgirl Basketball, plus other Cowboy athletics
NowherePoke
A Real Cowboy
Posts: 1951
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 12:07 pm
Been liked: 6 times

TSpoke wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:43 pm
calpoke25 wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:12 pm
TSpoke wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:46 pm
NowherePoke wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:20 pm
TSpoke wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:10 am Jeez. We are already done with this team and coach huh? That was quick. Just a week ago we were talking about competing for a championship. I watched every second of that ugly game and was as mad/frustrated as I've been in a long time but I still believe in this team. Its hard to win when we shoot like that at one point in the second half James and Dalton were a combined 2-21 from the field. That's amazing. James came around and started getting some baskets late in the game. Dalton should have been pulled. He couldn't hit a shot and wouldn't do anything other than launch up 3 after 3.
Thought early in the 2nd half we did a decent job attacking and getting fouls on them. Then we got them to the double bonus and stopped attacking the rim and started jacking 3's again. If we had kept attacking when we pulled it close we could have still pulled it out despite our shooting.
I am fine with shooting 3's being a major part of our offense but we have to have a plan when things are not falling. I guess shooters always believe the next one is going in so when we kick it out and they are open they will shoot even when they aren't hitting them. I think the team can learn from this moving forward. If I remember correctly we always seem to have our worst shooting nights playing in that hockey arena.
The rebounding stats look bad but I'm not as concerned as I could be. They had 21 TO's which is a good thing but it takes away Dreb opportunities if we are looking at those stats. Plus we shot MUCH worse than they did which gave them more Dreb opportunities than we had. I would like to see us go for more offensive boards but that has been a thing since the Shyatt days and now we at least try a little bit compared to back then.

One positive from this game I can see is we only had 5 turnovers. Early in the year we were very sloppy and this game they seemed to get that figured out. Hopefully that sticks.

I was as angry after that game as anyone but its a long season and I am not giving up on this team or coaching staff anytime soon. We have some weaknesses(interior defense vs big bodies) but I still think we can do some god things this year and will be fun to watch.
In terms of this year, it kind of depends on what the goal was. In terms of an at-large bid to the NIT (or NCAA), than this year is over now. This team was never going to compete with Nevada for a regular season title either way, so the top end goals are basically done.

Every game counts, so there is still plenty to play for, but I think in general when you have a veteran squad with 4 seniors (and 2 juniors) in your top 7 players, you should at least be targeting a NIT berth.

We aren't the type of program that is going to compete for a NCAA berth every year, but I think we need to be on a cycle where we compete every 3-4 years as a group develops and becomes upperclassmen. We saw it in 2014-15 with the Nance/Adams group. That group wouldn't have earned an at-large bid, but they were definitely competing for one until Nance got Mono (and of course, they came though and won the MWCT).

We had rebuilding years in 2015-16 and 2016-17 and should have seen things move forward this year, but it just hasn't happened. Still a lot to play for, every game counts and we could still at least have a winning season if we improve, but from a big picture perspective not sure where this program is really headed.

Schroyer taught us that things could always be worse, so I appreciate the relative competitiveness of the current team, but was hoping for more.
Well I guess its time to pack it in then. I didn't know that an early game against DU was the game the entire season hinged on. I get it this is a bad loss but by the end of the year this loss is not going to be the one thing standing between us and a NCAA bid. Nevada was as big of favorite to win the conference before this game as it is now.
This game changes nothing for me. Nevada is still the major favorites to win the conference but I want and expect to compete in the conference with a experienced team. I expect us to be in the top 3 or 4 and who knows maybe end up knocking off Nevada. Not likely to knock them off before the DU game and not likely to happen afterwards. But I expect us to give it a run and I look forward to seeing how we match up with the conference.

To me nothing changed after the game. We are still a good team with the same flaws we always had. I can't remember a time we haven't struggled in Clune. Last time we were there we didn't hit 1 three pointer. Its nothing new. The thing that bugs me the most from the game was Dalton's refusal to try something different and continuing to jack up 3's.

I am not trying to attack anyone or anything like that. I too have really high expectations for this team. I think they have the talent and the pieces to be very good so last night was very frustrating to watch but one awful game is not enough for me to change my mind on the potential of this team. If we fall apart and loss a couple more games like this one then I will have to change my mind.
Nothing may have changed for you, but our RPI sure did. It dropped 68 spots to 98 overnight. That most definitely takes us out of an NCAA at large situation.
Well sure our RPI took a massive hit. Its early in the season. By the end of the year, the effect of this game won't have such a massive effect of our RPI. The loss definitely hurt and is a mark against us but it won't be the one thing keeping us from getting an at large bid. If that game is indicative of how we play for the rest of the year then we don't have to worry about any post season let alone a NCAA bid. If we finish OOC undefeated then have a great conference season we will see what happens, I don't know if our schedule is tough enough to get a bid even if we had won last night so I agree the loss hurts our RPI but over the course of the season there are lots of chances to make it better.

Plus the RPI isn't really used for selection at all. We need wins vs top 50 teams.Beat Drake on Saturday and get back on track then if we can pull of an upset in SC(very tough order) and everything last night will be forgiven.
Very good point about the RPI. Really less and less of a factor each year. Alternative ranking systems (KenPom, etc.), Top 50 wins, and P5 bias are all significant factors.
User avatar
calpoke25
A Real Cowboy
Posts: 1816
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:58 pm
Location: SoCal

NowherePoke wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:52 pm
TSpoke wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:43 pm
calpoke25 wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:12 pm
TSpoke wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:46 pm
NowherePoke wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:20 pm
TSpoke wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:10 am Jeez. We are already done with this team and coach huh? That was quick. Just a week ago we were talking about competing for a championship. I watched every second of that ugly game and was as mad/frustrated as I've been in a long time but I still believe in this team. Its hard to win when we shoot like that at one point in the second half James and Dalton were a combined 2-21 from the field. That's amazing. James came around and started getting some baskets late in the game. Dalton should have been pulled. He couldn't hit a shot and wouldn't do anything other than launch up 3 after 3.
Thought early in the 2nd half we did a decent job attacking and getting fouls on them. Then we got them to the double bonus and stopped attacking the rim and started jacking 3's again. If we had kept attacking when we pulled it close we could have still pulled it out despite our shooting.
I am fine with shooting 3's being a major part of our offense but we have to have a plan when things are not falling. I guess shooters always believe the next one is going in so when we kick it out and they are open they will shoot even when they aren't hitting them. I think the team can learn from this moving forward. If I remember correctly we always seem to have our worst shooting nights playing in that hockey arena.
The rebounding stats look bad but I'm not as concerned as I could be. They had 21 TO's which is a good thing but it takes away Dreb opportunities if we are looking at those stats. Plus we shot MUCH worse than they did which gave them more Dreb opportunities than we had. I would like to see us go for more offensive boards but that has been a thing since the Shyatt days and now we at least try a little bit compared to back then.

One positive from this game I can see is we only had 5 turnovers. Early in the year we were very sloppy and this game they seemed to get that figured out. Hopefully that sticks.

I was as angry after that game as anyone but its a long season and I am not giving up on this team or coaching staff anytime soon. We have some weaknesses(interior defense vs big bodies) but I still think we can do some god things this year and will be fun to watch.
In terms of this year, it kind of depends on what the goal was. In terms of an at-large bid to the NIT (or NCAA), than this year is over now. This team was never going to compete with Nevada for a regular season title either way, so the top end goals are basically done.

Every game counts, so there is still plenty to play for, but I think in general when you have a veteran squad with 4 seniors (and 2 juniors) in your top 7 players, you should at least be targeting a NIT berth.

We aren't the type of program that is going to compete for a NCAA berth every year, but I think we need to be on a cycle where we compete every 3-4 years as a group develops and becomes upperclassmen. We saw it in 2014-15 with the Nance/Adams group. That group wouldn't have earned an at-large bid, but they were definitely competing for one until Nance got Mono (and of course, they came though and won the MWCT).

We had rebuilding years in 2015-16 and 2016-17 and should have seen things move forward this year, but it just hasn't happened. Still a lot to play for, every game counts and we could still at least have a winning season if we improve, but from a big picture perspective not sure where this program is really headed.

Schroyer taught us that things could always be worse, so I appreciate the relative competitiveness of the current team, but was hoping for more.
Well I guess its time to pack it in then. I didn't know that an early game against DU was the game the entire season hinged on. I get it this is a bad loss but by the end of the year this loss is not going to be the one thing standing between us and a NCAA bid. Nevada was as big of favorite to win the conference before this game as it is now.
This game changes nothing for me. Nevada is still the major favorites to win the conference but I want and expect to compete in the conference with a experienced team. I expect us to be in the top 3 or 4 and who knows maybe end up knocking off Nevada. Not likely to knock them off before the DU game and not likely to happen afterwards. But I expect us to give it a run and I look forward to seeing how we match up with the conference.

To me nothing changed after the game. We are still a good team with the same flaws we always had. I can't remember a time we haven't struggled in Clune. Last time we were there we didn't hit 1 three pointer. Its nothing new. The thing that bugs me the most from the game was Dalton's refusal to try something different and continuing to jack up 3's.

I am not trying to attack anyone or anything like that. I too have really high expectations for this team. I think they have the talent and the pieces to be very good so last night was very frustrating to watch but one awful game is not enough for me to change my mind on the potential of this team. If we fall apart and loss a couple more games like this one then I will have to change my mind.
Nothing may have changed for you, but our RPI sure did. It dropped 68 spots to 98 overnight. That most definitely takes us out of an NCAA at large situation.
Well sure our RPI took a massive hit. Its early in the season. By the end of the year, the effect of this game won't have such a massive effect of our RPI. The loss definitely hurt and is a mark against us but it won't be the one thing keeping us from getting an at large bid. If that game is indicative of how we play for the rest of the year then we don't have to worry about any post season let alone a NCAA bid. If we finish OOC undefeated then have a great conference season we will see what happens, I don't know if our schedule is tough enough to get a bid even if we had won last night so I agree the loss hurts our RPI but over the course of the season there are lots of chances to make it better.

Plus the RPI isn't really used for selection at all. We need wins vs top 50 teams.Beat Drake on Saturday and get back on track then if we can pull of an upset in SC(very tough order) and everything last night will be forgiven.
Very good point about the RPI. Really less and less of a factor each year. Alternative ranking systems (KenPom, etc.), Top 50 wins, and P5 bias are all significant factors.
That’s true about RPI, still though pick whatever metric you want. None look good for the Pokes. Really our at large chances probably died against Cincy, not last night. We would have needed a signature OOC win with our schedule and that was it.
User avatar
GetRealMan
Ranch Hand
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:16 pm

A few more rebounds, free throws, and chip shots would have changed the outcome. As crappy as we played we were still in it to the end, kinda. We actually should have been blown out if it wasn't for the turnover margin.
From a fan's perspective it seems simple.

* Stop running away from offensive rebounds, nasty habits die hard, thank you Larry Shyatt.
* Adams and JJ notwithstanding, work the ball inside, risk is worth the reward (at the foul line).
* Dalton, please just stop shooting from the arc after, say, 10-12 consecutive misses.
* At least attempt a give and go, a screen cut or two, an alley oop, a floater, a fade away, a jump
hook, or half of one.
* Inside passing. Really miss the good old days when we dunked the ball.
* Finally, if we play zone...we'll, just don't. We can't. We're slow.
Me, I'm spiritually retarded, I need to be knee deep in water with a fly rod in my hands, that's about as close to God as I get.
"Steve Earle"
Post Reply