Offensive crossroads: who's right, old Burman or current Burman

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ragtimejoe1
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Last year we were 25th ranked O with more talent on O than I've seen in loooong time. This year was abysmal even with a first round QB. When thinking of the O and how it might progress, I often think back to the quotes when DC was hired. Interesting how much we shift with each hire and only time will tell. Which Burman is right regarding the requirements to sustain a consistently good O? Old Burman or current Burman.

http://billingsgazette.com/sports/wyomi ... 11d42.html

"I've had conversations with coach Roach and coach Tiller in the last couple of weeks about Wyoming and they both emphasized to me that Wyoming needs something unique to be successful," Burman said.

"We just can't be a downhill running football team to be successful," Burman said.
WYO1016 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
Insults are the last resort of fools with a crumbling position.
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fromolwyoming
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Well, if we stopped having Woods, who would work better as a WR or TE, run up the middle and instead have Overstreet do it, we would have more success in the run game. Like just about every time we handed the ball off to him in games. Or not running a QB power straight into 5 defenders 3 times in a row.
ELKMT
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poop play calling is poop play calling. That being said Vigen does good with with talent. If the talent is limited (2016 had 4 NFL caliber players on offense vs 1 in 2017) than Vigen struggles. Is it easier to get spread players or pro style (that's the question?).
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fromolwyoming
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marcuswyo wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:03 pm poop play calling is poop play calling. That being said Vigen does good with with talent. If the talent is limited (2016 had 4 NFL caliber players on offense vs 1 in 2017) than Vigen struggles. Is it easier to get spread players or pro style (that's the question?).
I seem to recall a similar discussion last year in regards to the defense. People were throwing out how they thought the 4-3 would never work, and should go to the 3-4, 4-2-5, or 3-3-5. Or even more "unique" defenses because they were "unique", and supposedly, that's all that works at Wyoming. Yet, this last season, with the 4-3, we had a top 30 defense, and the best scoring defense in the conference once we got a DC that knew what he was doing. With practically the same players as last year, barring only a couple of players.

So, spread, pro, triple option, run and shoot, etc. It doesn't matter if the play calling sucks, for lack of a better, overarching, term. Last year, we had Allen, 3 great catchers, and a bull for a RB that plowed through everyone. With an o-line anchored by a senior that never let a guy get past him. Their ability often made up for the play calling. This season, we only had the QB. And it showed in most of the games. Dropping passes, running routes well short of the 1st down line when we needed it, having Woods as starting RB even when Overstreet showed he was the better option...
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LanderPoke
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I think most on here know how I feel about Vigen. I was praying that the 10th assistant coach was going to be an "offensive consultant" or something like that. But, no, Gordie Haug got promoted, which is OK, but sure as hell isn't going to make our offense any better next year.

If we suck again on offense next year (which is almost a lock at this point) and Bohl doesn't fire Vigen I will self-immolate.
TA Ranch
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You whiners and complainers after back to back winning seasons and bowl games are a complete joke. You should head north to Ram land where you belong. Boho and staff are working on the offense in particular. We will have depth and a very improved program. True cowboy fans support the staff. Get on board
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Asmodeanreborn
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TA Ranch wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:55 pm True cowboy fans support the staff.
True fans understand that discussion involves allowing a difference in opinion as sports fandom isn't fascism.
Our offense was one of the worst 5 in the entire FBS last season with Josh at the helm. Our defense was amazing. It's not entirely unreasonable to ask questions about our offense, especially after they got owned by San Jose State.
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TA Ranch wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:55 pm You whiners and complainers after back to back winning seasons and bowl games are a complete joke. You should head north to Ram land where you belong. Boho and staff are working on the offense in particular. We will have depth and a very improved program. True cowboy fans support the staff. Get on board
So, so much what the f-word in just one comment
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J-Rod
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I mean, these things are not mutually exclusive. One can very much believe that things are muuuuuch better off with Bohl and also wonder if the 2017 team (or offense, really) left something on the table.
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joshvanklomp
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If you want to drastically change the offensive philosophy you're gonna have to fire Bohl.

If you're the guy who wants to fire the guy who snapped the 30-year drought of consecutive 8-win seasons (and 19-year drought of consecutive 6-win seasons) in favor of a more "unique" offense, more power to ya!

I'll take winning over a unique offense any day of the week.
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303cowboy
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Maybe our "unique" feature can be something like a dominant O-Line?
ragtimejoe1
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TA Ranch wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:55 pm You whiners and complainers after back to back winning seasons and bowl games are a complete joke. You should head north to Ram land where you belong. Boho and staff are working on the offense in particular. We will have depth and a very improved program. True cowboy fans support the staff. Get on board

Whose whining? Simple question regarding the man who runs WYO athletics. Which of his visions is correct? Same man, 2 different philosophies.

You sound like someone who also supported Stanard. Pretty obvious he was a problem.

Read my other posts. Full support of Bohl. However, this staff isn't the first to struggle finding linemen to run this type of O.
WYO1016 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
Insults are the last resort of fools with a crumbling position.
ragtimejoe1
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J-Rod wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:20 pm I mean, these things are not mutually exclusive. One can very much believe that things are muuuuuch better off with Bohl and also wonder if the 2017 team (or offense, really) left something on the table.
After Stanard's last season, remember some on this board suggested giving him a raise :rofl:
WYO1016 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
Insults are the last resort of fools with a crumbling position.
NowherePoke
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TA Ranch wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:55 pm You whiners and complainers after back to back winning seasons and bowl games are a complete joke. You should head north to Ram land where you belong. Boho and staff are working on the offense in particular. We will have depth and a very improved program. True cowboy fans support the staff. Get on board
I can't quite figure out this post.

North?

Boho? Is that some type of cyborg that is half Craig Bohl and half Mike Bobo? Might work.
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Wicks
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ragtimejoe1 wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:36 pm"I've had conversations with coach Roach and coach Tiller in the last couple of weeks about Wyoming and they both emphasized to me that Wyoming needs something unique to be successful," Burman said.

"We just can't be a downhill running football team to be successful," Burman said.
The quotes above are true but you have to put them in the proper context.

Burman hired DC to run the spread because it was "unique" and different. Problem is at that very same time 75% of college football was moving to the spread as well.

When DC flamed out and Burman hired Bohl who runs a pro-style offense the Wyoming offense in just the span of 3-5 years is now unique again because the spread is what is used in CFB and Wyoming is now running a pro-style offense.

I would say the past 2 seasons have proven we are on the right track.
NowherePoke
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joshvanklomp wrote: Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:29 am If you want to drastically change the offensive philosophy you're gonna have to fire Bohl.

If you're the guy who wants to fire the guy who snapped the 30-year drought of consecutive 8-win seasons (and 19-year drought of consecutive 6-win seasons) in favor of a more "unique" offense, more power to ya!

I'll take winning over a unique offense any day of the week.
I personally like the current philosophy (but I liked Shyatt too, so I am weird). However, when talking about Bohl's record, it must be viewed in context.

Go take a closer look at Wyoming's 2004-2007 teams under Glenn and the 93-99 teams under Tiller and Dimel. Several bowl eligible teams that didn't actually get a bowl invite due to the different bowl structure back then (especially the 90's teams).

I don't mind anyone saying Bohl is doing a good job, because he is! But, trying to diminish what previous UW teams did in an effort to promote the current coach does not sit well with me. So we won 8 games two years in a row? That was helped tremendously by being able to play in a bowl game. Look at the records from 96-99:

10-2
7-6
8-3
7-4

Do you know how many bowls those teams played in? Zero. That's because the bowl system was a different setup. You can't tell me the current run of 8-6, 8-5 is somehow superior to those teams. Those teams played tougher competition and were competitive against upper level opponents. The 96 team lost in the conference title game, but they lost at the very end to a Top 10 team on a neutral field, not to a marginal SDSU team at the WAR.

The 97 team went 7-6, which included a close-ish loss (24-10) at a Top 10 Ohio State team, a heartbreaking last second loss to a Top 20 CU team in Boulder (20-19), and a dominating victory over a lower tier Big 12 team (56-10 over Iowa State). Compare that to the OOC opponents we played this year.

The 98 team went 8-3, which included a 7 point loss at a ranked Georgia team (Champ Bailey era Georgia) and a 7 point loss to a ranked AFA team. They did have one terrible game to finish the season against Tulsa which I will never get over, but still. On balance, a much superior team to this year.

The 99 team went 7-4, but beat a ranked AFA team in Colorado Springs, a huge win at home over a ranked BYU team (one of my personal favorite college memories, goalposts came down and took the trip to the Buck), and again a mystery terrible loss at the end of the season. Still, overall a far superior team to this year.

Sorry, I am not buying anything about our current run being the best in 30 years.

Now, Glenn's 2004-2007 era is more debatable. Those teams never really came close to winning the conference the way Bohl's 2016 team did, and they were on the receiving end of some serious beatdowns at the hands of TCU/Utah/BYU. OTOH, they had quite a few more quality wins (UCLA, Ole Miss twice, UVA in dominating fashion, Utah in 2006, etc.) and consistently played tougher schedules than Bohl's teams.

Sagarin Ratings:

98: 43 (not available before this)
99: 45


2004: 49
2005: 82
2006: 72
2007: 85

2016: 78
2017: 73


The impact of the weak SOS we play now can be seen here.
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LanderPoke
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joshvanklomp wrote: Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:29 am If you want to drastically change the offensive philosophy you're gonna have to fire Bohl.

If you're the guy who wants to fire the guy who snapped the 30-year drought of consecutive 8-win seasons (and 19-year drought of consecutive 6-win seasons) in favor of a more "unique" offense, more power to ya!

I'll take winning over a unique offense any day of the week.
Not sure why this has to be the case
ragtimejoe1
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Wicks wrote: Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:34 am
ragtimejoe1 wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:36 pm"I've had conversations with coach Roach and coach Tiller in the last couple of weeks about Wyoming and they both emphasized to me that Wyoming needs something unique to be successful," Burman said.

"We just can't be a downhill running football team to be successful," Burman said.
The quotes above are true but you have to put them in the proper context.

Burman hired DC to run the spread because it was "unique" and different. Problem is at that very same time 75% of college football was moving to the spread as well.

When DC flamed out and Burman hired Bohl who runs a pro-style offense the Wyoming offense in just the span of 3-5 years is now unique again because the spread is what is used in CFB and Wyoming is now running a pro-style offense.

I would say the past 2 seasons have proven we are on the right track.
Again, I like Bohl. Since his hire, I had 2 concerns. 1 was Stanard and 1 was the O because of our past challenges of getting linemen. Though i do trust Bohl, the latter remains a concern.

If I remember correctly, Burman's comments were more reflective of recruiting challenges at WYO vs what type of offenses the rest of the country does.
The spread attempts to minimize talent discrepancies. I'm not advocating going to the spread per se, just wondering which of Burman's philosophies are true.

My personal opinion is that the offense needs tweaked OR we will need 5 or so NFL-level guys (especially at skill positions) + a couple other real solid guys.
WYO1016 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
Insults are the last resort of fools with a crumbling position.
ragtimejoe1
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Fantastic post by Nowhere. Glenn's MWC was more similar (stress closer to not same as) to the current low level P5 conference than the current MWC.
WYO1016 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
Insults are the last resort of fools with a crumbling position.
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WestWYOPoke
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LanderPoke wrote: Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:04 am
joshvanklomp wrote: Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:29 am If you want to drastically change the offensive philosophy you're gonna have to fire Bohl.

If you're the guy who wants to fire the guy who snapped the 30-year drought of consecutive 8-win seasons (and 19-year drought of consecutive 6-win seasons) in favor of a more "unique" offense, more power to ya!

I'll take winning over a unique offense any day of the week.
Not sure why this has to be the case
I think he's saying because Bohl is the reason our offense if the way it is. As long as he is HC, the offense will be a run-first, pro-style attack. Sure, you can tweak a few things here and there, but for the most part our O philosophy is set in stone regardless of who the OC is.
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